Wow...the two of you please...don't ever do that again. Honestly, it just hurts the eyes and is a pain to scroll through, that coupled with the fact that only you two seem to care about what you're talking about...
Zero Punctuation: Fable 2
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
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please...please review Fallout 3. I despise it for everything its worth and maybe its not the game, but if you dont rip shreds on Bethesda for ruining possibly the only gaming sequel i could consider marrying then i will disown you as whatever sort of gaming guru i ever thought you were.
And or Far Cry 2, I'm yet to know if i should get it
And or Far Cry 2, I'm yet to know if i should get it
I love Yahtzee's videos and this one was no exception, but I disagree with him regarding the combat system. I found that the combat system was very fun engaging and unique in this sea of terrible rpg and fps games, however it did have flaws like it taking far too long to charge for higher spells. Like many rpgs it is much easier and faster to take a direct approach and melee everything down. and mobs glitching a bit bla bla. over all I enjoyed the game and the combat system.
Yahtzee does bring up many valid statements that I agree with.
Yahtzee does bring up many valid statements that I agree with.
i am not a fanboy, i love fable 2, thank you for pointing out all the stuff my mind tried to block while i played it. Very good review.
Oh so agreed, and it's not that it is micro-management, it is that you get a divorce if you ignore it.
I can barely tell what you guys are argueing about,but if you're talking about child killing in videogames and games being banned for it, than yes you can not possibly support the first ammendment and think a game should be banned for child murdering.
You know, I said I wouldn't post here again, but I think I need to point something out.
Yahtzee's review of Fable 2 wasn't entirely true. Some of the things he said just didn't happen in the game. For example, when he said his dog had been searching for treasure while he was fighting, that wasn't true. The dog's role is to search for treasure and enemies. When an enemy appears, he growls, stops sniffing for gold, and helps you fight. There have been no reported bugs stating otherwise, so I can tell that Yahtzee stretched this little bit of his review. That alone makes me think that Yahtzee was looking to tear into this game fom the start, whether it was good or bad. That, might I add, is not how a critic or reviewer should handle things.
Of course, from what I can see, no one is actualy talking about the review anymore, so I might as well blow this out my nose. Still, I felt it needed to be said that Yahtzee shouldn't have been so eager to tear this game apart, simply because he didn't want to admit he could have been wrong in the slightest. That isn't to say that he completely lied and that he probably loved the game, because we all know that isn't true. I just want him to handle what he does in a proffesional manner, even if he's pressured to make us laugh.
Yahtzee's review of Fable 2 wasn't entirely true. Some of the things he said just didn't happen in the game. For example, when he said his dog had been searching for treasure while he was fighting, that wasn't true. The dog's role is to search for treasure and enemies. When an enemy appears, he growls, stops sniffing for gold, and helps you fight. There have been no reported bugs stating otherwise, so I can tell that Yahtzee stretched this little bit of his review. That alone makes me think that Yahtzee was looking to tear into this game fom the start, whether it was good or bad. That, might I add, is not how a critic or reviewer should handle things.
Of course, from what I can see, no one is actualy talking about the review anymore, so I might as well blow this out my nose. Still, I felt it needed to be said that Yahtzee shouldn't have been so eager to tear this game apart, simply because he didn't want to admit he could have been wrong in the slightest. That isn't to say that he completely lied and that he probably loved the game, because we all know that isn't true. I just want him to handle what he does in a proffesional manner, even if he's pressured to make us laugh.
So you are saying Yahtzee is a liar?BrainGamer said:
This also happened to me. Rookridge area to be precise - a certain dig spot. Dog yapping on about a dig spot while I was getting my ass handed too me. Am I also lying now?
One of the bugs that has been reported is being unable to dig for treasure after you get attacked while in the process of digging. How are you supposed to dig if your dog doesn't point out where to dig? And how are you supposed to get hit without enemies about? You can't and you can't. This means that it is entirely possible in the game engine for your dumb dog to be treasure hunting while you are in a fight.
That is from a lionhead developer [http://community.lionhead.com/forums/thread/3188498.aspx]. So are they lying also?
No, I'm not calling Yahtzee a liar. You're listing a specific glitch, and also a glitch about the inability to hunt treasure. He was talking about your dog hunting treasure while you fought in general. You're becoming overly defensive over something completely different from what I'm talking about. Seriously, nowhere did Yahtzee say anything about glitches, he did not specifically point out anything to do with dig spots, and neither did I. Also, not once did I use the word "liar," nor did I spaz out. Calm down, we can talk about this like adults, can we not? (I'm using "adults," loosely, as not everyone here is an actual adult.)cuddly_tomato said:
You didn't use the word 'liar' but you did say "Yahtzee's review of Fable 2 wasn't entirely true. Some of the things he said just didn't happen in the game." You also said "There have been no reported bugs stating otherwise, so I can tell that Yahtzee stretched this little bit of his review. That alone makes me think that Yahtzee was looking to tear into this game fom the start, whether it was good or bad. That, might I add, is not how a critic or reviewer should handle things."BrainGamer said:
You owe someone an apology.
I never "spazed out" in defense of Yahtzee. I "spazed out" at your defense of what is the most broken game EVER in the brief history of the Xbox360. This is EXACTLY what happened to me (contains spoilers)...
Started a game, lots of hang ups and general crashings. Go through to the spire. Finished spire. Wife mysteriously vanished and child is now standing on the porch, not moving or speaking, like some kind of mannequin. Found out there is no work around for this and I will miss some game content because of it.
Erase save and start again.
Do the start AGAIN. Do blacksmithing for 2 hours AGAIN. Earn enough to buy some property so I won't need to do any more RETARDED work... AGAIN. Get through to Oakdale AGAIN. Saw monk. Head down to see the dude with the bridge. Game crashes. Re-load, fortunately saved in Oakdale. Go to see dude with bridge. Game crashes. Reload. IMMEDIATELY upon reloading my hero holds up dashes goggles and trumpets that the quest is completed (!!!!). Then the damn game autosaves (a feature which you can not switch off). I walk into Rookridge. Dammit! Dash is alive and well and running around even though I have apparently killed him already. I chase him down anyway, find him in his spot on top of the rock plinth thingy. I shoot him. Game freezes.
I reload, find to my horror that it saved AFTER I had apparently killed Dash without actually doing anything. I walk into Rookridge again. Chase him again. Find him on plinth again. Save at this point. Kill him - crash - reload. Kill him - crash - reload. Kill him - crash - reload.
Have to start entire game all over AGAIN.
Erase save and start again.
Do the start AGAIN. Do blacksmithing for 2 hours AGAIN. Earn enough to buy some property so I won't need to do any more RETARDED work... AGAIN. Get through to Oakdale AGAIN. Saw monk. Head down to see the dude with the bridge. Game crashes. Re-load, fortunately saved in Oakdale. Go to see dude with bridge. Game crashes. Reload. IMMEDIATELY upon reloading my hero holds up dashes goggles and trumpets that the quest is completed (!!!!). Then the damn game autosaves (a feature which you can not switch off). I walk into Rookridge. Dammit! Dash is alive and well and running around even though I have apparently killed him already. I chase him down anyway, find him in his spot on top of the rock plinth thingy. I shoot him. Game freezes.
I reload, find to my horror that it saved AFTER I had apparently killed Dash without actually doing anything. I walk into Rookridge again. Chase him again. Find him on plinth again. Save at this point. Kill him - crash - reload. Kill him - crash - reload. Kill him - crash - reload.
Have to start entire game all over AGAIN.
This game is simply not fit for use and should be recalled. Using the fact that most people have internet connections to push games out of the door before finished is a low tactic, and should really be against the law.
great review.. BUT about the whole "you get a scar from dying" thing, i don't think it was meant to scare people from dying.. i think it's a neat little feature. it was pretty cool in Fable 1 when you were fully grown and you could see all the scars on your hero.
Great Review, the only thing I wish he had mentioned that he didn't was the new Save set up. I hated how the Auto Save used the same slot as the Normal one. It was lovely that I was ask each time I saved if I was sure I wanted to overwrite my data. But when it came time for an auto save it didn't really matter if I cared or not. It just overwrote it.
While I feel bad for you and your horrible gaming experience, once again, Yahtzee listed none of those problems. Not to mention, I owe no one an apology, as I still never called Yahtzee, you, or Lionhead Studios a liar. Just because I criticized Yahtzee (funny, no?) does not mean I'm immediately a villain or a liar. You, dare I say, are slipping into a fanboyish state. When I played the game, I only experienced one glitch each time I played through it, and even then, they weren't very bad glitches. You were just unlucky. I'm guessing Yahtzee experienced very few glitches, as he didn't bother to mention it at all.cuddly_tomato said:
My main point, though, is that the game's very manual says "Your dog will not find treasure while enemies are around." Those aren't the exact words, but it still states that pretty boldly. That's why I criticized Yahtzee. I'm pointing out that he attacked this game more so than usual, which could be because people expected him to rip it apart.
I would also like to disagree with your "recall" statement, as you've officially pointed out that you are a Yahtzee fanboy (poor Yahtzee). Your hatred for this game has carried over to your love of Yahtzee, which has lead you to attack me for critizing him. Besides, a recall? Over something as small as technical issues? Unless this game caused massive damage to every Xbox 360 console it was played on, a recall would not be made. Get a hold of yourself, you're a gamer aren't you? Start acting like one.
(PS: I'm not defending this game, I'm defending the balance that game reviewers should keep when reviewing a game.)
First off, I am perfectly a hold of myself. Any hostility you see here is purely your own projection of it. I played this damn game, and found it stupidly bugged. I clearly was not alone. Look around...BrainGamer said:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3170894
http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2008/10/24/fable-ii-players-report-game-breaking-glitch/
http://www.videogaming247.com/2008/10/24/fable-ii-players-report-game-breaking-bug/
http://kotaku.com/5068806/fable-ii-abbot-glitch-now-a-matter-of-priority
http://forums.xbox.com/23960225/ShowPost.aspx
http://forums.xbox.com/24215871/ShowPost.aspx
http://forums.xbox.com/24209246/ShowPost.aspx
http://forums.xbox.com/24201625/ShowPost.aspx
http://forums.xbox.com/24202863/ShowPost.aspx
http://forums.xbox.com/23980761/ShowPost.aspx
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/55554
http://uk.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26647874
http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q4-2008/102808a.html
http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=33050
http://www.agglom.com/agglom/40675/Game_Breaking_Fable_2_Bugs
Now before you assert that an event in the game Yahtzee played "just didn't happen" I want you to go to all those sites and all those forum threads and start pointing out that you only had one glitch, and they are all stretching things a bit. See the kind of responses you get.
I never "offically pointed out" I am a Yahtzee fanboy. So cut that crap out right away. The game should be recalled because it just doesn't work as it should. Every single product on earth should be finished and in complete working order BEFORE money is exchanged. Why game developers feel exempt from this would be beyond me if it wasn't for idiots defending this practice on internet forums.
You are not a villan for criticising Yahtzee, but for calling someone a liar. It is that simple. And that is exactly what you did:-
When you accuse someone of saying something "Not entirely true", then state that it is not an error but that they "stretched it", you are calling them a liar. It might be polite and civily said, but you are still saying they are a dishonest person. When you say they are "looking to tear into" something, and "this is not how they should handle things", you are attacking their integrity. You simply do not behave like this on internet forums, or anywhere else. Get some proof, or cut don't do it. We get it, you like the game. That doesn't mean that everyone who spots a glitch (whether they realize it's a glitch or not) or flaw is "stretching" it.BrainGamer said:
I welcome criticism of Yahtzee in this thread, as he didn't ream this game nearly enough. It was truly one of the worst games of the year... maybe even including Too Human.
Yahtzee mentioned attempts at realism in his review... I could see none in the game.
Hero: "Hey honey, I need to go off and save the world!"
Wife: "That's fine dear, but if you don't come back half-way through that and fart in my face for 10 minutes I will divorce you."
........
Hero (who is now king): "I am king, can I have my kid back now please?"
Child protective services: "Sorry king, your wife left you because you didn't slap her face enough so you can't ever see her again."
.......
Evil Hero (who has just butchered half of the town): Raaar raarr *walks around menacingly with massive hammer and blunderbuss on back*
Random man with pointy hat thinks: "I have a great idea! I shall now walk up behind that gentlemans dog and kick it up the arse!"
......
Hero: *Tries to hit kid with sword*
Kid: "Haha! I am immune to swords!"
The RPG elements were not "a bit of a mess" as Yahtzee said, they were a complete shambles. In Fable 1 I could really pick, magic, stealth, or melee. Whichever I picked I could go down that route in the game and be happy with it, not really needing to branch out into the other disciplines, thus making it a true RPG in that sense. In Fable 2 you cannot do such a thing.
Concentrate on Melee? Then you get enemies you can't fight - trolls, 3 of which are essential for the story part of the game. And the final shard. Impossible to beat with a melee weapon as it hovers out over the sea. You don't get to shoot the gargoyles, which means that entire area of loot is closed off for no better reason than your character somehow can't shoot at what he can see.
Concentrate on magic? Oh well you can't beat trolls either then. As it takes so long to build up a spell capable of even harming a troll, and they throw stuff and knock you over if you try that. Ohh and forget about even building up enough power to hurt beetles, as they jump on your head and distrupt your magic... come to think of it beetles in this game are harder than bandits. Or spire guards. Or shadows. Or balverines... I suppose the creature designers had a falling out with the combat designers and they weren't talking to each other during development.
You can get away with concentrating purely on ranged combat, unless you are of a high level when you get to the spire and get given an arbitrary pop gun with which to beat the commandant and 299 spire guards in such a wonderfully awful part of the game were I found myself wondering why the hell I bothered building up to such a high level when all that was going to happen was it was all going to be taken away again.
And what happened to armor in this game? Fable 1 had armor. What reason is there for an RPG... or any game where swinging swords is part and parcel of the gameplay, to not have different armor? What we have instead is clothes. None of which make any difference other than making NPCs offer a few different lines occassionally.
The story... oh my god the story... Fable 2 has the worst story of any RPG in the history of gaming. And I include games such as Gauntlet and Heroquest on the Spectrum. The story, for those who want it spoiled, is this...
As a kid, you buy a magic box, which you use and it vanishes.
You are then taken to a castle, where the owner shoots your sister, then you in the face, and you get carted off by totally not weird looking lady. Then you are all grown up, with a dog who now must be 16 but somehow is not dead. You go into the heros guild and find out that the guy who shot you is a very naughty man! To stop him you have to find 3 other heros.
So off you go. You find the place where hero 1 is, but get find you can't see her, can't even speak and point out that the end of the world is nigh, without being more famous. So you do some arbitrary fetch/carry missions, or some "kill certain number of baddies or boss baddy missions", and then become famous. See hero, do a hero mission, get hero on your side.
Now for the second hero it is more or less the same thing. You need to see this hero, and you can't until you are famous enough and have done a little mission straight afterwards. Sure you get to go to the spire and meet some nasties there, but nothing important happens there except you get the second hero.
Third hero stretches this "fame" mechanic in a different tangent. You don't need fame to see the third hero, he just tells you to piss off out of his mansion until you are famous enough.
You get all three heros. Then fight a giant shard in what is a genuinely fun part of the game if you have levelled up ranged combat.
Straight afterwards, the game pulls the biggest dick move in the entire history of gaming. Straight after that shard, the game is over. It's kaput, finished. But it will continue making you play what is nothing more than mindless drivel until it 'officially' ends. I am going to be brief about what happens, but this tangent goes on for over half an hour.
You go back too hero hill with all three heros. They make a nice and pretty lightshow. Then the big baddy comes, knocks you out, kills the dog, and then does something to you. You wake up a child again, and get to play a minigame of kicking chickens, shooting bottles, or shooting beetles. (Those beetles are in fact the last enemies you will face in the game, so make the most of them.) Then you wake up in the night because there is some music. You follow it, you find the music box that vanished at the start. You pick it up and somehow end up back in the spire.
Then you see the baddy, and literlly just hold the 'A' button until it's over. No, this is not a euphemism for "did some magic" or "did some attacks" with the 'A' button. I mean you press and hold the 'A' button, and that's it. That's how you defeat the guy who killed your sister, who threatened the world, who shot your dog, who is the main focus of evil in the game. "Hold A".
You are then taken to a castle, where the owner shoots your sister, then you in the face, and you get carted off by totally not weird looking lady. Then you are all grown up, with a dog who now must be 16 but somehow is not dead. You go into the heros guild and find out that the guy who shot you is a very naughty man! To stop him you have to find 3 other heros.
So off you go. You find the place where hero 1 is, but get find you can't see her, can't even speak and point out that the end of the world is nigh, without being more famous. So you do some arbitrary fetch/carry missions, or some "kill certain number of baddies or boss baddy missions", and then become famous. See hero, do a hero mission, get hero on your side.
Now for the second hero it is more or less the same thing. You need to see this hero, and you can't until you are famous enough and have done a little mission straight afterwards. Sure you get to go to the spire and meet some nasties there, but nothing important happens there except you get the second hero.
Third hero stretches this "fame" mechanic in a different tangent. You don't need fame to see the third hero, he just tells you to piss off out of his mansion until you are famous enough.
You get all three heros. Then fight a giant shard in what is a genuinely fun part of the game if you have levelled up ranged combat.
Straight afterwards, the game pulls the biggest dick move in the entire history of gaming. Straight after that shard, the game is over. It's kaput, finished. But it will continue making you play what is nothing more than mindless drivel until it 'officially' ends. I am going to be brief about what happens, but this tangent goes on for over half an hour.
You go back too hero hill with all three heros. They make a nice and pretty lightshow. Then the big baddy comes, knocks you out, kills the dog, and then does something to you. You wake up a child again, and get to play a minigame of kicking chickens, shooting bottles, or shooting beetles. (Those beetles are in fact the last enemies you will face in the game, so make the most of them.) Then you wake up in the night because there is some music. You follow it, you find the music box that vanished at the start. You pick it up and somehow end up back in the spire.
Then you see the baddy, and literlly just hold the 'A' button until it's over. No, this is not a euphemism for "did some magic" or "did some attacks" with the 'A' button. I mean you press and hold the 'A' button, and that's it. That's how you defeat the guy who killed your sister, who threatened the world, who shot your dog, who is the main focus of evil in the game. "Hold A".
That is lame. Very very very lame. Particularly that kind of ending. I fondly recall pitched battles around the focus sites in Fable 1, along with a vicious show-down with Jack-of-Blades. What happened to Lionhead in that time?
In summary, yeah I think Yahtzees review was funny, but not really hitting the nail on the proverbial head of this game concerning its quality. He really should have taken it and crucified it, before cutting out it's eyeballs and feeding them to it.
No, pre-censored Manhunt 2 would have gotten AO. You're flailing here by claiming that "Extreme violence has never given a game an AO, because there has never been a game released that's had an AO for violence." when you damn well know any game the ESRB says will get an AO for certain content will be retooled, since the AO is a kiss of death. You could try to point out some Playboy games or a few niche games that are aiming for AO but that too would be complete bullshit.Ragdrazi said:
I mean you started this post with a restatement of a totally disingenuous sentiment. I see no reason to engage you on the rest of the post until you begin to argue honestly.
cuddly_tomato: The reason Yahtzee's style is good because he creates the illusion of being a foaming at the mouth maniac for comedic effect. It doesn't work when you really foam at the mouth.
I cut that quote up a good bit, seeing as I didn't want to stretch the page, but rest assured I read all of that. This will be my last reply, so look at these words and think very hard about what they mean, alright?cuddly_tomato said:
I did not call Yahtzee a liar, so I am not a villain. Unless I used the word "liar," you can't hold this against me. You merely took it that way. You're being rude and obnoxious, and it is very hard to hold a conversation when you continue to go on about me calling Yahtzee a liar, when I clearly did not. We aren't in Grade School, where kids go on and on about "he said this," and "he said that," I would hope.
However, the many words that you shortened to a single four letter word were not false. Yahtzee's first reviews on Youtube included his review of Fable: The Lost Chapters. He gave that game a balanced and fair review, and seeing as Fable 1 wasn't all that great, the "tearing up" that he gave it was pretty much deserved. However, between being contacted by Peter Molyneux and the pressure of having so many fans, Yahtzee was expected to tear this game apart. At first I wouldn't have thought he would do so, but I'll be shot dead before I take back what I said. In the game manual, it says your dog won't hunt for treasure while enemies are around. Yahtzee said otherwise. While the game is pretty bugged, he said something that went against the game's programming. Therefore, I said he "stretched" his review. I did not say "OMG Yahtzee is liar ass-douche LOLZ."
So DO NOT call me a liar, DO NOT accuse me of calling anyone a liar, and DO NOT hold such hostility when you aren't even talking about the same thing that I'm talking about. You're listing glitch after glitch, trying to distract me from my main point, as you cannot prove me wrong. It says so in the game manual, the dog won't hunt while enemies are present. Even if there was a glitch where he did, that would be a "glitch," something Yahtzee didn't bother to mention. He did not say anything about glitches, so each time you speak of bugs and glitches, you fail to stay on topic. I'm talking about the game's very programming (flawed as it may be). Are we clear now? I called him out on something that was set in stone for the game, glitches be damned.
Moving on to your vast amount of links, I would just like to say that you do not have enough of them to change my opinion. Unless you can show me over 1,000 websites about Fable 2's glitch issues, each having over 100,000 hits, I will not agree with you that Fable 2 is so "glitched" that it should be recalled. Why, you may ask? Millions of people bought this game, and ten or so sites complaining about them will not cover all of those consumers. The game is bugged, I agree. The game is glitchy up the ass, I agree. However my gaming experience has been fine, and I don't even use Xbox live.
On a last note, now you're going on about the game's very quality? The story even? What's next, the cover art? You've strayed so damn far from the topic I picked up that you shouldn't wonder why I won't be responding to you anymore. So you didn't like the game, oh well, I guess you aren't the Fable type. Don't go yelling "recall" just because you, one person, hated it. Even if tens of thousands of people hated this game, that's still only a fraction of the amount of people who bought it. I liked this game because Fable 2's gameplay was fun and easy, the game was never once frustrating, and the childish humour that such an adult game makes is just hilarious. How many games have blood splatters and sex, yet very rarely use profanity? Very few. I loved Fable 1, I love Fable 2, and the likes of you or Yahtzee can't change my opinion. Without people like me, the game industry would collapse. People like you complain and complain, telling people not to buy games, which has a heavy impact. As Gamers, we need to buy these games and try them, even if they are good or not, because everyone's opinions are different. Someone who would have liked the game might not have bought it, simply because people like you complained that it was a waste of time. Anyone who enjoys playing video games is a Gamer, and we all have a responsiblity to buy these games and at least give them a chance. If the money stops, how will the video game companies produce that one amazing game?
As you might have noticed, I'm not some uneducated 10-year-old with a computer. I know what I'm talking about. Sadly, as this is my official final response, any last opinions you want to get in will all be ignored. Unless, of course, they are actually good opinions, in which case, I may actually respond.
(EDIT: I feel this needs to be said. You went on about how the game forces you to branch out your abilities as a hero. I agree, however, I loved this fact. Why? Because the game's story said you were the nexus which brought the three hero abilities together. Going down one path is fine, but the game tries to make it hard for you if you do. The game is pretty easy to beat anyway, wouldn't that extra challenge be a good thing?)