Zero Punctuation: Dark Souls

[[REDACTED]]

Spoiler

But Yahtzee, you didn't realize. The story of killing Gwyn to save the world and relight the fire is A LIE!!.

SPOILER THAT SHIT.

OT: Glad to see that Yahtzee liked it. It seemed like the sort of thing that would be right up his alley, so I was surprised by his earlier Extra Punctuation on it. I wonder if he would change his opinion on Demon'sssss Souls in retrospect.

Edit:

And how does the ability to pause break immersion? Never once have I ever heard anybody complain about a pause game breaking immersion?

I understand why you don't like Dark Souls, but this actually comes up fairly often. For instance

Spoiler

I've never really liked it when you can go into the menu and use buffs, potions, food, or whatnot and have no time pass in the game. In my mind that really does break my immersion with the world.

You can allow the player to pause without allowing them any in-game action. System Shock did it just fine; there's no reason for Dark Souls not to allow such an option when playing offline.

 

[MrDumpkins]

[b/]SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE[/b]

I hate dark souls for the simple fact that you can't pause. Fuck whoever thought that was a good design decision.

I can agree with this.

It's like the designers at FROM have never had to take a piss in their entire lives.

That was one of my most intense moments in dark souls, I had to go to the bathroom while in the lower undead burg, and as I stopped all the assassins busted out through the door, had to fight them but I ran towards all the flame undead, 10 minutes later they were all dead and I got to have the most satisfying piss of my life. That moment could have never happened if there was a pause.

 

[chiggerwood]

And how does the ability to pause break immersion? Never once have I ever heard anybody complain about a pause game breaking immersion?

I understand why you don't like Dark Souls, but this actually comes up fairly often. For instance

Spoiler

I've never really liked it when you can go into the menu and use buffs, potions, food, or whatnot and have no time pass in the game. In my mind that really does break my immersion with the world.

Snrrrrk! Yeah I can see how that can break immersion, I'm just asking for a way to pause the action so I don't needlessly die. I don't mind it if a game makes it nigh impossible to use buffs or healing items in battle, hell to me that's preferable. I'm tired of no challenge RPGs where you're guaranteed to win and be the hero of the day all the while being the most awesomest, most powerful person to ever live ever. Incidentally if anyone knows of such an RPG please tell me what it is... as long as I can pause.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Summed up while I like Dark Souls. The world and the lore were just incredible.

But God DAMMIT I could not get far in that game. While everyone else loved the difficulty and was able to eventually breeze through it, I could not get the hang of it. I guess I built my character wrong or something, but I agree that the intro could have been a bit more forgiving. I tried and tried and tried, but eventually I realized it just wasn't worth the stress the game was causing me. I keep thinking that I'll go back to it one day...

Dark Souls II is looking pretty fun, and hearing that it's been adjusted for new players gives me hope that maybe I'll be able to get the hang of this one.

 

[Cybylt]

You would think you didn't fight well, not that "OH! This sheep is obviously ten levels higher than me! I should go find that secret passage no-one ever mentioned and take the stupid dirt path out of town, not the paved road the game started me on!"

Somehow I don't think that would sell very well...

Look, I realize that I'm one of the smug assholes that Yahtzee warned everyone about, but, as I indicated in my last post and several other people have, finding those skeletons was specifically NOT the "paved road the game started me on." In fact, to find them, you have to go hunting around through the buildings and completely ignore the stairs leading UP from the spot where you started next to the guy who tells you that your first objective is UP.

The stupid dirt path (amusingly, it actually IS dirt at first, as opposed to the nicely formed stairs to the burg) is actually the one that leads to the newbie destroying skeletons.

The comment is a more than a little misleading to people who haven't played the game because it actually suggests that the path to the Catacombs, through the skeletons, is clearly the intended path. It isn't. It's not even visible from where the game drops you off after the Asylum, whereas the path to the Burg is clearly visible, about 20 feet away and the guy staring you in the face says something about going up to ring a bell.

Don't forget the fact that when you're dropped off in the area you start up looking straight at the path to the burg or a guy who tells you to go "up" after a cutscene that pans over the cliff trail.

 

[Bosque]

Lobsters have two claws, you should only need one. If you're on a budget that is.

 

[Diablo2000]

But Yahtzee, you didn't realize.

Spoiler

The story of killing Gwyn to save the world and relight the fire is A LIE!!.

Spoiler

It's kinda not, the abyss is a far worse alternative than lighting the fire. Lighting the fire is a kinda pointless since the abyss will spread anyway once the fire light out again, but at least stop it for some time.

 

[LastDarkness]

The part about the "Game seemed to be scaled to someone twenty feet tall" is part of the atmosphere because the normal race of the dark souls world and the "gods" are giants. Human were a pygmy type of race in Dark Souls. This is really evident in the city of Anor Londo where the steps and enviroment is built to two differant scales side by side.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Okay, I really have to get back to this game. I bought it when it first came out knowing nothing about it and saying "oh hey, this is apparently really good. I'll try it." I very quickly discovered there is no "trying" with Dark Souls. You have to give it your full attention, or do what I did - Say "fuck this" and trade it in. Kept the art book though. Love the art.

Lack of a pause button is fucking stupid though.

Wait, WHAT?! How is a game released nowadays without a PAUSE feature? It must be the work of Yahtzee's most hated game designer, the one he calls Pillock!

 

[Alarien]

Summed up while I like Dark Souls. The world and the lore were just incredible.

But God DAMMIT I could not get far in that game. While everyone else loved the difficulty and was able to eventually breeze through it, I could not get the hang of it. I guess I built my character wrong or something, but I agree that the intro could have been a bit more forgiving. I tried and tried and tried, but eventually I realized it just wasn't worth the stress the game was causing me. I keep thinking that I'll go back to it one day...

Dark Souls II is looking pretty fun, and hearing that it's been adjusted for new players gives me hope that maybe I'll be able to get the hang of this one.

Couple tips to make it easier:

1) Make sure you're playing with a controller. I suggest the Xbox controller. I hate the PS3 controller (great in 1996/98, not so much in 2014). I play now on PC so a controller there is required. Console I guess would depend on your console.

2) Read some guides and do not feel bad about it. Dark Souls isn't a game that you have to play blind unless you really just want to claim some sort of pseudo-ironman bullshit.

3) Replay the opening tutorial section. Delete. Repeat. Delete. Repeat. Get it to where you can breeze through it in about 3 minutes or less. It will get you really used to the movement controls and some of the basic game mechanics.

4) Get a light/medium shield and practice blocking and parrying on the undead on the way up to the burg. Clear them several times. Get used to the timing of block, parry, and dodge on basic enemies and you'll be more comfortable with the timing on others.

5) Jump back and forth between the burg path from Firelink and the lower section of the bridge/aquaduct before you enter (where you can see the corpse with the shining loot object). It will get you used to dash/jump timing.

6) Drake Sword. (Shoot the tail of the Hellkite Wyvern (the big red dragon thing) until it falls off). Not my favorite weapon, or one I used, but it is overpowered for when it is obtainable and will make things a lot easier.

7) Use Hellkite Wyvern (see above) at the bridge to get a lot of early easy exp. Once you get to this point and unlock the shortcut/ladder to that first bonfire, just go up onto the bridge and as soon as you hear a rumble, run back down inside. Hellkite will torch all the undead on the bridge and you get free exp. Rest at the bonfire and rinse/repeat for a little while.

General tips:

Blind corners are not your friend. Ever. Assume any corner you can't see around has an enemy hiding there. Step in/roll back immediately. Never run blindly into a hallway, room, or alley you can't see completely.

Watch the ground. Watch ahead of you. Traps are *really* obvious in this game. You just have to watch for pressure plates or giant boulders that happen to be sitting around on some incline above you.

Poise: Your ability to resist knockback/stagger on damage. Low poise means you'll be pushed back more by blocked attacks and your attack/casting is more likely to be interrupted. High poise means you'll be able to attack through being hit. Very good in PVP, but has its uses in PVE.

Shield stability: The higher a shield's stability, the less endurance it requires to block an attack. A shield with 100% physical damage resistance and high stability can fully block MOST of the physical attacks from most of the game's monsters, including bosses, with minimal endurance requirement. The Greatshield of Artorius (requires Sif's Soul) is the best turtling shield in the game, in my opinion, if that style of gameplay appeals to you (I prefer blocking to rolling, personally). If you want a solid turtling shield, use Sif's soul for this on your first playthrough. Do not get one of the two sword options, especially not the "True" Greatsword of Artorius, which is only really effective at around level 200+. At least the cursed version of the Greatsword can hit ghosts...

Get to know "movesets" of each of the weapons you run across. There is a lot out there about DPS, sustained, single-hit and other weapon stats, but what really should matter is if you and a weapon's attacks just sorta "click." On my first PC playthrough (after a couple plays through on XBox360), I discovered the Black Knight Halberd. For me, it owned PVE (sucks in PVP btw). Practice each one around Firelink.

Balance the weight of your equipment. Above 50% of your weight capacity, your character will "fatroll." It's kinda awful. At less than 50%, you will "midroll" which is significantly better, but still is a bit slow to recover. At less than 25% (and in a couple increments to 0%) you will "fast roll," which allows you to dodge/roll several times quickly to avoid damage and get out of dodge. Find what works for you and balance the weight of your equipment around that. There is a reason a lot of players are seen practically naked. Having really powerful heavy armor isn't necessarily what will work best for you. Personally, I'm a mid-roller.

Some quick thoughts (relatively) that help explain some of the game's more odd mechanics.

 

[Lazule]

For everyone here thinking that Yahtzee is a double standards bigot, that he was paid by Form Soft, and other stupid theories. Please abstain from posting those commentaries.

He will explain everything in Extra Punctuation.

I think he didn't got Demon's Souls because of the same reason he didn't got Dark Souls at first, the thing is that he gave Dark Souls ANOTHER chance. This pretty much says whats the "problem" about Demon's and Dark Souls... Its not an easy game to get into for new (blind) players, so they typically drop it.

But if you look into the game Dark Souls has many of the elements Yahtzee praises: Metroidvania style world, good mechanics, a story/lore that isn't told directly, looks gorgeous enough and has challenge (probably way too much for new players wanting to play it blind). Again, just wait for Extra Punctuation.

 

[Nico4]

I'm actually very surprised that he ended up liking it... Good thing though, the game is amazing.

 

[Mr C]

don't get me started on the fucking gargoyle bosses on the roof of the undead church (or wherever it was)....

That boss reminded me of Maneater from Demon's Souls, so I was waiting for the second one. I managed to scrape a win on my first attempt with 3HP left. I almost screwed it up because so little health makes the bar look empty. Thinking I was dead, I stood like a ninny for 2 seconds, don't know how I didn't die!!!

My most hated is the bloody Capra Demon.

 

[Saika Renegade]

I would gladly play an underwater version of this game where all the involved parties are some kind of shark. Imagine the combination of atmospheric depression and atmospheric compression, livened up by all the teeth.

More seriously, yes, Dark Souls is hard, but it's been a fair sort of hard. It's also internally consistent in regards to how it judges the gameplay input--if you're some sort of shameless nutcase like myself who thinks weird vantage points on enemies and enough arrows to shame every Huntsman sniper on the server is a strategy, it actually lets you do so, which I appreciated.

 

[Pebkio]

I actually don't consider Dark Souls to be harder than, say, the original Doom. It's just more unforgiving. I don't even need a very stable shield. In fact, once I get the Grass Crest... I'm like: "Shield? What's that? You mean my backpack that drip feeds caffeine?"

Except the Four Kings starting on New Game + and further. That fight is damned unfair.

 

[Rabidkitten]

But Yahtzee, you didn't realize.

Spoiler

The story of killing Gwyn to save the world and relight the fire is A LIE!!.

Spoiler

It's kinda not, the abyss is a far worse alternative than lighting the fire. Lighting the fire is a kinda pointless since the abyss will spread anyway once the fire light out again, but at least stop it for some time.

Spoiler

While its this is all certainly open to interpretation as with most of the story in Dark Souls. There is nothing stating that by not lighting the flame that the world will be consumed by the abyss. This dialogue with Kaathe is a stong case that lighting the flames pretty much sides with Gwyn and fucks humanity.

"Hmm? You are astonishing.
The truth I shall share without sentiment.
After the advent of fire, the ancient lords found the three souls.
But your progenitor found a fourth, unique soul.
The Dark Soul.
Your ancestor claimed the Dark Soul and waited for Fire to subside.
And soon, the flames did fade, and only Dark remained.
Thus began the age of men, the Age of Dark.
However?
Lord Gwyn trembled at the Dark.
Clinging to his Age of Fire, and in dire fear of humans,
and the Dark Lord who would one day be born amongst them,
Lord Gwyn resisted the course of nature.
By sacrificing himself to link the fire, and commanding his children to shepherd the humans,
Gwyn has blurred your past, to prevent the birth of the Dark Lord.
I am the primordial serpent.
I seek to right the wrongs of the past to discover our true Lord.
But the other serpent, Frampt, lost his sense, and befriended Lord Gwyn.
Undead warrior, we stand at the crossroad.
Only I know the truth about your fate.
You must destroy the fading Lord Gwyn, who has coddled Fire and resisted nature,
and become the Fourth Lord, so that you may usher in the Age of Dark! "

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

It's nice to see people pointing out that it wasn't necessarily the difficulty that made Dark Souls enjoyable. Once I got past some initial grinding and shamelessly wikied the basic mechanics and arbitrary quest lines, the underlying narrative was able to draw me in.

And don't get me started on the fucking gargoyle bosses on the roof of the undead church (or wherever it was)...

Summon Solaire and apply the lightning powder.

Boom, boss fight over.

Which is where instructions for summoning would have been nice. Those things minced me a dozen times before I looked up that humanity was more than a cosmetic.

Agreed.

I had a friend nearby when I started playing, so I got lucky.

[b/]SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE[/b]

I hate dark souls for the simple fact that you can't pause. Fuck whoever thought that was a good design decision.

I can agree with this.

It's like the designers at FROM have never had to take a piss in their entire lives.

That was one of my most intense moments in dark souls, I had to go to the bathroom while in the lower undead burg, and as I stopped all the assassins busted out through the door, had to fight them but I ran towards all the flame undead, 10 minutes later they were all dead and I got to have the most satisfying piss of my life. That moment could have never happened if there was a pause.

Once I realized you could quite and the game would save exactly the spot you were standing in, I never had to worry about it.

And regardless of your enjoyable experience, it's still a poorly thought out mechanic overall.

 

[leviadragon99]

Huh, quite the about-face from his Demon's souls review, though he brings up some fair points as to issues with getting into it.