Zero Punctuation: Final Fantasy XIII

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Hollywood Knights

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Apr 2, 2010
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I usually agree with most of what Yahtzee has to say, certainly as far as story-led games go, but I feel I've got to leap to the defence of this franchise a little bit.

Now I'll freely admit I love Final Fantasy (although I don't think they've made a truly great one since 2001, but anyway), and I think it's a great shame that Yahtzee thinks otherwise. However, I'm not here to say what bits of the games I think are brilliant and how he's so wrong blah blah, because we'll go round and round all day - everyone knows it's a game that polarises audiences. However, I do think there's an aspect to this debate, and to his slamming of the franchise staples, that he's overlooked. There's this common view that most Square Enix fans are half-blind idiots who'll lap up any old rubbish as long as it has spiky hair and big swords, and then tell the world how utterly brilliant it all is, to the accompanying sound of incredulous forehead-slapping from its critics. While these people think we're morons, in actuality, they just don't quite understand why we like the games. So:

The angsty drama, the complicated and unwieldy combat system, the ridiculous names, the separation of combat from gameplay, the over-the-top outfits (although I think Vaan's probably went a bit TOO far), the immensely slow pacing of the story... as FF fans we're not apologising for these things and trying to claim they either don't exist or that they're the finest examples of game design right across the board. Sure there would probably be smoother ways to make a battle system (if that's what you want), and more subtle ways of telling the story. But then it just wouldn't be Final Fantasy. We like the games BECAUSE of those things - they're as comfortable, familiar, and as much part of the franchise as Chocobos and Tonberries, and we'll always come to a new game in the series with an understanding of what it's going to be like, both in the gameplay and story elements.

So when the collected, smug FF haters go on about all of the game's various 'flaws'... yes, we know. We like it like that.
 

Bosola

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Mar 6, 2010
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As far as it getting good 20 hours in not being a good thing...I'd say it is, quite frankly. Just because some people don't have the patience to make it that far doesn't mean it's a point against the game. Most of the characters are likeable enough from the start...and those that aren't grow on you as they change and develop, a fact Yahtzee completly ignores because what he's done here is jugding an entire novel by its first few chapters. It might be funny in places, but it's useless to anyone who actually wants to use this as a hint about whether the game's any good or not.
And there was I thinking games were about entertainment, and that we should applaud designers and directors who have the skill to weave narrative into games, rather than clunky storytelling and primitive delineation of plot ("here's a dry, prose summary, because we don't know how to do our jobs and produce stories that enthrall. Can I have your hard earned cash now, please?").
 

maximara

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Jul 13, 2008
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Darkefire said:
Well done, Yahtzee. This is exactly why I couldn't stand Final Fantasy 7, I shouldn't have to play through a game for three or four hours before it gets good, it should start out good and get its tedious parts out in the middle when we're already committed.

Given what he said way back in his Condemned 2 review I am surprised that Yahtzee put up with the game for as long as he did. His review reminds me of a late night horror film I continued to watch in the hope it would get better--it never did.

That is my feeling toward the 'but it gets better later' crowd--why should I watemy time if they can't get it good from the beginning.
 

Primus1985

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Dec 24, 2009
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27 pages already? no need to go through it I can summerize 90%: "Yahtzee doesnt like JRPG's so he's opinon doesnt matter, Squareenix can do no wrong, im a fanboy wah wah wah."

Actually I cant belive Yahtzee lasted 5 hours, thats how I know he's completly unbiased. I only lasted 3.

FF13 worst FF of all time, i can name any other entry and it would be better.
 

FLWD2L8

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May 31, 2008
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I have to admit .. As much as i like the final fantasy range
Final fantasy 13 has seriously been dumbed down for those that have never played it before.
For the rest of us that have actually kept up with the combat and storyline
It just takes way too long to get to the open world.
I stopped at about 10 hours in and cannot be arse to go any further
I mean its probably gonna be one of those games that i play when im on holidays
Purely and simple for something to pass the time with ..
I mean i cant comment on the XBOX version of the game .. im only playing it on PS3 and its only one disc
And apparently its worse on XBOX ..
How the FRICKEN HELL can it be worse ..
I love FF games .. but i just cant stand this one ..
Im gonna agree with yahtzee on this ... It might have been worth it if there was so much linearity to the game ..

!! END RANT !!
 

boholikeu

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Aug 18, 2008
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Swmystery said:
As far as it getting good 20 hours in not being a good thing...I'd say it is, quite frankly. Just because some people don't have the patience to make it that far doesn't mean it's a point against the game. Most of the characters are likeable enough from the start...and those that aren't grow on you as they change and develop, a fact Yahtzee completly ignores because what he's done here is jugding an entire novel by its first few chapters.
The difference here is it rarely takes 5 hours to read the first few chapters of a novel. I know the stereotype is that gamers are supposed to have more free time to "get into" a long game like FF, but I think it's fair to expect some sort of pay off after playing for longer than two feature-length movies. If you can't get into the meat of the plot by then, that's just bad editing and game design.
 

Zeni Geba

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Apr 1, 2010
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Gregor Hakha said:
Zeni Geba said:
F?? you for this review yahtzee, if you?re a RPG hater then ?STOP PLAYING? BI?.CH. Final Fantasy XIII was a very good game .your review was like leasing to an idiot talk ?trying to imitate Simon Cowell? just some wannabe game critic stick to what you do best review first-person shooting games ?where the plot is always terrorist attached .go kill them ? SHIT.And if you think you are good Enough to critic other people work try making a game as good as Final Fantasy XIII ? the 3d that you call flashy and if you look at from the side its 2d that alone shows what an ignorant small minded and un educated BI?.CH?
oh dear. did he hit one of your nerves?
you KNOW yahtzee hates this sort of game,and you knew he'd kick the shit out of it. so why watch it then get your knickers in twist over it?
oh,right,sorry. i forgot. the typical jrpg fan is an absolute cretin who wishes they lived in japan and praises anything that comes out of it. Japan could release a machine that grinds your dog into a pulp while brutally ramming you up the arse with a barbed,splintered piece of wood and you'd love it.
you watch anime all day long,clinging on to your pc desk in terror as you wonder if the main character will be able to overcome whatever's in their way,because you can't differentiate between cartoons and the real world,and you think the characters will somehow read your "helpful" advice in the comments page of the website. you play shitty games like this because you think you're as "awesome" as the characters in it,whereas picking up a real sword would wear you out in a second.

you don't have to be a game maker to say how shit another game is,especially if the game itself is bad.
what people like you need to realise is that because YOU (an unimportant speck among billions) like something,that doesn't make it a good thing.
some people like rape or pedophillia, that doesn't make those good things.
i am so sick of people like you. nintendo fans are just as bad.
"this game has shit graphics,boring,samey gameplay but the music is kind of good and my mum would only buy me the cheapest of the next gen consoles and because i like it that makes it good"

short version. fuck you.



ill replay on one thing only coz whatever you said is pointless if you think that the graphics is shit try making a 3 sec video that can come close to ff13 *****.and if you cant shut the fuck up.unless you a real graphics designer you won?t know
 

Phantom_Natal

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Sep 2, 2009
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Thank you for it not turning to be a april fools present.
3 disks running a corridor... honestly, I don't blame you for quitting the game after 5 hours.
 

Astralpulse

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Jun 4, 2009
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Swmystery said:
As far as it getting good 20 hours in not being a good thing...I'd say it is, quite frankly.
20 hours in order to get into a story is not acceptable. Not for a book or game. 5 hours should be quite acceptable to at least get a good grip on the story. FF XIII did not do this very well, at all, unless you read the datalogs, which is an extremely poor way to give story information for a game.

Swmystery said:
Just because some people don't have the patience to make it that far doesn't mean it's a point against the game. Most of the characters are likeable enough from the start...and those that aren't grow on you as they change and develop, a fact Yahtzee completly ignores because what he's done here is jugding an entire novel by its first few chapters.
No. No no no no no no. No. The outro to this video, where he killed off Vanille about 5 different ways? Hell yes. Vanille, Snow, Fang, Lightning, Hope; all terrible, all the the way through the game. Sazh was the only good character in the game. I kept thinking as I was playing, "they'll get better, I'm sure they will." Next thing I know, lolcrystals, TEH END. Worst characters in any FF game.

Swmystery said:
It might be funny in places, but it's useless to anyone who actually wants to use this as a hint about whether the game's any good or not.
I can partially agree here. Anyone who frequents here knows Yahtzee hates JRPGs, so it would be much better to go read the thousands of posts on other forums saying some of the same things Yahtzee does here.

This game was the worst in the FF franchise.

-----

P.S: Great video. Please kill Vanille in more ending shots.
 

ArmorArmadillo

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Mar 31, 2010
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Excising all fanboy back and forth: I think his review was good, not just as comedy, but about its review. I think it's refreshing to see someone tear FF down because this series, and Square as a whole, has been coasting for a long time on their massive egos.

I think it's completely fair for him to have only played 5 hours, because 5 hours is a LONG TIME TO BE PLAYING A VIDEO GAME, especially when it isn't even fun: Hell, it's more time than he put into Portal. It only even seems unfair because Square made their game a bloated freak. When you don't bother making your game good into 20 hours in, you run the risk that people are going to lose interest and stop playing before that point...but FFXIII treats itself as an obligation and the fans agree. How DARE you not keep playing this game? It's Final Fantasy! I don't care that it is utterly boring and uninteresting and that playing it for 5 hours has been torture, you must keep playing.

Not to mention that Square-Enix pretty much encapsulates everything that is wrong with JRPG storytelling: Bloated visions of epicness that confuse complexity and depth and don't even attempt to draw in the player, utterly awful pacing, and shallow stock characters...considering how much this series sells itself on story excusing crappy gameplay, you wonder why they'll never fix it.

And, for the record, I have liked JRPGs, particularly Grandia II...an actually good example of how to weave epic plot into a manageable and good storyline that grips you from the beginning; contrasted with Grandia III, in which Square-Enix took over the property, got rid of everything good, and then replaced everything with unfulfilled concepts of unmanageable epicness and turned it into a FFVII clone, a game whose awful story has been inexplicably copied.

Of course, many Final Fantasy fans seem to enjoy this stuff, so maybe it's an alien concept to me.
 

Lady K

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Apr 16, 2009
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I say if Yahtzee doesn't like Turnbased stuff like Final Fantasy, he should try something like the Tales series, since that series plays more like a fighting game. But regardless it's still a JRPG so expect some whiny drama and long cut scenes...
 

Woem

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May 28, 2009
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Perhaps Final Fantasy XIV will feature Dissidia's combat controls. You know: walk up to the enemy and press X to punch him in the face.
 

Bran Mugen

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Feb 16, 2010
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I'm not alone! I thought I was the only person left from the old Final Fantasy Series. Seriously though, FF7 ruined the series quite spectacularly, as if the newer games weren't enough they actually are considering remaking FF7, the fools.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Nov 19, 2009
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I will go as far to say that VII accidentally started to mess up the series and a lot of JRPGs in general because they started to use the game as a Rosetta Stone for everything post-PS1 era due to the fact that it's still the most successful JRPG in history. Yeah, Cloud was angsty but he also had a sense of humor, cared about at least one of his friends, and was fully aware of things beside himself (even if he was schizophrenic). Heck, I bet he wants to smack Lightning upside the head and tell her to get over herself. At this point Mr. Strife is probably knocking back shots with the guys while Tifa looks after the kids.
 

essexfuzz

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May 15, 2008
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He pointed out everything that I hate about JRPG's. They are so annoying to me now, and I used to love the FF series.
 

Neurowaste

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Apr 4, 2008
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I honestly don't understand the appeal with FF, the only ones i played were on the NES and SNES,and those were pretty fun,but all the other ones, will somebody please explain? Anyways, good review Yathzee, as a fellow non J-RPG'er this would have probably been my reaction too...
 

TheodoreLuke

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Nov 30, 2009
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WhiteTiger225 said:
TheodoreLuke said:
I only liked Crystal Chronicles and X-2.
I hated CC only because its like they were trying to use the MUCH better Secret of Mana system to try and con us mana fans into playing the FF series (And the fact it had a game ending glitch... which I got...)

BTW., you have some hot second lips that you play instruments with :D
What Glitch?

>:3
 

li-ion

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Dec 19, 2008
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Good review.

I've never played any FF. I was thinking to give FFXIII a go to see what all the fuzz is about. But after reading in a couple of reviews that it only gets 'good' after at least 16 hours in, I decided not to. I don't have that much spare time. And don't want to go on holidays for playing a video game. If a game isn't 'good' after the first hour already, I don't see a point in keeping playing.

Maybe I'll try FFIV on DS later this year.