Eh, I like DCUO. Never played an MMO before save the first six levels of WoW which I still rate as one of my best decisions ever, (i.e. to stop playing.)
I don't know much about the DC universe so I didn't really notice the shameless promotion of it's beloved, (I guess,) superheroes and villains, if it was there to be hurt I hurt it. And in doing that i did have quite a bit of fun. I know Yahtzee didn't like the combat much but with my only other MMO experience being WoW where the combat is click-to-engage-target 2... 2... 3... 2... 2... 4... 1... victory... I actually found the combo-based combat a lot more rewarding. When you were beating someone up it actually felt like you were beating them up.
Character customisation was... look it was okay, to be honest I was expecting more and given it's a superhero game and the oportunities are pretty much endless it did seem very light. I wanted a character of mine to look very cheep and home made and wanted to give him a crappy scarf-with-holes-in mask and a bandanna covering his mouth. I don't expect the designers to look into my head and see what I want but c'mon, that's pretty standard stuff isn't it? And yeah, there's the opportunity to pick up more stuff later and play around with your look but I don't really see why it wasn't expanded on in the creation scheme. Especially considering they included four fucking furry skins.
Negativity aside I do like DCUO - I just don't think it'll last, which is a shame really. There's obviously been a lot of effort put into it, it's fully voice acted from levels 1-30, (after that things get a little patchy but is still on the whole pretty good,) it looks good, the combat is fun, (for me,) and although it does exhibit the MMO "kill/gather x number of guys/items" there is a bit of shaking up to the formular which works very well. It also has the dual roles of performing for the DC fans and informing those ignorant about the considerably warped and fucked-up universe, which it does fairly well.
I suppose it depends how you approach it. I went into it with a cautious but pretty positive outlook and found myself pretty happy with it. However if you approach it with serious doubt then there's certainly a lot to scrutinise. I hope it gets the chance though, I mean WoW has been going for what, six-seven years now, and and the start it certainly had numerous issues which it's had time to sort out.
I interest in this game was only very fleeting. I came to the conclusion that it would most likely be boring and repetetive with no real engaging elements.
No, actually. Does it matter? I'm just expressing my opinion. These types of games just aren't my thing. And I don't have the sheer amount of time to invest into full time gaming anymore anyway. I'll only buy something if I really think it's going to be a truly amazing game. As such, the new games I've bought in the last few years have been few and far between.
True. Among other things about the assumption I dubbed your last answer a rage-post BECAUSE OF the Capslock. The general writing style, content and overused "I need to defend my franchise"-arguments earned you that. The Capslock is merely one of those petty little annoyances one can rag on about.
Though admittedly the "emphasis"-explanation surprised. Usually I expect the words "sarcasm" or "irony" appear in those cop-outs, along the dramatic "I can't believe I have to explain that"-lament. Neither of those are very convincing, mind you, but at least it was unexpected.
And btw Nice Burn against that snide little "So yeah" comment. What the heck was I thinking? There is no way I should have dared to cross ideas with you and feel like I could type something as relaxed and possibly snarky as "So Yeah" and I'll be darned if you didnt call me out on it!
What to say, I like to put my eye for detail and my experience to use. And I dare to say that this "little comment" shows anything but relaxation.
No really, I've never played much CoX (or CO at all), but upon entry, I would assume one Superhero ....it seems as if some of these limitations are all in your head.
Well, if you wish I could start talking about that and many more aspects that reek to me of terrible decision-making. Yes, I too never got much into the whole Superhero-MMOG-Scene, simply because even CoH was too much of those spandex-heroes for me. But this is really a point where I completely disagree with your argumentation, that a similar....foundation for the setting's background equals an almost identical game.
Like I said, from a game designers perspective they just did way too little too late to stand out. And as I will point out later in another context, for me, the time it was okay to accept all and any bullshit is over. I'm not accepting such shallow excuses like "Well, the other guys did this as well" anymore and in retrospect, the entire gaming community should never have.
And as I stated before, I'm aware, that DC in particular is limited (partly by default, partly by self-caused impotence)in terms of treading new ground, but that only shows the lack of foresight and timing on their part and would even moreso ask for something special, which would make one WANT to play the actual game.
And no, "Batman's in it" doesn't count as such.
...if you cant suspend disbelief for comicbook videogames, then maybe you are in the wrong isle. Not trying to be a prick, but like I said, maybe a Flight Simulation or something would be more up your alley (yes that was me reattempting snarkiness, not very well done. Sorry).
Yes, standardized cop-out Nr. chooseanumber. The infamous "suspense of disbelief". Time for a little trip.
I don't know what the original one went like or where it came from, but there's a saying that roughly goes along the lines of "Too much of anything is bad for you".
With that in mind, let me tell you a little about a famous DC-character I actually know nigh to nothing about: The Green lantern, aka that funny guy that somehow completely went past me without me noticing.
So far I figured out that Green Lantern isn't just one guy, but many guys, the green lantern corps. Wether they are some sort of lineage or if there are several green lanterns at a time, I don't know. They get their powers from a ring. Where does that ring come from, why does it give those power and how did this corps got it? I don't know. The rings power manifests in the ability to create anything the wielder can imagine in the form of "green energy". How exactly does that work, why, under which conditions? Not a clue.
I COULD ask hundreds of question, actually question the whole thing. But I don't I don't want to. Because it gives me a fictional framework, I can follow. If people use magic, I don't necessarily ask how exactly the scientific process of casting spells works. That's your suspense of disbelief. There's a youtube-video where Robert McKee talk about creative limitation. Fits here perfectly and if you have any interest in storytelling of any sort at all, I'd advise to watch at least that vid.
Now let's return to said trailer. Honestly, I don't even want to pick it apart bit by bit unless someone actually demands it, since it'd be a lot of text. The point is ultimately, that within this game and the trailer in particular we are no longer just asked to suspend our disbelief, they just toss so much stuff at us in a short time that is just so inexplicably nonsensical, it's more like "Ah, hell, do whatever you want, I stopped paying attention."
And that's were we cross from the paradise of immersing into a supernatural world into the downtrotten slum of lazy writing.
Oh and actually that flightsimulator-burn? First and only of your attempts in this matter so far I found interesting.
You're argument about the artistic choice for the intro movie is a little skewed. I mean the were trying to illustrate...
the death of many of their favourite characters of fiction
...and you are faulting them for being cinematic and gritty about doing so. And then you can hold your nose high and smirk at all the people who are enjoying the "designed-by-commitee" cinema which isn't avant-garde enough for your high brow tastes.
Actually, the DEATHS of those heroes were the only thing they didn't make gritty.
Green Arrow? Lies there, as a part of the landscape, for a few seconds.
Gigantess? Appears and drops dead.
Metallo? Gets cut into pieces by a probably batshit bonkers Wonderwoman...and shows as much reaction to his mutilation as a toaster would.
Flash, Harley Quinn, Green Lantern, Cyborg and that witch. Somehow disappear unseen after completely uninteresting appearances. (with Flash being the biggest joke of them all)
Batman & Deathstroke? Disappear in an explosion in the background(!)
Wonderwoman? We see her pain-ridden face for about 0.8 seconds. Hey, at least something.
Black Adam? See my first post in this thread.
And finally Superman? Spear through chest, done, camera positioned in such a genius way that superman's face is buried in the lower right corner.
They're just making the setting and characterization gritty. Not to create drama or an atmosphere of tension, for that there just happens too much in a very short time. There's no weight to those heroes' death, they just make their appearances for the fans and then get tossed off-screen, like items on a checklist. It's just this typical scenario: Surveys probably showed that teens nowadays like "cool", gritty, punisher-like settings, so let's turn it into that. It's not really that I tried to apply my "high standards" on this trailer, it's rather that it's quality is so unbelievably low, it's basically nonexistant.
In that context, let's do a little experiment: Watch the current Star Wars: the old republic-cinematic. Then watch the DCOU-trailer again. Now watch both of them again, but under the condition that you "blend out" every information that you didn't gather through the video you just saw. That's right, don't make those guys' jobs easy by filling the gaps of the video with the knowledge you gathered by chance through your childhood (under the assumption it lays behind you of course). Just watch it as someone who looks for a new MMOG to play.
And now tell YOURSELF, did you just learn ANYTHING valuable about the game or the story, if so WHAT is it and would you be willing to ACCEPT what you were shown?
And about my behaviour towards the lemmings cheering for it, you're damn right about that. Because if I can't ask for better-quality entertainment with absolut conviction, I couldn't, in good conscience, expect the same from the industry and the rest of the community. It's one of those life-experience things:
Ever since a certain shooter-franchise came to be there was this dialogue:
Smart player: "Wow, [product x] is awful. It really is just mediocre at best. The flaws are so obvious, I could actually proove the poor quality scientifically."
Fratboy John: "Nah, dude, it's awesome!"
Smart Player: "What? What's awesome about it?"
Fratboy John: "Well, it's big fun."
Smart Player: "What's fun about it? Here, I can show you ten games, which are cheaper in prize and better than [project x] in any way. [Brings actual arguments].
Fratboy John: "Whatever. You just grumpy."
And Smart Player thought 'Ah well, if he enjoys blinky lights, why not let him?'.
The result: Any critique on unambitious or mediocre games got pushed aside as just being grumpy, Fratboy John multiplied by the millions and the industry spurts out one boring turd after another but sells it by the trillions because "it's fun".
And Smart Player's acceptance of that mindset left him stranded with about one exciting release every few years.
With that in mind, I think I'll stick to my attitude toward's people whose strongest and most complex argument is "it's fun."
I never said that you can't enjoy anything. I may have merely hinted at your need to relax, oh wise one.
Hey, you faceplanted yourself full speed with an attempt to burn me through the use of one of my own statements. Even lightened that faceplant up by doing it within a PS. And it would've been avoilable REALLY easily....by not reading and writing under he influence of high levels of adrenaline. Like, if you were....relaxed.
If you didn't see that one coming from a mile ago, I'd guess you're blind.
Ok check this out. Seeing as how THEY made the game (not us), in conjunction with the people who actually write the stories (wait for it)
They can introduce WHOEVER they want as the ultimate villain. It's their property.
Okay, seriously? Did you just actually bring up the lamest and...voidest cop-out in the history of...well...everything?
OF COURSE it's their property and OF COURSE they may do with it what they want. Stephanie Meyer is also allowed to write whatever she wants.
Me too, by the way. I can fill up my shit in little plastic bags. I can then try to sell my shit. I could even coerce people into paying 90 $ for my shit in plastic bags, because I put pictures of Superman and Wonderwoman on those bags. And there could be people going to internet forums, writing "Oh my god, Headbiter's shit is so amazing and cool and I'm so happy I gave him 90 $ for his shit and I'm so looking forward to shit 2".
And I could do all of this, because it's my shit and I can do with my shit whatever I want.
But at the end of the day it would still be nothing but shit. And the people who paid for it are ultimately nothing but some weird, easily satisfied guys with no standards who just paid a crapload of money for shit in bags...with pictures of Superman and Wonderwoman on it.
I too would like to see bigger and badder villains, and the ability to customize my character more, in terms of providing a history, about me section, etc etc.
I remember seeing the Star Wars trailer...so epic, so crips, so enticing...then I found out it was an MMO and realized that nothing in the trailer would be translated to gameplay exactly bahaha...sighh
I interest in this game was only very fleeting. I came to the conclusion that it would most likely be boring and repetetive with no real engaging elements.
No, actually. Does it matter? I'm just expressing my opinion. These types of games just aren't my thing. And I don't have the sheer amount of time to invest into full time gaming anymore anyway. I'll only buy something if I really think it's going to be a truly amazing game. As such, the new games I've bought in the last few years have been few and far between.
I was just being picky. I had figured seeing as how you concluded as opposed to assumed or surmised, that you actually played the game, and saw for a fact that it was boring and repetitive.
I will admit, there are repetitive parts in it, if you are forced to grind out missions over and over again to accumulate points for different tiered sets of armour. Heres for hoping that this months content update will fill that void. The makers promised monthly content updates, and this will be the first we'll get to see.
True. Among other things about the assumption I dubbed your last answer a rage-post BECAUSE OF the Capslock. The general writing style, content and overused "I need to defend my franchise"-arguments earned you that. The Capslock is merely one of those petty little annoyances one can rag on about.
So anyone that disagrees with you is attacking you? Hmm. And remind me how easy is it to discredit opposing arguments as a "cop-out"? Ironically (wink), it seems that cop-out is the choice to not do something. Much like your decision dismiss reasoning in defending your statements, instead opting to use phrases like cop-out. No I don't need to defend the franchise. Heck I dont care if you play it or not. However statements like
may be a little over the top. Many, many people are enjoying the game currently. A lot of people are still curious about it. And here you and your blanket statement "it's bad and shouldnt be bought" may actually lead some of the astray. Sure I'd had my own ideas about how the game would be when I first heard about it and envisioned it in my head. Sure not everything matched up 1to1 when I actually played the game, but for one, I had been playing some nice MMO gameplay, it had been over a year since my last online rpg (Demon Souls notwithstanding) and seeing how this one was Massive, and actiony, it's fitting the bill.
I dare to say that this "little comment" shows anything but relaxation.
Sorry to say it, but you're gonna end up taking that trip by yourself this time. I can't really follow you on that, seeing as how... well I dont really have a problem of them making some shit up about the Green Lanterns. I dont really care. Some comic booky stuff, fine. Whatever. As long as I can continue to lvl up. If the Lanterns and the Sinestros were out there armwrestling for dollars I couldn't care less (I was more of a Marvel fan anyways :-/ )
This is kind of a YMMV thing, and my personal suspension didnt have any problems assimilating to the game. Maybe yours did, and now you want to tell everyone not to purchase it, and I dont think thats fair. Either way, this where we are going to have to agree to disagree.
Hell, SOE could do whatever they wanted, I stopped paying attention after that righteous intro. I mainly wanted to hit the streets and get to stomping. So I guess, good job.
Time to create my character.
I usually revel the rpg player character creation process.
To that point, I will say I was let down by the initial character creator. Limitations in body-type options, no weight/mass sliders, the 3 female body types were pretty much all the same form, same ratios on the body parts, just different heights. I remember distinctly not having a problem with the weapons and powers available (although it looks like it's just dying for an expansion though, and expansion packs DLC economics is an entirely different conversation)
not to disrespect you or your argument, but ok, for the sake of brevity, you don't like the movie. I'm not going to make you like it. Ps I see where you are going with the shooter franchise thing, but that doesnt really apply here. I prefer Battlefield.
Hey, you faceplanted yourself full speed with an attempt to burn me through the use of one of my own statements
Of course I did. I welcome your opinion and your criticism. I was also trying to bait you into writing retorts, i guess you could say I was trolling (mildly).
With that in mind, I think I'll stick to my attitude toward's people whose strongest and most complex argument is "it's fun."
...in an debate about videogames, where entertainment is the objective. Not only that i'd guess its more of a subjective objective.
This goes back to your 'popular shooter' statements. even if I dont subscribe to the current popular trend, I'm not going to beat the next guy in the head because he likes that shooter and wants others to try it with him.
Sure if that's your thing.
Artists do this all the time. Pop Art? Post modern shit? Some people would say it's crap (abstract expressionism, if you're into art). Others would pay millions. There are subgenres of hip-hop that I wouldn't take a piss on if it were on fire, but yet they are going platinum (which still baffles me)
Now that just sounds venomous. The developers promised monthly content (and this can continue in a discussion for DLC if you like) and I still don't know if Penguin is in the game. If you are a DC fan, perhaps you could school me to some other big name baddies, the biggest DC one I know would be Darkseid (Doomsday is in the game already) The content this month will feature Catwoman, as well as a new Bane duo which (from what I heard) would be a pretty tough run.
One thing I never bothered to ask though, and now in hindsight this may prove to be relevant, as you said that you played for a couple of weaks before getting bored... were you playing on the PC or the PS3?
How they thought they could get away with a superhero based MMORPG with LESS character-generation options than City of Heroes is mind-boggling.
Once you get a cool feature like that there's no going back. It's like going from dating Jezebel the Wonder-Nympho to an accountant who only does handies once a week. Since the only cool aspect of the game is creating your own superhero, why wouldn't they allow you to actually create what you want?
Meh , the game is pretty fun , quite refreshing to have a MMO-button masher. PVE and PVP is really refreshing compared to other indirect combat MMOs. One problem with it burns itself out quite quick , as right now it doesn't have much content.
Never played City of heroes , so can't really compare it to anything else... But personally I'm having fun so far.
You've actually driven me to creating an account just so I can call you a twat. I don't mean to be rude or anything but this game has so many actual problems you could have made a point about instead of just picking random points to talk crap.
1. Yes, world of warcraft DID invent the concept of good vs evil.
2. The difference between CoH/CO and DCUO is that DCUO is actually a game whereas the other two are fanfiction simulators with sort of a bit of a game duct taped onto them. This is probably why the character creator isn't quite as extensive as theirs.
3. You are the first and only person I have ever heard to say the combat mechanics are anything less then revolutionary to the genre. Here is an MMO that actually plays like a beat em up game, perhaps a very simplified version of god hand or devil may cry, and you spend your entire time just tapping left click over and over again and then say it's rubbish and uninteresting?
4. Using the camera to target things is actually a rather convenient method for anything who has ever played, oh I don't know, a first/third person shooter. If that's not your cup of tea however you can go into the options menu and turn "WASD" on and then target things with the movement keys and be free to do whatever you want with the camera.
5. The iconic powers are there to shut up people who would obviously complain "Scarecrow can use fear gas, why can't I use fear gas?" And once again I have to bring up the point that this is designed to be a fun game about superheros, not a fanfic-fulfilment device in which after you discover that the character creator is godlike you find that all the actual gameplay is shit.
I'm not a fanboy and I do agree that missions can be repetitive but that's basically the only valid complaint you had, you also forgot to mention the fact that PvP in the game is being destroyed by rampant exploits in the combat system that have failed to be fixed after more then a month thanks to SoE's lazy programmers or the terribly designed user interface / chat system.
It's still pretty extensive and takes most of its queues from CoH. It's not as rich, but at least it's less exhausting than the one in Champions Online.
The important thing is to make sure you don't have a few dozen super-heroes who look alike (because of lack of options and not player lack of imagination, the latter of which runs rampant) and at least so far, that bullet's been dodged.
4. Using the camera to target things is actually a rather convenient method for anything who has ever played, oh I don't know, a first/third person shooter. If that's not your cup of tea however you can go into the options menu and turn "WASD" on and then target things with the movement keys and be free to do whatever you want with the camera.
Wait, what? No. I love the game, but the targeting is crap. The game's set to lock on to targets directly opposite to the character, which means the camera has to ALWAYS follow the character's back and sure enough, it usually doesn't, either because you just want to look at another angle of your character fighting, or because you're scanning the immediate surrounding area to plot a strategy. He's absolutely correct about the camera being awful.
4. Using the camera to target things is actually a rather convenient method for anything who has ever played, oh I don't know, a first/third person shooter. If that's not your cup of tea however you can go into the options menu and turn "WASD" on and then target things with the movement keys and be free to do whatever you want with the camera.
Wait, what? No. I love the game, but the targeting is crap. The game's set to lock on to targets directly opposite to the character, which means the camera has to ALWAYS follow the character's back and sure enough, it usually doesn't, either because you just want to look at another angle of your character fighting, or because you're scanning the immediate surrounding area to plot a strategy. He's absolutely correct about the camera being awful.
There follows the point about using WASD mode. Or alternatively you can hit TAB to lock on to a target and do whatever you want with the camera while still attack the same target, and if you need to switch targets you can hit tab again or C to clear target.
I have never, repeat NEVER, suffered any minor inconvenience from the targeting system in this game. It works flawlessly and perfectly for me.
I'm playing with a gamepad. The game was designed to be played with the gamepad, since the mechanics were designed based on the PS3 version. That *is* a flaw and having to cut corners to make it work satisfactorily does not save it.
OMG You mentioned City of Heroes!!!! I still play that game! ! Way to go Yahtzee!
What I don't like about DC Universe (or the previous Marvel one[the cancelled one]) and I like about City (and Champions to some degree) is that you don't feel like the sidekick. Sure in Cox there's Statesman (or Recluse) with all his mates, but they mostly keep to the sidelines and give you quests. Once you accept that you really feel like the Hero/Villain. In DC I always feel like a Batman Clone (in my case) and under the main cast of characters' shadow. And that blows.
In one of the final missions of the game ('lease when i played it) you do start defending some NPC's who look up to your character with the same reverance that you (supposedly) have for the iconics...'course shortly after you've reached the lvl cap, so there y'go...
I'm playing with a gamepad. The game was designed to be played with the gamepad, since the mechanics were designed based on the PS3 version. That *is* a flaw and having to cut corners to make it work satisfactorily does not save it.
I'm Jack Ryder and you are wrong. Why? Because the gamepad controls for this game do suck, but the keyboard and mouse work perfectly. I even went so far as to make a short video demonstrating that the targeting is efficient and fluid, accurate and flawless. This is all done with targeting/control settings at default.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r25OY0PbNSE
Another point I forgot to make in my original post is that yahtzee clearly mistook the purpose of the mentor selection. By "gagety-gadget hero" he clearly meant Batman mentor, gadget power source. What he seems to have totally failed to grasp is that mentor choice is purely there for story and aesthetics and has no bearing whatsoever on your actual character except for what end game armor you can wear.
From Europe, superheroes smell of jingoism: super cops who punch bad guys, as if crime was based in bad attitude or the police was actually the forces of Good embodied. In short, childish jingoism\fascism (jesus christ, there's some actually dressed in the US flag). Really, I'm not joking when I say that if you read comics over here you'll be regarded A) a borderline retard and B) far right in politics.
Thankfully we always had a much more varied selection of comics to read, with every european country's and south america production. And now mangas, which thankfully will be killing off DC and Marvel sooner or later.
BS. The gamepad commands flow better. I've tried playing it with both and while the keyboard/mouse are well assigned enough, the game becomes a hell of a lot more immersive, because of its beat 'em up design. I'm not willing to let that go, because the devs screwed up the targeting.
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Even if the targeting works perfectly for the keyboard/mouse combo, the fact that it falls short of expectations (to put it mildly) with a gamepad, especially when the game has been made with those in mind, means it is indeed a technical problem on the game's part and critisizing it is fair game.
jeez all you need is to read a wikipedia page nowadays. But even before that I remember being bale to jump into a one of the old running comics easily. it's not that hard to figure shit out. I randomly started watching pysch, or any t.v show really and I usually catch up pretty fast. The premise of anything is usually simple to grasp and that's all you really need.
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Nice Burn against that snide little "So yeah" comment. What the heck was I thinking? There is no way I should have dared to cross ideas with you and feel like I could type something as relaxed and possibly snarky as "So Yeah" and I'll be darned if you didnt call me out on it!
