Zero Punctuation: Hyrule Warriors - Nintendo Holding Pattern?

Enlong

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I felt it was, in some ways, a better Warriors game than the other one I played; Orochi 3.

Having a dodge button on everyone, combined with a lock-on system and mid-mission checkpoints severely cut down on annoying incidents where I have to restart an entire mission after getting blindsided and juggled to death by an enemy 28 minutes into a battle.

That, and the way keeps and reinforcements work felt a lot easier to understand and work to my favor

Maybe all these points are common, and Orochi 3 is the stripped-down one, but that was my impression with it.
 

Something Amyss

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Aristatide said:
This is what Warriors games are like, and Yahtzee just doesn't get the appeal of those qualities, which is nothing new; he's felt that way about many other mini-genres before.
Weirdly enough, people only seem offended because it's a Zelda game.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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lordofpowies said:
Yahtzee, I love you, you're extremely intelligent and really funny, but every time you review a Nintendo product, you make sure to insult me personally.
He liked Wind Waker and Luigi's Mansion 2, didn't he?
 

MerlinCross

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Personally I liked this game. I like DW games(To a degree. Do they really have to be madden like?) and I liked it for well not being a Zelda game.

Now I'm not asking for Zelda to turn into Mario(Kart, Party, Doctor, Used Car Salesman), but some spin off games would be nice. More so if they get away from the formula they've been running with for what....15+ years? Heck 3 of my favorite games are Link's Awakening, Oracle of Season/Ages just be cause there's no Zelda in them, OR Ganon!

(Addendum: The Oracle games do feature Zelda and Ganon but only when you use the password system after beating one on the other game.)
 

Aristatide

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bobleponge said:
I would like to give some mad props to Dynasty Warriors fans, and their attitude of "yeah, everything terrible you say about it is absolutely correct, and I understand why you wouldn't like it. We love it, though." That's a healthy attitude to have, and I wish more video game fans shared it.
Well, it's either that or you greatly increase your risk of an aneurysm due to perpetual rage, and I'm not ready to be the next Kevin Sorbo. You know how in the greater geek culture everyone slags off on furries because they're a safe target? Dynasty Warriors fans get this in video game fandoms. A lot of it has to do with the current conceptions of what's valuable in gaming culture; it's not coincidence that Jim Sterling, who would perhaps marry the Warriors franchise if he could, made that "Innovation: Gaming's Snake Oil" Jimquisition. Repeating a formula that works with some minor enhancements can actually be a beautiful thing. Fallout: New Vegas is one of my favorite games for this reason.

Relevant Links:
http://brunching.com/geekhierarchy.html
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7005-Innovation-Gamings-Snake-Oil
 

Maphysto

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Zachary Amaranth said:
The best part is that they will almost certainly be the same ones clamoring for him to review it in the first place.

It usually goes something like this:

"Hey Yahtzee, what do you think of this game?"
(silence)
"Yahtzee, when are you going to review this game?"
(Silence)
"Yaaaaaahtzee, tell me what you think of this game!"
"Fine, it's not good."
"Typical Yahtzee, always hating on games!"
There are two types of people who look forward to Yahtzee reviewing a particular game: The ones who know the game is or is going to be bad and look forward to seeing him rip it apart, and the ones who are waiting with baited breath for him to say he likes it, thus validating them and their tastes forever in the eyes of god and interwebs.
 

Something Amyss

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Maphysto said:
There are two types of people who look forward to Yahtzee reviewing a particular game: The ones who know the game is or is going to be bad and look forward to seeing him rip it apart, and the ones who are waiting with baited breath for him to say he likes it, thus validating them and their tastes forever in the eyes of god and interwebs.
Ayup.

Count me in the former. Even if I like the game. I like Sleeping Dogs. I also like his review of Sleeping Dogs. Hell, I agree with most of his points.
 

MerlinCross

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Ayup.

Count me in the former. Even if I like the game. I like Sleeping Dogs. I also like his review of Sleeping Dogs. Hell, I agree with most of his points.
Yeah. I just find it fun to watch him rip into games even if I like a game in question. Always a laugh.
 

Link Satonaka

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I'm a huge Zelda fan and I cannot explain why I'm not offended by the attack on Zelda fans in this video, like so many posters in the first three pages were. I don't know, I guess maybe I just don't self identify with the image of gobbling up anything Zelda related and calling it perfect- this being who I perceived Yahztee to be attacking. I also don't really get the impression Yahztee himself has any genuine fevered distaste for Zelda fans: it is in his interest to stir up some controversy and generate discussion after all. The "insult" in question just feels routine. It's his internet persona, it works, and it's his job to be that internet persona. *shrugs*.

I think the biggest part though, is that while I continue to love Zelda, I do so while ignoring several aspects of the plot I find stupid, and I find myself at odds with other fans of Zelda who have eaten up the Hyrule Historia as gospel truth. It's an afterthought; a retcon. It unifies plots that were not intended nor written to be chronologically linked (a passing reference/homage to previous works is not an anchor from which you can link two stories), and trying to do so is to disrespect the previous works, imo. The Hyrule Historia was an interesting read but it really bothers me that they retconned a bunch of details in and now every Zelda thereafter goes out if its way to reinforce the retcon. Spelling out the whole reincarnation thing is a particularly lazy approach, too. I always enjoyed the concept of the Zeldas as an evolving *Legend*: one story branching into many different variations with each retelling- one single event has been told and retold so many times over the ages that many variations evolved in parallel and have grown to reference each other. I like to imagine that, as I play each Zelda, the "Legend of Zelda" is a bona fide legend within the context of the world you're in and you discover that there is some truth to the legend, but you never find anything as droll as the specific number of times the legend repeated itself and the exact order everything happened in so that any shred of mystery is smothered to death. The end of Skyward Sword really hammered home that every single story is linked by reincarnation and that these exact events are doomed to repeat themselves forever.. I just found this to be really fan servicey and it completely undermined any mysterious "Legend"-ary feel Zelda once had. No actual Legend (Zelda included) holds up to undue scrutiny and it's far better enjoyed without connecting every single dot. I've been told that I'm not a "real Zelda fan" because of this statement before. So yeah, I agree with Yahztee; screw Zelda fans!
/rant

I played a Dynasty Warriors once, 10 years ago, for 30 minutes. I really enjoyed it. Never got into it again because quite frankly I was overwhelmed with the number of released games in the series and didn't want to buy 6 different copies until I found the one that suited me best.

Then along came Hyrule Warriors: problem solved. It's... entertaining enough to play to completion. I find the combos to be incredibly dull: you press B a few times, then you press Y a few times (in the layout I settled on). In that exact order. Every time. Can you press B, then Y? Yes? You now know every combo for every character in Hyrule Warriors. I've never appreciated before how much work must go into varying the combos for other games so they *don't* get boring. Sure, you unlock extra attacks that happen when you press B*(x), then Y*(z), but the system is so fantastically simple and there's NO specific timing to any of the presses you have to master, which means by the end of the first level you're a master of the combat system and the gameplay hardly evolves.
In say, lollipop chainsaw, you have enough combos that involve many different sequences of THREE buttons (gasp!), a few of which require specific timing to complete. That's an entire game's worth of learning: by the end of the game you could still be finding new things out about the combat system or perfecting your execution of a few moves.

To be fair though, Lollipop Chainsaw has one character with one weapon: so I guess it makes sense that with the many different characters each with at least two weapon types each in Hyrule Warriors, they've probably got their job cut out for them in choreographing all the move sets and balancing them too. Also, there are *some* subtle things to learn as you play Hyrule Warriors: Lana jumping on one of the pillars she made causes it to explode, something I can't figure out causes Zelda to nock an arrow as a part of a combo (and Zelda's arrow system in general takes some learning), etc.

While I do criticize the combos as being boring, they have the strange property of not getting so boring that I wanted to stop playing. I was definitely not having as much fun as I could have been having with a more involved combat system, but as I said earlier I easily played it all the way through. It's just easy entertainment I guess- you keep playing because you get a specific amount of satisfaction from it, small but reliably constant, and never frustration. It's like if you had the choice to watch a show you've never seen before, or watch a rerun of something you find mildly entertaining. I'll waste a half hour watching a rerun, with characters I know, over a show I've never heard of before. Hyrule Warriors is that rerun. You know the characters, you know the basic plot, if you've got time with nothing else to do it's there as a cheap source of entertainment. And you know what? That's not a bad thing to be. I know I don't have the emotional capacity to play groundbreaking, award winning epic masterpieces 24/7. Sometimes I just need to zone out.

The plot is hilariously bad as Yahztee mentioned, and I feel he rather understated how (unintentionally?) silly it is. I mean, instead of fending off the evil army, apparently all Hyrulian forces were trying to find Zelda (who, as it turns out, disappeared for absolutely no reason). Then Sheik shows up and accompanies you as you continue to take the entire army across the country to look for Zelda........ I'm sorry but perhaps the army should be doing other things, like reclaiming strategic positions, and a small task force could be looking for Zelda. Diverting your entire army AND THEN CONTINUING TO ALLOW, NAY, ENCOURAGING THIS INCREDIBLE WASTE OF.... heh, I'll spare you another rant.
 

Lazule

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This game is a wank for Nintendo (Legend of Zelda) Fanboys. Its extremely terrible but hey my favorite character appears there!! I must buy it!

Just like the Ancient Romans said: Bread and Circus.
 

Enlong

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Your logic has slain me, sir. My previous enjoyment of the game and its mechanics have been proven false and retroactively removed!
 

Animeking1108

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V4Viewtiful said:
CelestDaer said:
V4Viewtiful said:
I won't be a satisfied Zelda Fan till we get a HD remake of Majora's Mask. :mad:
You'll probably find that in the trash bin right next to SquareEnix's (can't believe I had to go back and edit that...) remake of FF7...
If the crappy FFX can get a HD remake, there's hope. Dammit!
What's wrong with you? FFX didn't suck. The only people who say that are just parroting Spoony.
 

V4Viewtiful

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Animeking1108 said:
V4Viewtiful said:
CelestDaer said:
V4Viewtiful said:
I won't be a satisfied Zelda Fan till we get a HD remake of Majora's Mask. :mad:
You'll probably find that in the trash bin right next to SquareEnix's (can't believe I had to go back and edit that...) remake of FF7...
If the crappy FFX can get a HD remake, there's hope. Dammit!
What's wrong with you? FFX didn't suck. The only people who say that are just parroting Spoony.
Excluding the fact people have been saying it BEFORE him? Then yes your totally (in)correct. ¬.¬
 

TheZaius

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Animeking1108 said:
What's wrong with you? FFX didn't suck.
http://bestofsimpson.com/uploads/43ec517d68b6edd3015b3edc9a11367b.gif

The only positive thing that can be said about FFX was that it wasn't as bad as the games that came out after it.

It was the coffin for the franchise and FFX-2 was the nails. All the games to come out after it are just layers of dirt.
 

Animeking1108

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Okay, what was wrong with it aside from the voice acting? With how you describe it, you make it sound like nobody liked it. It was one of the best-selling games on the PS2 and the sequel wasn't made out of spite like XIII-2.
 

CaitSeith

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God of Path said:
I can't imagine how difficult it might be for Team Ninja designing a Zelda game to NOT give Link gorgeous, voluptuous (water-balloon-jiggle-enhanced) breasts.
Well, at least they did a good job making the Great Fairy looks very faitful to the OoT's version. Seriously, I give the same recomendation as I did in 1998: don't get too close or she'll may poke your eyes out with those things!
 

CaitSeith

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Got the game and it really felt awkward hearing a narrator's voice on a Zelda themed game. I kinda found funny that they gave to Link a Navi wannabe so he could be included in the dialogs.
 

Animeking1108

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Jim_Callahan said:
Animeking1108 said:
Okay, what was wrong with it aside from the voice acting? With how you describe it, you make it sound like nobody liked it. It was one of the best-selling games on the PS2 and the sequel wasn't made out of spite like XIII-2.
Going from FF1 toward the higher numbers, the balance of actual content to cutscenes shifted gradually to the right, each FF game has a different balance and the higher the number goes, the more content occurs without any meaningful player input whatsoever. FF1 is basically an AD&D simulator that you might find a plot in if you put a Dark-Souls level of effort into finding it and filling in the blanks, and FFXIII was literally just progress quest, you scripted your party and walked away from the console during most of the actual gameplay segments.

There's nothing wrong with an RPG being a story game, in fact that's pretty much what defines an "eastern" RPG. However, there comes a point where it's simply no longer a game, just a movie presented in the worlds most annoying and passive-aggressively terrible format (and, let's face it, not a very GOOD movie in most cases).

There are three kinds of people in the discussion of which FF games got the story/gameplay balance about right, where the story was good but the game was still fun to play:

1. People that think it was FF6 (usually because Kefka is one of the best video game villains ever so no one minds losing control for a few cut-scenes, which usually don't focus on your characters doing anything out-of-character play-wise anyhow).

2. People that think it was FF7 (usually because they feel the romance-ish subplot adds something to the experience).

3. People who are unarguably, quantitatively wrong (usually because they're forming an opinion based on not having played many video games at all and probably only one or two FF games as well).
What about IV? What about IX? Also, kind of douchey to say that I'm wrong for liking FFX.
 

lionday

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You know critics have been saying " It's Dynasty warriors with Zelda." and my problem with that is simple " What the heck is Dynasty warriors?".
Dynasty warriors isn't some sort of video game super icon. It's a kinda obscure game series. It bugs me that critics throw that phrase around without ever explaining what that franchise is or why that would be a bad thing.

Once I found out this was going to be like Dynasty warriors I understood the purpose of this game.
It does serve to hold the Zelda franchise till we get Zelda U.
It also serves to be another well made game for the wii U.
It also serves to be a testing ground for DLC in nintendo games ( this and Mario Kart 8 )
It also serves to get people interested in the Dynasty warrior franchise.

As I said before I had no idea what the Dynasty warriors game was before I heard of this game. Now having played the game ( and really enjoyed it) I'm kinda interested in the actual Dynasty warriors franchise.

The game has it's flaws like not explaining what the difference between A and B ranks are, and if your character is underleveled for fights they will have a hard time. The game story mode being short ( but it does tell a story, throw in a bonus story to boot)
Anyways I'm happy this game exist and in a few years I'd love a sequel.
Why in a few years?
Cause that's probably when i'll be done unlocking everything in this one!