Zero Punctuation: E3 2013

Supernova1138

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WaitWHAT said:
Supernova1138 said:
The problem with emulating the XBox 360 and PS3 is that it requires way too much computing power. Even the most powerful desktop PC doesn't have the power necessary to emulate the current gen consoles, the PS4 and Xbone certainly don't have the necessary processing power to do software emulation of the PS3 or 360. The only way to do backwards compatibility would be with a hardware solution, basically stick a 360 or PS3 into the new consoles to make the old games work, and that would jack up the cost significantly. This is simply what happens when the console makers decide they want to change CPU architecture every god damn generation.
Absolute nonsense. [http://xbox360emulator.net/system-requirements.html]

You can just about run it on hardware from 2006 onwards, with a few graphical tweaks. Heck, any mid-range computer made in the last 3 years or so should manage it fine. The next gen consoles (with an 8-core jaguar APU, 8GB of RAM and a modified HD 7850) should have no trouble whatsoever.
Have you actually used a working Xbox 360 emulator? As far as I know they are all fake, and are just used to try to get you to download a virus onto your computer. In any case, their minimum requirements are absolute garbage, those are the absolute minimum specs to run the latest ports of console games, even if the emulator worked, on those minimum specs you would probably get 5FPS if you were lucky.

As for the recommended specs, it calls for a high clocked hexacore desktop CPU. The Jaguar is clocked much lower than that, relying heavily on core count and GPU computing to make up for the low speed. Problem is, you can only thread your software so much, and GPU computing is only going to get you so far. Even if your emulator is legit, the next gen consoles wouldn't likely be able to run it well unless you were able to overclock them by about 100%.
 

finalizer

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As much as Yahtzee bangs on about indie games, you think he'd have at least thrown Sony a bone for showing some good support for indie development on their platform... As opposed to Microsoft's "No publisher, no go" mantra for the Xbone.

And I also have to point out that, realistically, backwards compatibility was never a sustainable feature, and was pretty much a lightning strike of luck on Sony when the PS2 hit, since the PS1 hardware was essentially a hamster wheel and some string they chucked inside the PS2, that didn't even need proper cooling when it was sitting inside the PS1, allowing Sony to marry two of the largest video game libraries in history. As we've gone forward, the architectures have just gotten too complex and expensive for "chucking the guts inside the next-gen console" to really be feasible anymore, and emulation isn't a reliable alternative - hell, PS2 emulation has still got plenty of kinks to iron out, to say nothing of attempting to emulate the PS3 and its obnoxious Cell. So you could argue that Sony should've tried to put PS3 innards inside a PS4, but then you'd get to deal with a unit that probably would've been much larger, much hotter, and gone from $100 cheaper than the Xbone to $100 more expensive. Remember how well that worked out for Sony at the PS3's launch?

On the other hand, Gaikai will apparently provide an equivalent to PS3 backwards compatibility, but I'll believe it when I see it. And as someone who swapped his 360 video input from HDMI to component just to reduce the video lag, I'm not exactly confident in the idea of playing games on a remote system.

Still, I enjoyed the video overall. The analogy at the start was all too apt, and it's why I've found Sony's "victory" at this E3 to be so entertaining. At the very least, this E3 was still far more enjoyable than those in recent years; some good 'ole fashioned mudslinging has really helped liven things up.
 

klaynexas3

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Dec 30, 2009
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Am I the only one curious as to why we blame the consoles for the lack of innovation? The innovation we want is in the games, not the system itself, blame the damn developers. It's like blaming a company that creates cameras used for shooting movies for Michael Bay or M. Night. Or blaming a paper company for Twilight.
 

GonzoGamer

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Azure Knight-Zeo said:
Looks like Yahtzee's jumping on the anti-exclucive bandwagon.
Is there a bandwagon? Until now, I thought I was the only one.
Everyone seems to love exclusives.
 

BX3

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GonzoGamer said:
Azure Knight-Zeo said:
Looks like Yahtzee's jumping on the anti-exclucive bandwagon.
Is there a bandwagon? Until now, I thought I was the only one.
Everyone seems to love exclusives.
A bit of one. It hasn't gotten too crowded and loud yet, but there's a subdivision of gamers that detest exclusivity. There are some even suggesting that Nintendo's IPs go multi-plat.

I'm a bit surprised as well, honestly. Doesn't seem like a wagon Yahtzee would buy tickets to.
 

rembrandtqeinstein

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BigTuk said:
Seriously though, when did Backward's compatibility become a dirty word in consoles. I mean that was the main selling point of the PS2 (arguably one of the best selling consoles in recent history).
The backwards compatibility was a major selling point. But also remember the timing of the PS2 release with the transition from VHS to DVD couldn't have been more perfect. At the time the standalone DVD players were >$200+. Of course nobody knew at the time how crappy of a player the PS2 was, all they saw was that DVD was head and shoulders over VHS.

I would argue with anyone that the PS2 gen (6th?) was the greatest console generation, maybe tied w/ 5th. The fact that the PS2 system was still in production for over a decade is crazy.

That and the PS2 had the best controller.
 

finalizer

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WaitWHAT said:
You seem don't have to have any evidence that it doesn't work. And as for evidence that it does, here's a boatload of youtube videos showing it in action [http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=xbox+360+emulator+PC&oq=xbox+360+emulator+PC&gs_l=youtube.3..0.614.4004.0.4199.20.11.0.9.9.0.134.952.10j1.11.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.m9kAn5_svWI].
Did you even look at any of the videos from your search query? Most of them are flooded with comments detailing that the things are fake. Should be as no surprise, as even the original Xbox barely has an emulation scene, and lags far behind the PS2 and Gamecube in emulation development. Have a little snippet [http://forums.ngemu.com/showthread.php?t=132217] on why 360 emulation just isn't feasible at the moment.
 

Steve the Pocket

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So, what's up with the videos autoplaying from now on? I'm probably the only person on earth who has a reason to be bothered by that, but still.

WaitWHAT said:
Absolute nonsense. [http://xbox360emulator.net/system-requirements.html]

You can just about run it on hardware from 2006 onwards, with a few graphical tweaks. Heck, any mid-range computer made in the last 3 years or so should manage it fine. The next gen consoles (with an 8-core jaguar APU, 8GB of RAM and a modified HD 7850) should have no trouble whatsoever.
The minimum requirements are considerably lower than the actual hardware inside an Xbox 360. How, pray tell, does that work? I was very much under the impression that hardware emulation Does Not Work That Way.

I'm downloading it anyway, though, because I'm curious and clearly have a death wish.

Either way, I highly suspect that trying to support Xbox 360 games on a system where each core has barely half the clock speed of the original, even if there are more than twice as many of them, would be fiddly at best, and they preferred to not have to explain to everyone why some of their games randomly don't work and they have no way to tell ahead of time which games those would be.
 

DarkhoIlow

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Was looking forward to a episode of E3 from you Yahtzee and you didn't disappoint as per usual.

I kinda agree with you there, a lot of rehashes on the supposed "next gen" with barely anything new. The new IP's like Watch Dogs and what not will be this current gen as well so not pretty much to choose from, especially since most of them are exclusive to one console or another.
 

finalizer

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Steve the Pocket said:
I'm downloading it anyway, though, because I'm curious and clearly have a death wish.
Uh, yeah, you clearly do. Have fun with that rootkit.

But seriously though, just hit up google and do some research before you potentially damage your system.
 

Arslan Aladeen

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Oct 9, 2012
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Isn't Yahtzee's complaint about MGS going open-world applicable to just about every open-world game including Red Dead and Skyrim?
 

TwiZtah

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Finally someone comes forward and say "WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO DEAD RISING!"

I want my dead rising to be about riding a tricycle in ballerina clothes, not grumble grumble MOOOOOODY.
 

IronMit

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complaining the MGS gameplay was fastforwarded?? are you kidding me?

Devs are using pre-rendered cutscenes and misleading trailers and you actually complain about MGS's decision?

It was an informative way to show how the Open world and stealth gameplay actually works in a short window. Nobody wants a preview to only consistent of watching someone driving from one side of the map to the other in GTA, Far cry 3, or skyrim...unless a dragon appears.

Trying to illustrate immersion in a short demo would be boring yes, and a poor use of the limited time

The Division is linear?
They went out of their way to show that you could choose where to explore, and then ended with a sudden pvp scenario.

Sounds like Yahtzee decided to unfairly criticise promising looking games because they are rumoured to be console only.
 

finalizer

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WaitWHAT said:
1. Youtube comments are more reliable than actual youtube videos showing the simulation in action? Yeah, uh, no.
It's one thing to have a few negative comments, a whole 'nother for an overwhelmingly negative reaction. Even if you don't choose to believe the comments themselves, that should be throwing up some mental warnings that there's something fishy going on in the big picture.


WaitWHAT said:
2. That thread is from 2010. Here's a quote
One thing is already clear, you'll [most likely] need a Direct3D11 class GPU to handle it's tessellation engine, and I'm quite sure that you'd be limited to 64-bit OSes.
Considering that both consoles have DX11 GPUs (a modified HD 7850), it's very reasonable to assume that they could run it. Likewise, they have 64-bit OS's.e specs, it's safe to generalize.
That kind of statement proves you have little idea as to how emulation works. You don't just port code over to a PC and assume it'll work with the same hardware requirements as they do on the original system. Consider that to emulate the PS2 and its meager specs, you're looking at a decent quad-core CPU at the minimum, and an i7 if you want to run it without a bunch of potentially detrimental speedhacks.

But let's delve in further to that very thread I linked, where they specifically point out the supposed 360 emulator you linked to earlier - we'll be looking at posts on the end of page 2 and the start of page 3, all made about a year ago:

As far as the updates go we fixed some issues with Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3. There had been some glitches with the xbox 360 emulation for sound. Also the xbox 360 controller emulator was having some problems with emu360 and Call of Duty: MW 3. Below you have a list of the latest updates on the xbox 360 emulator in order:

ALT+F4 now exits the emulator
Pressing F1/Shift+F1 switches back to windowed mode for file dialog
*.mcr files are shown in memory card dialog
Option to disable status icons (CD/XA/MR, etc..) - disabled by default
dbghelp.dll is now optional (required for saving crash dumps though)
CD drives (IoControl and ASPI) should now work
Fixed save state loading bug
Fixed crash when entering non existant save state filename
If there's no info on these forums on a new (PS3/XBox360) emulator, then it stands to very good reason that it's a fake. Just look at the fixes... ASPI? Seriously? Did he just read ePSXe's requirements and assume that it's necessary? ASPI isn't even relevant these days. It was needed (to some extent) back in the Windows 9x days. XBox360 discs cannot be read by standard DVD drives anyhow as the discs themselves are physically different Also, perfect graphics emulation right off the bat is practically impossible.
Well said. Also, look at some of the other terminology used: CD, XA, etc? That's all related to PSX emulation if I'm not mistaken. The last fake 360 emulator even used Xeon's GUI! Just a load of made up technical details of some attention whore like nerd who needs to get a life outside of his mom's basement. Probably never wrote a lick of code outside of BASIC, VB or maybe C#.

My general rule:

1. It's always [too good] to be true. Always be skeptical...
2. Give us a working/playable download, or it didn't happen...
3. Source code (that compiles into a usable program), or it didn't happen...

I dare anyone to find me a PC that can handle emulating 3 PPC processors (each with 2 hardware threads and it's own dedicated vector unit). Even with static-rec (which is the only feasible method I can think of), that would be a feat.
already mentioned it is fake, it is password protected and makes you do surveys to download.

just fyi, all downloads that require surveys to be done are always fake, you are doing surveys over and over but there will never be a working download link given, all the survey does is the guy who gave you download link gets paid for every survey you do plus the information given to some of these surveys are passed on to hackers to hack your accounts hence why they ask for date of birth, address and private details...

[...]

also the youtube video is faked emulator, it is to fool you to click on the download link and make you do the surveys for nothing.
Ive also tried that one, decompiled the exe, its just fake.
also poorly written, after IDA pro and some CHeat engine I was able to run the program without the popup about required bios, some stupid menu's, nothing works. :p

files you download are bios, roms and plugins for other emulators.
So here's the deal - the supposed 360 emulator references to plugins designed for other emulators in an attempt to sound legitimate, and points downloaders to surveys to generate income for whoever's running the whole operation. It's clearly a scam designed to lure in people who don't know better and just see "technical terms" being thrown around and a youtube video and assume the whole thing will magically let them play 360 games for free.
 

Darth_Payn

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Arslan Aladeen said:
Isn't Yahtzee's complaint about MGS going open-world applicable to just about every open-world game including Red Dead and Skyrim?
And if we're talking open world, he totally missed Assassin's Creed IV:Black Flag. Sailing around the Caribbean Sea, stopping at port cities, diving for treasure (including fighting sharks), and yes, stabbing dudes off rooftops and naval combat. They first had pre-rendered trailers, too, but, they showed gameplay too, and it looks fucking badass!
 

carpathic

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That was an excellent episode. I quite enjoyed the huge disclaimer at the end. Good to see Yahtzee bringing the humour in a large scale this time. (I am not sure what I mean there exactly except to say that I enjoyed the humour, and the vast amounts of it in this video)

thanks!
 

Do4600

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Supernova1138 said:
the next gen consoles wouldn't likely be able to run it well unless you were able to overclock them by about 100%.
You seem to be under the impression that the Xbox 360 and PS3 are somehow miniaturized versions of the Krell's 33,000 km^3 power and computing machine from Forbiddon Planet. They are computers, built by humans early in 2006 for at most US$800. Denying backwards compatibility is just laziness in optimization.