Zero Punctuation: Heavy Rain

A1

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Aisha Bonner said:
The whole consequense claim, is a line of cock and bull. I went through a number of scenes doing different thngs and the bottom line is often times you make different choices and the outcome is exacty the same. I was so dissappointed, they had a chance to do some thing truly unique and instead they mucked it up with bad voice acting, stiff moving animations, a plot with holes as large as the great state of Texas. Vision...10, Intent...10, Execution...0. Heavy Rain...EPIC FAIL.

I already argued this earlier in the thread but there is a big difference between plot holes and unanswered questions. This is why I think that the plot hole accusations that have been directed at the game have been largely misguided and overblown. Plot holes and unanswered questions are not the same thing, but evidently there are at least some people in the world who can't tell the difference.
 

A1

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Hopeless Bastard said:
Not G. Ivingname said:
However, if Heavy Rain flops, expect story to be left in some dumpster and every game to ever be made for the next decade to be only about space marines and things one would expect to see in a Michel Bay film.
This is a common sentiment. Too bad its utter crap. Heavy Rain is not the last hurrah of story. It might be the last hurrah of quantic dream, but story will always be a viable tool to set products apart from, well, halo.

Heavy Rain's problems are the same problems of indigo prophecy (other than the batshit insane second half), the illusion of interactivity is paper thin and it takes only one stray realization or repeated sequence to utterly shred it. Once gone, heavy rain / indigo prophecy becomes nothing but a really long movie on a malfunctioning DVD player with a weird remote.

Now, if bioshock had flopped, yea, story would've been done for.

I seriously doubt it's Quantic Dream's "last hurrah", considering that the game has been selling well so far. So no, the game is certainly no flop.

And Bioshock has certainly done quite well in terms of sales. But what's not so clear is if it's really because of it's story or because of the fact that it's still largely about shooting and blasting stuff in different ways.

Anthony Burch has some interesting stuff to say about Bioshock in his video right here:

http://www.destructoid.com/rev-rant-fun-isn-t-enough-142052.phtml
 

A1

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BloodSquirrel said:
Brotherofwill said:
Man I don't get Yatzhee sometimes. It's funny and he's a really great guy, but what's he exactly trying to get at?

He keeps on complaining about lazy sequels, cookie-cutter bland adventures and an overall lack of originality, but then he doesn't do anything about it. He keeps on reviewing shitty, mainstream titles instead of maybe branching out a bit to show us some better games. He said that 'noone likes it when I'm being nice', but that's just not true. His Psychonauts review owned, I bet thousands of people picked that up and tried it because of his recommendation. I did. He just doesn't do anything about it. He has a viewership of millions, he really could pitch some new concepts at us instead of whining and repeating the same tripe.

So the pacing is off? I strongly disagree. In order for these 'visceral' moments to work, the pacing has to be balanced with high to low moments. Like in great movies, starting slow is often extremely helpfull because it makes the more accelerated bits seem more extreme. It's supposed to be a murder mistery like 'Misery' or 'Don't Look Now', it's always good to set these up in the frameworks of common lifes to get the necessary shock value later on. U2 was great, but the shoot-bang-bang formula will only work so well, and no single moment is able to stand out. Excessive action is really a problem in modern entertainment.

I loved the beginning of this game. You really don't know what to expect. It starts incredibly slow. Ridiculously slow. I sure as hell made some jokes about it, while I was playing it (like shake contoller after the peeing animation), but it still worked because it was new and set the frame works. My mother was interested in the game from watching the first 10 minutes, that says it all (and she's very hard to get interested in games). The only thing she's been interested in in this medium is The Last Guardian, because it resembles the imaginative.

I don't mind that he doesn't like it. Hell there are loads of things that I didn't like about it. Voice acting was extremely unbalanced, it relied on a fair share of clichees and the timing that the game is on can be iritating at times. But it was a breath of fresh air in the current releases. Atleast he can highlight that it does some new things, instead of giving people the impression that this is a Sims game.
If you really thought he was going to like this game, you haven't really been paying attention.

For starters, Yahtzee's complaining and pretensions to some kind of greater standards have always been something of a joke. He's always contradicted himself on what he claims to want, and and he's always been more fanboyish about the few things he does like than than genuinely able to explain what they're great. Psychonauts is a perfect example- the game was fun, but it was hardly deserving of being placed above many of the games that he's reviewed. Or how about Painkiller, one of the dumbest, most simplistic shooters of the decade? It's fine if you like that sort of thing, but don't come to me afterward pretending that you're too good for Halo.

Until the day where Yahztee gives a good review to a game that it isn't cool to give a good review to, like, say, Halo, I'll never consider him a serious critic.

Second, Yahtzee has never liked games that put story over gameplay. He's complained about quick time events. He's never been patient with games. What, exactly, made you think he'd like Heavy Rain? Even if I did take him seriously, and even if I didn't personally find the idea behind Heavy Rain to be incredibly dull, I still wouldn't have expected him to like it.

I think you've made some decent points about Yahtzee. Yes, consistency generally doesn't seem to be his strong point. And yes, he's not a patient gamer and generally doesn't like QTEs.

But on the other hand he's also claimed that the best games have story and gameplay go hand in hand. And he's also mocked both developers and consumers alike for being too unwilling to take risks. And it's also probably important to note that he's said that nobody likes him when he's being nice to a game. So he generally goes out of his way to knock even the games that he likes (with of course the notable exception of Portal). So theoretically even if some developer goes out of it's way to throughly study all of Yahtzee's statements and opinions and create an entire game based on them he would probably knock that game anyway. This is why it should be very interesting to see Yahtzee address Heavy Rain seriously after dropping all of the jokes and sarcasm of his video reviews.

Hopefully he'll do just that with a subsequent Extra Punctuation article.
 

Fatal-X

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SL33TBL1ND said:
They have announce a DLC called "The Taxidermist" I think.
Well yeah it's a DLC with Madison Page, the female hero, but I have already played it because I bought the special edition of Heavy Rain that included "The Taxidermist". Now it's gonna be available for others. When writing my previous post I was thinking forward for the next one's. I heard that there will be three more, each for a hero from the game.
 

ZippyDSMlee

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Oh ggaaaaa..... for the past decade we've had a resurgence of cheap corridor shooters posing as AAA games and now we have gone full circle.....Heavy rian is the start of the return of FMV games......tho....if I get a sewer shark overkill game.....I'll be a happy camper >>
 

Tommy_Dizzle

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im rather amazed that yahtzee found this game good, as it reeeeaaally didnt seem like thye sort of game he would like, but hey, thats our man.
 

SL33TBL1ND

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Fatal-X said:
SL33TBL1ND said:
They have announce a DLC called "The Taxidermist" I think.
Well yeah it's a DLC with Madison Page, the female hero, but I have already played it because I bought the special edition of Heavy Rain that included "The Taxidermist". Now it's gonna be available for others. When writing my previous post I was thinking forward for the next one's. I heard that there will be three more, each for a hero from the game.
Oh ok, how is the Taxidermist by the way?
 

Elesar

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My own opinions of Heavy Rain aside, for the moment, I actually felt that the Trials in Heavy Rain were more adult than the ones in the Saw series. For starters, the Saw series is, rather childishly, obsessed with blood and gore. For second, the Saw series seemed more like Jigsaw punishing you physically for stuff he didn't like. To use an example from the first movie (before the series went COMPLETE insane) there was the guy who tried to kill himself and then Jigsaw flung him in the room with all the razor-wire. To me, it felt like a 13 year old yelling "THAT'LL TEACH YOU TO BE DEPRESSED!"
Finally, and this is the important part, there is the choice. In the Saw films, there is no choice, not really. There is "Put yourself through agony so Jigsaw can get it up" or "Die, probably agonizingly anyway." In Heavy Rain, you always have the option to chicken out, which, to me, makes it more adult. If it was just the father that was in danger, there wouldn't be any choice, but this becomes about what is he willing to do to save someone else. Feel free to disagree, but that's just how I felt.
 

BGH122

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Corohan said:
BGH122 said:
I bought Heavy Rain at the full whack and it wasn't really worth it. I can see that it'd be great to play as a rental, but that's all. It takes about eight hours to complete it properly and it has zero replayability.
There's more than 22 different endings in the game and by that I don't mean those Fallout 3-type of endings. I've never played another game where your choices could have such a dramatic consequence on the game so it's not exactly fair to say that the game has zero replayability now is it?
Yes, it's entirely fair because the game isn't really a game at all, but rather an interactive movie and, as with real movies, it only works if you connect with the characters and, in crime dramas like this, still have mysteries left to solve. Unfortunately, after a single play through, during which the characters seemed very realistic and their storylines still held mysteries to solve, all of this is gone.

On the second play through the game is very obviously just a game, the characters no longer hold any form of emotional credibility and their storylines (and the effect one's actions will have upon said storylines) become completely transparent. It doesn't matter that there's lots of pretty arbitrarily different endings (the majority of differences are person x did or didn't make it ending up in one of two possible over-arching endings where the killer either does or does not get away, the endings aren't anywhere close to as unique as you claim) because it takes 8 very dull (on the second play through) hours to get to them.

So yes, it has no replayability.

Elesar said:
My own opinions of Heavy Rain aside, for the moment, I actually felt that the Trials in Heavy Rain were more adult than the ones in the Saw series. For starters, the Saw series is, rather childishly, obsessed with blood and gore. For second, the Saw series seemed more like Jigsaw punishing you physically for stuff he didn't like. To use an example from the first movie (before the series went COMPLETE insane) there was the guy who tried to kill himself and then Jigsaw flung him in the room with all the razor-wire. To me, it felt like a 13 year old yelling "THAT'LL TEACH YOU TO BE DEPRESSED!"
Finally, and this is the important part, there is the choice. In the Saw films, there is no choice, not really. There is "Put yourself through agony so Jigsaw can get it up" or "Die, probably agonizingly anyway." In Heavy Rain, you always have the option to chicken out, which, to me, makes it more adult. If it was just the father that was in danger, there wouldn't be any choice, but this becomes about what is he willing to do to save someone else. Feel free to disagree, but that's just how I felt.
I agree with all your points. To me, Saw has always felt like a pathetic splatter flick posturing at intellectualism; its fans often give some wishy washy justification about how 'it's ironic' or 'it's examining the frailty of human life' because, after all, there's nothing more ironic or deep than watching two criminals attempting to pull each other towards a thresher, or watching people try to escape from a rib-flinging splaying machine, I'm sure Chomsky and Mackie were famed for examining human plight through the medium of splatter flicks. Sidetracking, but seriously, don't those who claim that they watch gore flicks (both real and cinematic) to 'get perspective about human frailty' just feel retarded? Isn't it just immediately obvious to everyone with working faculties that humans are frail?

Anyway, yes, the Origami Killer still had rather peculiar motives, but they were at least pseudopsychologically sound and more deep than 'me no likey certain human traits, grrr, Jigsaw smash!!!'. The trials also felt very intense on the first go around and the pressing urgency of the protagonist's 'quest' shaped his storyline nicely.

Admittedly I'm somewhat biased here, what with hating Saw with a passion, but I was definitely impressed by the way that Heavy Rain handled traps and made them seem like more than just a cheap thrill.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Yahtzee, you cracked me up as soon as you referred yourself as a Game Critic :D funny stuff indeed...

You know you're a entertainer, right?
 

Safe-Keeper

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So wish I could watch this.
Sadly, I haven't yet bought and played Heavy Rain, and I'm terrified of having things spoiled to me.

Oh well.
 

geektastically

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I thought it was a great Review, even if I don't agree with all points when it comes to to the Zero Punctuation reviews, I can understand your opinions and appreciate them for being your opinions. They always make me laugh regardless if I agree or don't. I think a lot of Nerd Rage occurs because people can't be bothered to separate that concept.. n00bs.

I think that you should review Deadly Premonition, just due to the differences of opinions that I've seen and I'd be interesting in seeing what. I've seen it compared to Heavy Rain, which is kind of interesting. The graphics are kind of screaming Silent Hill 2 on the PS2 to me, but I'm not all ZOMGZ not Next Gen Graphics, I can't play you. I'm contemplating playing it, to write it off my list of cheesy games, and sides at the end of the day it's 20 bucks. I can think of a couple of pop cap games which are currently going for 30 bucks, which is a raping of a wallet. I wish I could get the Gaming companies to realize that as a Fangirl of Survival Horrors I need a better fix on these games. Here's to crossing my fingers and getting my wishes.. hehe.
 

nasanu

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Mertruve said:
By the way:
There are consequences and punishments for fucking up in Heavy Rain ... but only some of the time. Many of the game's most thrilling QTE sequences are little more than illusions that you actually can't fail. Ethan's big, scary trials in the game? Try and fail them, see what happens. The game will arrogantly take over for you, because it's so cocksure and egotistical that it simply MUST make you see all the brilliance it has to offer. Having Ethan fail at something, then pass out and wake up with the whole scenario being cleared up for him is bullshit, and it completely ruins the excitement factor.
I purposely failed a lot of his challenges. The game did not do it for me, I just didnt do them. The above is a complete lie.
 

ZeroDotZero

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SL33TBL1ND said:
Fatal-X said:
SL33TBL1ND said:
They have announce a DLC called "The Taxidermist" I think.
Well yeah it's a DLC with Madison Page, the female hero, but I have already played it because I bought the special edition of Heavy Rain that included "The Taxidermist". Now it's gonna be available for others. When writing my previous post I was thinking forward for the next one's. I heard that there will be three more, each for a hero from the game.
Oh ok, how is the Taxidermist by the way?
It isn't anything to spend money on really. There's a few different endings, but it probably isn't worth your time, unless you want something spoiler-free to show your friends and get them into the game.
 

rawr.

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I am in no doubt that you will review God of War III, but no matter how hard you may try to rip it apart, it is the most epic game I have ever played.
 

Slipslop

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I really enjoyed the game, it HAS some downsides (plotholes, rather bland/limited gameplay mechanic), but the game lets you forget it with the way it is presented to you and there are so many ways how a scene can turn out. You have to take it for what it is, an interactive Drama, it's half game half movie. I agree with Yahtzee with his point about it not making sense to play it again, it takes away all the suspence and it's just for the achievment/trophy zombies (i will never get, why people love achievments so much, i guess it's a psychological matter)
 

Dak_N_Jaxter

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When you said that you thought you could change the killer, I remember thinking that was a bad idea since it basically meant fate wasn't constant. The same applies to the bit with the religious nut blunder. But after buying and completing the game, I actually really wish there was a way to change who the killer was....
 

deplorable

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Never pointed out the plot holes (although enjoyable game it was, doing this... would be more fun with twilight or harry potter both of which have more holes than swiss cheese).

Game was good, it did lie to you at one bit (those of you who know who the killer is, knows exactly which bit the game cheated you. since you were there, you should have saw him do it)

It also cheats at another point, yes lauren can die.. but leave the controller and just go make a snack at the car sinking bit... yeah.. game cheats again (2nd play through before you ask). Played it 3 times, 4 different endings... some of which were truly amusing. My sisters bf got completely different endings than me too.

I got the limited edition, so the taxidermist was there (although HMV screwed up so i never did get my soundtrack, shame i quite liked the music).

Now the Taxidermist is what i expected the game to be, ALL THE WAY THROUGH. It was on most of the trailers and previews of the game. Why it ended up a DLC i'll never know....

And yes i also made the origami figure while the game installed... at least it tried to be different and i enjoyed the time i put into it. Far more than any of the games thats been reviewed in the past 2 months (bar Mass Effect 2).

It did differ from farenheit though, as Heavy Rain featured an almost romantic stressed out deranged sex scene... whereas farenheit made you bang your ex redheaded girlfriend and use the right thumbstick as an orgasm maker. (funny as hell scene)