Zero Punctuation: Hyrule Warriors - Nintendo Holding Pattern?

Shjade

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Feb 2, 2010
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Y'know I'd not quite put my finger on the problem I have with Dynasty Warriors 8 and Yahtzee's put it rather nicely in this. It's that feeling that the missions aren't emergent in any way, that there's basically a set way to complete the battle and doing it any other way means failing any number of objectives, which may or may not mean outright failure altogether. Compared with older DW games where the objective is basically just "win" and you can come at it from pretty much whatever angle you want, it feels far more limited. Bothersome.
 

Enlong

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Shjade said:
Y'know I'd not quite put my finger on the problem I have with Dynasty Warriors 8 and Yahtzee's put it rather nicely in this. It's that feeling that the missions aren't emergent in any way, that there's basically a set way to complete the battle and doing it any other way means failing any number of objectives, which may or may not mean outright failure altogether. Compared with older DW games where the objective is basically just "win" and you can come at it from pretty much whatever angle you want, it feels far more limited. Bothersome.
Perhaps for some battles (some of the story ones, certainly), but I feel like there's still a lot of missions (mostly in the Adventure mode map) mostly just say "kill the enemy commander!" and let you figure out how to do that without your main keep falling in the meantime. Though occasionally you need to beat an officer or find a key first.
 

Shjade

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Feb 2, 2010
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Enlong said:
Perhaps for some battles (some of the story ones, certainly), but I feel like there's still a lot of missions (mostly in the Adventure mode map) mostly just say "kill the enemy commander!" and let you figure out how to do that without your main keep falling in the meantime. Though occasionally you need to beat an officer or find a key first.
I was mainly talking about story missions, yes. In early DW games story missions basically were just free mode missions in a series. The more recent ones pack maps full of must-complete events and it's a little irritating. I miss being able to just cripple an enemy general's morale by murdering so much of his army that my side starts sweeping across the map without me simply due to the extreme morale imbalance. In DW8 I might as well not even have an allied army behind me; it's just me completing a few events here and there and then the mission ends. Very different feel to the game.
 

Caostotale

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Necris Omega said:
Mmm... give me Majora's Mask wrapped in Twilight Princess+ level graphics with the smooth buttery combat system of Wind Waker and I'll be contented forever more. Only thing better would be if they did an extended cut or the like.
I'd sooner take Wind Waker's aesthetic approach with Link to the Past's amount of dungeons and the difficulties and side-questing of the N64 games. As much as I liked Wind Waker, I felt like its back half was a colossal drag through the mud. Twilight Princess' aesthetic was pretty impressive, but it didn't feel entirely necessary. I never tried Skyward Sword, as I've no interest in motion-controlled games.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Shjade said:
Y'know I'd not quite put my finger on the problem I have with Dynasty Warriors 8 and Yahtzee's put it rather nicely in this. It's that feeling that the missions aren't emergent in any way, that there's basically a set way to complete the battle and doing it any other way means failing any number of objectives, which may or may not mean outright failure altogether. Compared with older DW games where the objective is basically just "win" and you can come at it from pretty much whatever angle you want, it feels far more limited. Bothersome.
Sadly, it's actually a step up from 7.

I miss simply crippling an enemy army.
 

Pink Gregory

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Arnoxthe1 said:
You know, I was REALLY hoping this would be like a Ninja Gaiden style Zelda, gameplay wise I mean. But NOOOO, it's a copy of another game with a Zelda paint job over it. And the game it's copying (IMO) isn't even that good. >_>
Considering that Koei Tecmo (Tecmo Koei, whatever) actually worked on this, it's less of a copy and more of an actual -Warriors game.

It is for all intents and purposes a -Warriors game. Just one they collaborated with Nintendo on.
 

Guffe

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UberGott said:
Guffe said:
And Yahtzee, the items can be switched with the arrow pads by pressing to left or right.
He mentions that - and no, it doesn't make it any less awkward needing to pick your thumb up off the left stick to swap to a weapon you'll use to take care of one specific enemy and then not touch the weapons again for 5 minutes.

I wish it were that LZ button I've literally never used after the first map. Dodging > Blocking, by a wide margin at that... then again, maybe that's why I don't Ace all of the Legend Maps?
He mentioned it? o_O
I should probably listen a bit more carefully :p

That would be a good alternative for changing the weapons.
The only time I actually use blocking is against Manhandlas seed attack. Then sometimes against long combos like Volgas spinattack-thingy if I can't get dodge played before the combo...
Can't realy think of any others :/
 

Krige

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As a longtime fan of Dynasty Warriors I can tell you your perception of the series is pretty much spot on :D
 

Nixou

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canadamus_prime said:
I am enjoying the hell out of this game, but I am not without complaints. Like for example, the character you're controlling seems to be the only competent one on the battlefield. It gets exceptionally annoying when I'm in the middle of pursuing the current objective or trying to capture one of the keeps and one of my allies, esp the grunt captains, starts crying for help and more often then not they'll be on the opposite side of the battlefield to where I am.
That's the Dynasty Warrior gameplay in a nutshell: since you only control the generals, the grunts are made useless to not give the player the feeling that that S/He is redundant.
A game which avoided it was Dragon Commander (the divine divinity spinoff): in it your dragon avatar is powerful enough to win tiny skirmishes on its own, but larger battles will demand the regular troops to do most of the heavy lifting, but since the game has both RTS elements on the battlefield, and slow paced Turned Based management between battle, you always feel involved in the events: introducing such elements in Hyrule Warrior would have made the game much more interesting... But then again, we're talking about Team Ninja: they'd probably not touch a slow based strategy game with a ten-foot pole even if they had been given 10 times the budget needed to make such a game
 

kerrowecrisis

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Those plot bits really sound quite funny when you hear about it like that. I really wonder about that one bit about pictures of Link though.
 

maxben

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GamerMage said:
Toblo1 said:
(As my inner self screams "Fuck you Yahtzee") *calmly* As much as I can understand why Yahtzee would shit all over Hyrule warriors, He kinda missed the mark on the original characters thing. Yeah there's the fanservice-y main villain Cia, but there's more than just one original character (Lana, Volga and Wizzro). I know thats not much, but he's kinda blowing it out of proportion by saying there's only one......
Glad to see another sensible opinion here. I kind of had a hunch Yahtzee wouldn't like this, as he's on record as a guy who "doesn't really like JRPGs". Jim might like this though.
If I remember correctly, Jim loved it, but to be fair he is a big fan of the Dynasty Warriors series
 

blackrave

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Yeah, Nintendo is doing same dance again :/
Is there any new IP Nintendo came up with in last few years?

erttheking said:
Racecarlock said:
erttheking said:
Ugh. If you don't like it, fine, but do you really need to shit on the fans?
I'm a COD fan, you get used to it. Hell, you've been here since 2011. How are you not used to it? The only difference is he's shitting on a fan base you may or may not be a part of.
To be honest I feel like he hasn't done it as much as late. I guess my defenses got lower. And I suppose it's also a case of a straw that broke the camel's back
Then get a new camel.
Or stop watching ZP.
It's simple really.
 

Aristatide

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V4Viewtiful said:
CelestDaer said:
V4Viewtiful said:
I won't be a satisfied Zelda Fan till we get a HD remake of Majora's Mask. :mad:
You'll probably find that in the trash bin right next to SquareEnix's (can't believe I had to go back and edit that...) remake of FF7...
If the crappy FFX can get a HD remake, there's hope. Dammit!
I dunno. They remain committed to not giving us a HD remake of FFXII, and you'd think that would be dirt easy. Also I'd sacrifice goats for it. Seriously, I know where to get some.

Anyway, my point is I don't think we can take much away from the X remake. I don't know what the motivation was, but it doesn't seem to be at all indicative that they're going to do it ever again, no matter how relatively easy (XII) or greatly desired (VII).


canadamus_prime said:
I am enjoying the hell out of this game, but I am not without complaints. Like for example, the character you're controlling seems to be the only competent one on the battlefield. It gets exceptionally annoying when I'm in the middle of pursuing the current objective or trying to capture one of the keeps and one of my allies, esp the grunt captains, starts crying for help and more often then not they'll be on the opposite side of the battlefield to where I am.
To a certain degree, for a Warriors game fan, that's a feature, not a bug.

A good Warriors game is basically a kind of power-fantasy: you are the absolute badass, who mows down normal soldiers like wheat before a combine harvester, where even the most bad-ass named generals and historical figures can eventually be conquered via the technique of running in circles screaming while your musou regenerates. In Warriors-game headspace, every time someone who isn't you defeats a named general, it's disappointing. If you want the allied AI to be competent, you play an Empires expansion.
 

Morbira

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erttheking said:
MrHide-Patten said:
Watching LoZ fans come to a Zero Punctuation video on LoZ, rolling around on the floor whining is like somebody complaining that their third degree burns hurt after they rolled around in gasoline before having a cigarette.

He's not going to suck Zelda's penis for you, get over it, find somebody that does.

Meanwhile I'll wolf it down like sweet strawberry jam... Mmmm, it satisfys the jaded little pigmy that has grown to hate rainbows, kittens and Nintendo.
Pretty sure half the people complaining aren't complaining that he didn't like the game. More that he, you know, called them cunts.
It's dangerous to watch internet videos alone. TAKE THIS: http://www.amazon.com/Boudreauxs-Butt-Paste-oz-Jar/dp/B0009RF8G0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412854832&sr=8-1&keywords=butt+paste
 

Erttheking

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blackrave said:
Yeah, Nintendo is doing same dance again :/
Is there any new IP Nintendo came up with in last few years?

erttheking said:
Racecarlock said:
erttheking said:
Ugh. If you don't like it, fine, but do you really need to shit on the fans?
I'm a COD fan, you get used to it. Hell, you've been here since 2011. How are you not used to it? The only difference is he's shitting on a fan base you may or may not be a part of.
To be honest I feel like he hasn't done it as much as late. I guess my defenses got lower. And I suppose it's also a case of a straw that broke the camel's back
Then get a new camel.
Or stop watching ZP.
It's simple really.
I'd rather keep watching and voice criticisms when appropriate thank you very much:
 

ERaptor

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Oct 4, 2010
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Considering how he treats fans of Battlefield and CoD, I didnt give much on the insult. It's kind of like South Park, he bashes everyone once in a while, so I tend to take no issue with it.

On the subject of the game. I managed around an hour before it got tedious, and I have not booted it up again since. Had the same thing with Dinasty Warriors, so I'm not really surprised.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Jun 17, 2009
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Nixou said:
canadamus_prime said:
I am enjoying the hell out of this game, but I am not without complaints. Like for example, the character you're controlling seems to be the only competent one on the battlefield. It gets exceptionally annoying when I'm in the middle of pursuing the current objective or trying to capture one of the keeps and one of my allies, esp the grunt captains, starts crying for help and more often then not they'll be on the opposite side of the battlefield to where I am.
That's the Dynasty Warrior gameplay in a nutshell: since you only control the generals, the grunts are made useless to not give the player the feeling that that S/He is redundant.
A game which avoided it was Dragon Commander (the divine divinity spinoff): in it your dragon avatar is powerful enough to win tiny skirmishes on its own, but larger battles will demand the regular troops to do most of the heavy lifting, but since the game has both RTS elements on the battlefield, and slow paced Turned Based management between battle, you always feel involved in the events: introducing such elements in Hyrule Warrior would have made the game much more interesting... But then again, we're talking about Team Ninja: they'd probably not touch a slow based strategy game with a ten-foot pole even if they had been given 10 times the budget needed to make such a game
Yeah I get that. It just gets a bit weird when the other playable characters are only competent when I'm controlling them.
 

otakon17

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Jun 21, 2010
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Wow that review...seemed meaner than usual. Even coming from Yahtzee. "You don't have to like something but don't be a dick about it". I think Yahtzee broke on over to "Dick" status with his dislike of Legend of Zelda now. Or maybe I'm just imagining things, I don't know I'm a simpleton.
 

rgrekejin

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Mar 6, 2011
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I've seen a lot of post claiming that "If you don't like Dynasty Warriors, you won't like this game." Frankly, I think that's only half the problem. I think it's also true that you probably won't like this game (and, in fact, will probably be actively repelled by it) if you don't like fanservice for fanservice's sake. Much like how Star Trek: Generations was an objectively terrible movie that Star Trek fans loved because it featured Kirk and Picard IN THE SAME MOVIE!!!~1!, Hyrule Warriors is a game which has nothing much to recommend it save for the fact that it has Zelda characters plastered on it. Seriously, Dynasty Warrior fans, I want you to answer me this question honestly: In the absence of the Zelda characters, was this game really the best expression of the "_____ Warriors" subgenre? Or even a terribly good one? Mario Kart, Nintendo-fanservice aside, is a really good racing game. Smash Brothers is, at worst, a very competent fighting game. Hyrule Warriors is a mediocre example of a genre game, and a genre that most of the people playing Hyrule Warriors would never touch if it didn't have Link plastered on the cover. They are, essentially, buying a game because it has Zelda stickers on it, not because of the game that it is. If this game had been released as, say "Fantasy Warriors", with the same mechanics, story, and gameplay, but without the Zelda characters, it would have come out to a bunch of middling reviews, sold a few copies, and been quickly forgotten by all but a niche audience. And as a critic, the fact that an otherwise pedestrian game can be elevated to must-own status for a lot of people just by slapping the right stickers on it must be galling. That the stickers in question are Zelda stickers, a franchise that for some reason is given more passes than exist in a season of football games, is just icing on the cake.

And people are on here complaining about Yahtzee insulting the fanbase? I'm sorry, is this the first Zeropunctuation video you've ever watched? If it is, this series is probably not for you. If it isn't, then you're the person at the comedy club who laughs hysterically while the comedian mocks everyone else in the crowd, only to turn sullen and red-faced when they say something mean about you. Seriously, don't be that guy. "It's funny until someone does it to me" is a terrible attitude to have towards... well, anything, really.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I actually quite like the Zelda series of games. I think those who recall Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask as among the greatest games of all time are viewing things through rose-colored glasses, but Link to the Past, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess are some of my favorite games. I do think that people are more willing to give a Zelda game a pass for any flaws it may have than they do other series that might make similar errors, mostly for sentimental reasons.
 

Mangue Surfer

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blackrave said:
Yeah, Nintendo is doing same dance again :/
Is there any new IP Nintendo came up with in last few years?
Dozens. The thing is how the human brain perceives information. Ignoring what is necessary to mantain it's internal logic cohesive. Experts call it "confirmatory bias".

So if I list Wii Sports people will say:

"It's casual, don't count."

Pushmo

"It's download only, don't count."

Wonderful 101

" Isn't famous, don't count."

So, in the end, Nintendo can't came up with new IPs even if they are doing it.