Zero Punctuation: Injustice: Gods Among Us

Yahtzee Croshaw

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VortexCortex said:
Unsurprisingly, this concept was explored already, but not in game form (to my knowledge).

In Darkwing Duck Episode 39 "Planet of the Capes" [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX9WtSwGadw] Darkwing finds himself on a planet where everyone is a superhero, thus making the most important person in the world Ordinary Guy [http://darkwingduck.wikia.com/wiki/Ordinary_Guy].

Awesome! Just watched it on the tubes. Pretty hilarious concept :D
Thanks for the heads up.
 

ThrobbingEgo

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Hafrael said:
I don't understand why you use the word "hiding". They've been allowed to have themselves unconstrained by continuity, I would say it's more like being "freed" by the Elseworld's label.
Maybe that was too negative a word.

I'm just saying there wasn't a big red disclaimer on What's So Funny at the time it was published that said "don't worry, this isn't in the mainline continuity." I enjoy Elseworlds comics, but (aside from artistic freedom) it communicates something different when a story is released as part of a character's official history as when a story is released as a 'what if' limited series.

I agree that the big characters in DC/Marvel comics seem sterile to me. Both publishers do release interesting material under their other imprints, though.

Hafrael said:
I haven't read the comic in quite a while, but I do remember having quite a few problems with the way Superman was portrayed. I might be mixing things up with the adaptation as I've seen that more recently, but wasn't it nonsensical that Supes would use his powers to remove the powers of Manchester Black and his friends, but not the actual supervillains? Or even pretend to stoop to their level just to prove a point? I liked it in Kingdom Come because there was so much more pressure, that Superman breaking and going completely nutzoid felt very real.
The 'depowering' bit was in the animation. I believe Superman actually gave Black a concussion, temporarily depowering him. He showed up a couple more times to try to make Superman snap. The rest of The Elite joined with Black's sister and then the Justice league.

It's been a while since I've read Kingdom Come, but I like Mark Waid. (And I can't forget Superman's confrontation with Captain Marvel. Yikes.) Since you're a fan of Kingdom Come you've probably seen Irredeemable, so I'm just going to mention it and nod knowingly instead of asking.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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I can get what Yahtzee says with the game not appealing to fighters as much as it wants. While he did skip over the fact that the move list contains frame data which pros use to help make combos, the game feels broken in aspects. Having played it, multiple characters are broken such as Aquaman and Solomon Grundy with the background objects making possible to make 92% combos in videos found on the net and the specials and supers do feel like they grind the action to a halt.

At the risk of sounding like a 2D fighter elitist, lets compare the game to Persona 4, the Ultimate in Mayonaka Arena, or just Persona 4 Arena in America. The system is designed for high speed combat with one more cancels and bursts allowing for the player to either push forward with damage or turn the tide of battle, most specials having frames of vulnerability with no cutscenes so that they don't feel cheap or slow the action as the opponent can counter and punish and the ultimates are highly punishable and hard to pull off which makes pulling it off more rewarding than in Injustice when a lot of supers can easily be repeated in the same match and do not feel satisfying to pull off because of relative ease.

The game has the want to appeal to the professional scene but the background items, slower actions, and lack of gratification of pulling off supers and ultimates make it seem unlikely

edit: included mention of bursts and elaborated on high speed combat
 

Sheo_Dagana

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I liked the alternate world for no reason other than it gave us a good excuse to see some Hero on Hero action. Some of the changes were even interesting, like the thing with Damian Wayne.

But at the end of the day, most mainstream superheroes from Marvel/DC are fairly bland to me. There's never much depth and any depth added seems to be there only for the melodrama. I get why people can like them, I think it's just the bizarre clusterfuck that most of these universes become when cross-overs start happening. My favorite comics are ones more like the Walking Dead, Neil Gaiman's Sandman, and Y the Last Man.

Still, I like Injustice. I have own and play it pretty often with my friends, but who knows how long it'll hold our attention.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Jman1236 said:
Neverrealms next game should be Street Fighter x Mortal Kombat.
what about a crossover with Arc System Works, Capcom and Neverrealms to make a Street Fighter x Mortal Kombat x Marvel x DC x Guilty Gear x Persona 4 x Blazblue game. Multiple characters to choose from, hundreds of combinations for dream battles and , if you can keep the individual games' controls and mechanics in the cross over, you can have debates on which game mechanics and characters are the best.

P.S. I know of Mugen but it seems to be limited in some aspects
 

Aardvaarkman

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Yes, I'm sure that sound at the end of the video was hands clapping, and certainly not another body part doing something that rhymes with clapping.
 

Not G. Ivingname

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Yahtzee Croshaw said:
Injustice: Gods Among Us

This week, Zero Punctuation reviews Injustice: Gods Among Us.

Watch Video
Killer Frost is basically the female version of Dr. Freeze (except with out the interesting motivations and more murder happy) but instead of facing off against Batman she is the main villain of a C-list hero named Firestorm.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Again, Yahtzee reviews a game he doesn't understand, and then complains about things he doesn't understand.

The Wager system can hardly be called a "Quick Time Event" so much as a gambling mechanic. Both players gamble parts of their Super Meter, and whoever gambles more "wins" the clash and gets a portion of their health back, making it a valuable strategic move if you're down in health but further along on the Super Meter than your opponent. They are no more "QTEs" than any other button or skill in the game. In fact they're far less of a QTE than most fighting games, which resolve such brawls by awarding victory to whoever smashes the designated buttons the fastest and hardest.

He complains about the powers that "seem to do nothing" but color the character in a distinct haze, even though it doesn't take much thought to realize that maybe those skills are passive buffs. I figured it out while watching Channel Awesome's playthrough, I wasn't even playing the game and I was able to figure it out. And it only takes a few seconds longer to look the buffs up. One would think Yahtzee could figure this sort of thing out on his own, but apparently not.

Complaining about the fact that the story is an Elseworlds story is....especially silly, considering that there is no universe in which DC would allow the regular Superman to become irredeemably evil without declaring it total non-canon (incidentally, he praises the Arkham games for not being an "Elseworlds" story, but those are not considered part of official DC canon, so functionally it's pretty much the same damn thing). Don't blame the game's writers, blame DC for being afraid to change things, and blame comic book fans for being afraid of change.

And as for the immersion complaints and how the Supers are "too ridiculous"....
Trishbot said:
Immersion?

I'm a robot fighting a four-armed dragon lady and her lizard-man partner. Seconds earlier, I was a police officer shooting fifty bullets into the head of a flying mystic ninja while a literal god of lightning was dive-bombing a centaur through the floor. Later, I proceeded to rip a man with a laser eye in half with nothing but my bare hands shortly before being teleported to a fight in hell itself with a demonic white-skinned sorcerer that can summon a throne made of human bones wherever he goes.

... And the X-ray moves are the things that breaks the immersion?
Ding. We have a winner.

Yahtzee really should stick to playing games that he can understand. It's not as fun to watch him complain about games that he doesn't, because I just spend the time sitting here thinking "no, that isn't how the game works" instead of laughing at his jokes.
 

Lunar Templar

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Thunderous Cacophony said:
You could at least give Catwoman kudos for having finally saved up enough to buy clothes that actually zip up, as opposed to Arkham City where it seemed like a deep breath would push the game into Custer's Revenge territory.
Her super power is not falling out of that suit when dangled upside down by Two Face.
lies....

every female superhero/villain can do that, its a mandatory skill
 

Starker

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Muspelheim said:
I'm pining for a game where you play as one of the civilians in the DC/Marvel universe.
Maybe you could play a... Bicycle Repair Man!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxfzm9dfqBw
 

ResonanceSD

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WONK killed me at the end. The game's entire premise seems pretty meh, but given that I don't own a PS3, it's not like I'd get it anyway.
 

ResonanceSD

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Lunar Templar said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Thunderous Cacophony said:
You could at least give Catwoman kudos for having finally saved up enough to buy clothes that actually zip up, as opposed to Arkham City where it seemed like a deep breath would push the game into Custer's Revenge territory.
Her super power is not falling out of that suit when dangled upside down by Two Face.
lies....

every female superhero/villain can do that, its a mandatory skill
Relevant Calvin and Hobbes




It's slightly sad that it's been the trope since when this was written.
 

Coreless

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Izanagi009 said:
I can get what Yahtzee says with the game not appealing to fighters as much as it wants. While he did skip over the fact that the move list contains frame data which pros use to help make combos, the game feels broken in aspects. Having played it, multiple characters are broken such as Aquaman and Solomon Grundy with the background objects making possible to make 92% combos in videos found on the net and the specials and supers do feel like they grind the action to a halt.

At the risk of sounding like a 2D fighter elitist, lets compare the game to Persona 4, the Ultimate in Mayonaka Arena, or just Persona 4 Arena in America. The system is designed for high speed combat with one more cancels and bursts allowing for the player to either push forward with damage or turn the tide of battle, most specials having frames of vulnerability with no cutscenes so that they don't feel cheap or slow the action as the opponent can counter and punish and the ultimates are highly punishable and hard to pull off which makes pulling it off more rewarding than in Injustice when a lot of supers can easily be repeated in the same match and do not feel satisfying to pull off because of relative ease.

The game has the want to appeal to the professional scene but the background items, slower actions, and lack of gratification of pulling off supers and ultimates make it seem unlikely

edit: included mention of bursts and elaborated on high speed combat
Hate to break it to you but nobody, I mean nobody uses super moves outside of the story mode, meter is too important to waste on that when it comes to becoming a serious injustice player. This game requires serious zoning and player reads in order to win against top players.

"The game has the want to appeal to the professional scene but the background items, slower actions, and lack of gratification of pulling off supers and ultimates make it seem unlikely"

That sentence alone shows you don't anything about how this game plays at the top tier, background items are being used in tournaments already and are looked at just another weapon in a players arsenal. This game is not a capcom game so it shouldn't even be treated as such, super moves are not important to when it comes to knowing how to synergize your combos and traits. Tournament play is going to boil down to who knows their character and who can control the match through proper zoning and player skill.

This game is already well on it way to becoming another staple tournament game. Sure there are some classes that are dominating right now but that is as easy as a patch to change and one is coming soon its almost guaranteed as this point that the top tier characters wont remain that way.

If you want to see what top tournament play is going to look like, look no further then Team Spooky. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vk66M7SOF4
 

chozo_hybrid

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The tutorial lets you skip any part you're having trouble with...

I'm not surprised at his view on it, he's never been all that into fighting games. That said, his review was entertaining as usual. WONK!

Diablo1099 said:
Splitzi said:
I don't think he was concerned about the health the other player lost, but that they could even keep fighting at all. The bones are so severely damaged there is no way they could possible use that limb or section of their body again in the fight. When a player gets right back up from an injury that severe and doesn't show any sign that it's affecting them it seems like immersion is slapping you in the face.
If that is the case, I've yet to hear someone complain in MVC when Iron Man pulls out a gun that's twice his size and blasts you into next week.
Hell, Even in Street Fighter, one Spinning Pile Diver from Zangief should be enough to end the fight and one of Cammy's Ultras snaps someones neck.
The X-Ray moves function exactly the same as any other Super Combo, only they are a lot more brutal to fit with the over the top Gore in Mortal Kombat.
Not to mention there's a reason in the plot that everyone can withstand a bit more punishment then usual.
 

Something Amyss

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Lunar Templar said:
lies....

every female superhero/villain can do that, its a mandatory skill
Hey, it may be the most common superpower [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostCommonSuperPower], but it's still a superpower.
 

sXeth

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Tohuvabohu said:
I was waiting for that one line which would be a dead give-away of Yahtzee's poor grasp on fighting games. And it came when he admitted he couldn't pull off a bounce cancel.

The amount of shortcomings Yahtzee had in this game don't surprise me, since his grasp and understanding on fighting games is about the same as my dog, these sort of videos come off more as an extended 'I don't know what this is' rant than an actual critique on the game itself.
I think he kind of blew it when he thought Clashes were a QTE.

Its an alrightish review in a humor sense, but basically has about as much relevance to the game as the aforementioend covers of Silver age Superman did to the comics. He gets a few points in the storyline, that falls right out the window in any sense of the gameplay. I have no idea why they bothered with all the over-explicit alt-universing anyhow, Arkham was alt-universe too (it has no canon bearing) but didn't go screaming about it with an intro quote seven seconds in.
 

Sergey Sund

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CriticKitten said:
He complains about the powers that "seem to do nothing" but color the character in a distinct haze, even though it doesn't take much thought to realize that maybe those skills are passive buffs. I figured it out while watching Channel Awesome's playthrough, I wasn't even playing the game and I was able to figure it out. And it only takes a few seconds longer to look the buffs up. One would think Yahtzee could figure this sort of thing out on his own, but apparently not.

And as for the immersion complaints and how the Supers are "too ridiculous"....
Trishbot said:
Immersion?

I'm a robot fighting a four-armed dragon lady and her lizard-man partner. Seconds earlier, I was a police officer shooting fifty bullets into the head of a flying mystic ninja while a literal god of lightning was dive-bombing a centaur through the floor. Later, I proceeded to rip a man with a laser eye in half with nothing but my bare hands shortly before being teleported to a fight in hell itself with a demonic white-skinned sorcerer that can summon a throne made of human bones wherever he goes.

... And the X-ray moves are the things that breaks the immersion?
Ding. We have a winner.

Yahtzee really should stick to playing games that he can understand. It's not as fun to watch him complain about games that he doesn't, because I just spend the time sitting here thinking "no, that isn't how the game works" instead of laughing at his jokes.
I'd like to address 3 points in a polite criticism:
1) Yahtzee is basically not allowed to "look up" things for his reviews. He needs to judge the game on its own merrits, with no prior or additional knowledge. This is because you pay upwards $60 for a product, and not for that product PLUS a wikipedia article.
So when the game does not explain what those red buffs are then Yahtzee must complain. You play the game and have no idea what's happening - even when you pay attention as close as a professional reviewer? - then that's not the player's fault.
2) The X-ray moves are still a problem. Even with all the out-of-this-world fights happening all around you, the X-ray thing must pull you out of immersion. It's not about how deep your immersion is - it's about anomalies within the game withing the DC universe.
Following comic physics and DC in-universe rules, all these heroes can exist, these fights can happen exactly as they are .... EXCEPT for the X-ray moves. Even Superman can't use his arm when the bones are completely fractured. Batman with a pulverised shoulder can't throw his Batarang, let alone lift his arm.
These things break the logic of comic physics and are therefore suspencion-of-disbelief-killers.
3) As for Yahtzee not understanding a game. Yes, that is always valid criticism. Consider, though, that Yahtzee has only one week to prepare this show, the column, the poem-bit with Jim Sterling, plus all the other stuff I don't know about. So, even in that week, he can't play the game as often and as thoroughly as he'd like.
However, I don't think that is the case here. But since I can't argue that (I have played maybe an hour of the game) I'm gonna defer to you for this, and if "the game doesn't work like that" long-term, then IDK.
Still, the special attacks are a bit lengthy for my taste.

Thanks and good night.
 

PunkRex

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Wait, this is a fighting game... thats some mighty fine advertising you did there 'Injustise: Gods Among Us'.
 

Darth_Payn

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Yahtzee, this is one of your funiest videos this YEAR! You raised a good point about how fighting games are letting you truly fight less and less. And some of us still like our superhero comic books, thank you very much.
Not G. Ivingname said:
Yahtzee Croshaw said:
Injustice: Gods Among Us

This week, Zero Punctuation reviews Injustice: Gods Among Us.

Watch Video
Killer Frost is basically the female version of Dr. Freeze (except with out the interesting motivations and more murder happy) but instead of facing off against Batman she is the main villain of a C-list hero named Firestorm.
I thought Killer Frost was a Green Arrow villain.
Zachary Amaranth said:
Lunar Templar said:
lies....

every female superhero/villain can do that, its a mandatory skill
Hey, it may be the most common superpower [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostCommonSuperPower], but it's still a superpower.
Oh no. you FOOL! Do you realize what you just opened?!