Zero Punctuation: Eve Online
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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I have played the 21 day free trial about 5 months ago, and i must say it was very VERY complicated and not user friendly at all. Still i did find that fun because it wasnt holding my hand, it was complicated. Also i noteced you needed like one year of playing to actually get like the huge ships that you see in the trailer, no joke they cost like 100,000,000 credits. And i personally like to be a lone wolf type of person, I would only do shit with like 10 close friends. No matter what MMO WoW, or EvE i was always alone (In the since that i was only in it for myself i would do shit with other people but not to help them.)
Excellent review. Spot on!
I tried EVE online about a year ago, and while some of it was interesting, there was one thing that I absolutely hated about the game: The totally unfair skill training. Sure, you can say that casual players get a chance to compete with the hardcore players, but that's exactly what makes it so unfair. Why the hell would I want to 'play' ( - most of time you're not even playing EVE, because you can go AFK - ) EVE for several hours per day if I can achieve the same by playing it an hour a week?
Sure, the economy is 'realistic', but instead of wasting money on messing around with this 'realistic' simluation, I might aswell make some real money in real life.
The UI is horrible. The font is annoying and there are too many menu's.
The interaction with other players simply involves either clicking on 'attack' and setting an orbit distance and watch what happens, or chatting with them. I've tried the 'oh-so-awesome' PVP, and it hardly involved any skill. It's about who has the biggest guns and the most SP.
The Corporations fight for empty space with minerals. They COULD form an alliance with other corporations, but for some reason everyone wants to have his personal space where (s)he can do absolutely NOTHING.
The only thing I like about EVE is its steep learning curve. It eliminates all the people that can't handle it, leaving the commited ones behind. Kind of like "Survival of the Fittest".
Well done Yahtzee, the review was great, though lacking some information, but great nonetheless.
I tried EVE online about a year ago, and while some of it was interesting, there was one thing that I absolutely hated about the game: The totally unfair skill training. Sure, you can say that casual players get a chance to compete with the hardcore players, but that's exactly what makes it so unfair. Why the hell would I want to 'play' ( - most of time you're not even playing EVE, because you can go AFK - ) EVE for several hours per day if I can achieve the same by playing it an hour a week?
Sure, the economy is 'realistic', but instead of wasting money on messing around with this 'realistic' simluation, I might aswell make some real money in real life.
The UI is horrible. The font is annoying and there are too many menu's.
The interaction with other players simply involves either clicking on 'attack' and setting an orbit distance and watch what happens, or chatting with them. I've tried the 'oh-so-awesome' PVP, and it hardly involved any skill. It's about who has the biggest guns and the most SP.
The Corporations fight for empty space with minerals. They COULD form an alliance with other corporations, but for some reason everyone wants to have his personal space where (s)he can do absolutely NOTHING.
The only thing I like about EVE is its steep learning curve. It eliminates all the people that can't handle it, leaving the commited ones behind. Kind of like "Survival of the Fittest".
Well done Yahtzee, the review was great, though lacking some information, but great nonetheless.
Totally agree with all Sir Yahtzee's comments about EVE. 'Tis a game for people who find numbers more interesting than other people.
Eve is a game that is about the polar opposite of MMOs like WOW, where instant gratification are the thing that keeps players coming. In EVE, it is the planning, strategy, player to player interactions, and political atmosphere that keep the players involved. If you only play for a few minutes, then you never get a feel for the game (which is true for any MMO out there, even WOW takes a good 30 minutes to get a feel for what the whole game is).
Someone already made a video about eve from a newbies view. I recommend watching it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMSjd6HNQdY
For the zp review (read: rant): Yep, spot on.
And it's still the best mmo for me, entertaining me during evenings after hard work.
*buzzzz* *buzzzz* *buzzzz* *refine*
For the zp review (read: rant): Yep, spot on.
And it's still the best mmo for me, entertaining me during evenings after hard work.
*buzzzz* *buzzzz* *buzzzz* *refine*
Spot on enough review, really.
EvE online is not so much a space game as it is an economic simulation. If you get excited about the idea of Virtual Online Communities then EVE Online is made for you. Its a game where you hand-forge your own player-run civilization from nothing through the endless toil of refining space rocks into something. However, if you like to play games to have fun then EvE's novelty wears off rather quickly. The most exciting part of the game is when giant player-run corporations face off against eachother, and even then it's pretty much number crunching who's able to tank the longest.
If Yahtzee wants to play a fun MMORPG (which, I'm sure he agrees, sounds like a real oxymoron by now) then I heartily recommend he give City of Heroes a spin. It's one of the few MMORPGs that was designed with enjoyable gameplay in mind. However, I think two caveats are neccessary in this case:
1. Like any other game, City of Heroes does not remain fun forever, and then all that's left in the grind.
2. If you play it like the path to victory is kicking eachother's shins, that's exactly what you'll get. City of Heroes allows some creativity and tactics in combat, but you have to try.
EvE online is not so much a space game as it is an economic simulation. If you get excited about the idea of Virtual Online Communities then EVE Online is made for you. Its a game where you hand-forge your own player-run civilization from nothing through the endless toil of refining space rocks into something. However, if you like to play games to have fun then EvE's novelty wears off rather quickly. The most exciting part of the game is when giant player-run corporations face off against eachother, and even then it's pretty much number crunching who's able to tank the longest.
If Yahtzee wants to play a fun MMORPG (which, I'm sure he agrees, sounds like a real oxymoron by now) then I heartily recommend he give City of Heroes a spin. It's one of the few MMORPGs that was designed with enjoyable gameplay in mind. However, I think two caveats are neccessary in this case:
1. Like any other game, City of Heroes does not remain fun forever, and then all that's left in the grind.
2. If you play it like the path to victory is kicking eachother's shins, that's exactly what you'll get. City of Heroes allows some creativity and tactics in combat, but you have to try.
My experience with EVE is that this is part of what makes EVE online great. The rough game front weeds out most of the undesirables.KiiWii post=6.70442.692385 said:
I only played the 14 day trial myself and found the first few days rather dull and unnerving, but it felt like the ball needed to get rolling for it to be any fun. Apparently I ran into a bug with the initial mission line that wouldn't let me have the next mission so I ended up having to earn the fancy new frigate you would normally get through mission rewards. After I did that and was able to actually get through some of the level 1 missions and the experience was pretty good until I felt the missions repeat... over and over. That is not to mention that they started sending me several gate jumps away. The thing that really bugged me was that even though I had gotten a cruiser, I was still fighting frigates. I remember someone saying that higher level missions get you larger ships, but none of the level 2 mission givers would talk to me yet. The worst part about it is that the cruiser, while being bigger, has a harder time than a smaller ship, the destroyer, at blowing up frigates due to the whole speed issue. And while you could equip it with larger weapons, the weapons also were slower tracking that made it just not worth using a cruiser in the trial(unless there is some sort of shortcut to get to the level 2 mission givers that I don't know about).
So the bigger boot thing doesn't work after a certain point in EVE. I mean you can have a bigger shield/armor to get through and that's effective at surviving, but you have to actually be able to hit the smaller "boot" to get the loot. I've found that if you have any ship set to full stop and enemy ships orbiting you, you will barely ever hit anything. That is how important speed is.
Wow, you didn't even scratch the surface of what Eve offers, even over that year it seems. Combat is much more involved than you give it credit, and it is not all about who has the bigger gun and most SP. Actually, the bigger guns have a drawback. If you are in a battleship with large guns, and I'm in a frigate with a high speed and small, short range weapons, then I have the upper hand, and in terms of training, I can get my equipment long before you would have the skills to use the Battleships stuff. Just about every aspect of the game is deep and has many different things to consider, similar to a tactics RPG.AdamAK post=6.70442.692484 said:
As for being unfair, the hardcore players are rewarded where casuals are not in the terms of money. While most games are level based, Eve is money based. You can train for years, be able to sit in the largest, most armored ship, with the best weapons for that ship, and still be stuck in a frigate because you play casually and never will amass the billions of isk needed to afford what you trained for, while the hardcore player will have a hangar filled with different cruisers, battleships, a capital ship, and other variants, thus being prepared for any situation. All because they play a lot and can afford the nice items.
That said, Eve is definitely not a game for the masses, but when people go in expecting the usual MMO stuff, they will be caught extremely unprepared for what is presented.
deathkittin post=6.70442.692524 said:
Please read the whole topic.CCP Greyscale said:Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not agreeing with most of what was said - and consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun, in my experience. Doesn't stop it being funny though, which is what it's for, right?Sylvie Giovanni said:It's hilarious that the developers of the game are endorsing the video, just wow
But the fun is just gone when you have a smaller weapon but more agile.PxDn Ninja post=6.70442.692539 said:
I remember in Mechwarrior: mercenaries 4, i got the Cougar light mech, Put on Machine gun racks ONLY. Imagine the terror when i saw an ATLAS (reallyfockingbing) mech coming down.
I knew that i had to use skill to beat him, and i knew that i could. But in EVE i simply knew that fatass ship with a huge penis is going down simply because i'm more agile, the stress of knowing that you're completely outnumbered, so you can just go out blazing is gone, making it a passive experience for me. Although i have to admit, when i tried EVE, i traveled. A. LOT.
Couldn't agree more with the sentiment. WoW is enough of a second job, tyvfm.
Still clever and spot-on but not QUITE as clever and spot-on as last week. But that's my opinion.
Still clever and spot-on but not QUITE as clever and spot-on as last week. But that's my opinion.
I've played EVE for over 5 years now. I feel your review was really uneducated. EVE is a pure PVP game plane and simple. There is a thin veil of PVE just to get you started while you learn the game mechanics, which I will agree with you can be a doozy to learn to the uninitiated. However, that is where the game ends for people looking for a MMO clone. The only thing PVP oriented if you choose to never leave secured space is the market. And that is about as fun as reading the walstreet journal.
If you fail to join a player corporation that engages in player combat. That is where the fun begins and in my opinion where the true game lives. There are a massive amounts of killboards all over the internet to look at. Nearly every nation with internet has a player population represented which bring their own gaming culture to the EVE community.
Furthermore, loss is real in EVE. When you die, you loose your ship and your modules. While there are insurances you can purchase the standard battleship for < 50 man gangs will still set you back around 85 million isk ( EVE credits ) which is no laughing matter to most people.
If you played EVE for 3 months in a complete PVP corp and you were exposed to the PVP culture you're review would have been completely different. Most MMO's fall into the wow category but EVE has about 2 weeks worth of content for that type of player and then its just crap. But there are YEARS worth of content if you like the ultraviolence pew pew action of fighting other players around the world.
If you fail to join a player corporation that engages in player combat. That is where the fun begins and in my opinion where the true game lives. There are a massive amounts of killboards all over the internet to look at. Nearly every nation with internet has a player population represented which bring their own gaming culture to the EVE community.
Furthermore, loss is real in EVE. When you die, you loose your ship and your modules. While there are insurances you can purchase the standard battleship for < 50 man gangs will still set you back around 85 million isk ( EVE credits ) which is no laughing matter to most people.
If you played EVE for 3 months in a complete PVP corp and you were exposed to the PVP culture you're review would have been completely different. Most MMO's fall into the wow category but EVE has about 2 weeks worth of content for that type of player and then its just crap. But there are YEARS worth of content if you like the ultraviolence pew pew action of fighting other players around the world.
Fair, but even that feeling is handled by the use of modules in Eve. So your the small ship with the advantage, until that battleship either A: Kicks on a webber and causes your ship to slow to well within it's targeting speeds, B: Deploys drones for close range defense that can easily keep up with you, or C: Calls in allies who can hit you. Of course even these can be countered on your end. Kinda like and expensive game of chess.Wewt post=6.70442.692555 said:
But I agree it is a passive experience at other times. My main character was a miner starting out and that was a very passive experience, but good money.
Very funny, as always. I have to agree that every mmo tries to be Wow and they suck. Apparently, its impossible to create a mmo that isn't turn based combat or incredibly unintuitive and confusing. I would love to see some put some decent effort into a mmo that's based on skill rather then lvls and isn't turn based combat, one where you actually do something in combat.
On a side note, I hope to god he reviews Spore next week, its out in Australia already and will be out in the states by then.
On a side note, I hope to god he reviews Spore next week, its out in Australia already and will be out in the states by then.