Zero Punctuation: Injustice: Gods Among Us
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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I've always been a fan of the Street Fighter series personally. They have FAR less emphasis on some convoluted story and focus instead on the mechanics of the fight. The stories there for you to enjoy, but it's never thrown in your face. Older MK games used to be like this but after the transition to xbox, things have kind of gone down hill.
High level play in Street Fighter is an excellent experience, and an arcade stick ridiculously satisfying once you get the hang of it. MK and these DC fighters just doesn't do that for me. Damn shame Yahtzee doesn't enjoy fighting games though. I'd love to have a crack at him online.
High level play in Street Fighter is an excellent experience, and an arcade stick ridiculously satisfying once you get the hang of it. MK and these DC fighters just doesn't do that for me. Damn shame Yahtzee doesn't enjoy fighting games though. I'd love to have a crack at him online.
I was waiting for that one line which would be a dead give-away of Yahtzee's poor grasp on fighting games. And it came when he admitted he couldn't pull off a bounce cancel.
The amount of shortcomings Yahtzee had in this game don't surprise me, since his grasp and understanding on fighting games is about the same as my dog, these sort of videos come off more as an extended 'I don't know what this is' rant than an actual critique on the game itself.
The amount of shortcomings Yahtzee had in this game don't surprise me, since his grasp and understanding on fighting games is about the same as my dog, these sort of videos come off more as an extended 'I don't know what this is' rant than an actual critique on the game itself.
I'm not sure what ASSman is referring to, but you'll notice that the other two are Elseworlds.Hafrael said:
Instead of making a point that superman's only interesting when he's in an alternate universe where he's pitted in a battle of ideals against different styles of heroes, I'm going to mention 'What's So Funny About Truth, Justice & the American Way' (which is a battle of ideals that also happens to be canonical). It was recently adapted into Superman vs The Elite.
I'm pining for a game where you play as one of the civilians in the DC/Marvel universe.
You're just trying to get back home from work or down the shops to buy milk, but keep having to dodge the falling skyscrapers the supertwats keep knocking over in battle.
It'd be an interesting new take on the whole Stockholm Syndrome thing. Who are you going to sympathise with, when both supersides keeps superruining your day? And how would the superheroes and villains look from down there, on the street, from the perspective of a guy who just had his car smashed by an errant billboard casually thrown from the frey?
You're just trying to get back home from work or down the shops to buy milk, but keep having to dodge the falling skyscrapers the supertwats keep knocking over in battle.
It'd be an interesting new take on the whole Stockholm Syndrome thing. Who are you going to sympathise with, when both supersides keeps superruining your day? And how would the superheroes and villains look from down there, on the street, from the perspective of a guy who just had his car smashed by an errant billboard casually thrown from the frey?
I don't like the gameplay of MK, so it wasn't a surprise that I wasn't really impressed with what Injustice had to offer. The gameplay feels cluncky and there seems is a lot of unneeded down time with the animations and transitions. I do have to give the game credit with their tutorials and the information they provide. It is the first game that gives the framedata in the game itself, which is really useful for the high level players. But I can finally start with Persona 4 arena soon and I am really looking forward to the Tekken X Streetfighter game that will be hopefully released soon enough.
That's a sad fact of the modern Marvel/DC model, I don't think any character is interesting when not in an elseworlds. When writers are so chained to continuity there is little they can do, and not much they can change or explore. You don't get the exploration of Superman's humanity and how it clashes with his divinity like in Kingdom Come.ThrobbingEgo said:I'm not sure what ASSman is referring to, but you'll notice that the other two are Elseworlds.Hafrael said:
Instead of making a point that superman's only interesting when he's in an alternate universe where he's pitted in a battle of ideals against different styles of heroes, I'm going to mention 'What's So Funny About Truth, Justice & the American Way' (which is a battle of ideals that also happens to be canonical). It was recently adapted into Superman vs The Elite.
Yes there are some fun stories, but they don't do much more than that and that's disappointing. But, to imply that this is in someway a defect unique to Superman is either disingenuous or ignorant.
What's So Funny exists in an empty world where no other super powered people have a similar doctrine, it might as well be an elseworlds. (Also I don't believe it is canon anymore. Plus if you were looking for some other amazing stories that were canon you could do a lot better, Alan Moore's For the Man Who Has Everything is phenomenal.)
ASSman is my fun little abbreviation for All-Star Superman, my favorite comic of all time, and IMO the definitive work in the Super Hero genre.
Unsurprisingly, this concept was explored already, but not in game form (to my knowledge).Muspelheim said:
In Darkwing Duck Episode 39 "Planet of the Capes" [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX9WtSwGadw] Darkwing finds himself on a planet where everyone is a superhero, thus making the most important person in the world Ordinary Guy [http://darkwingduck.wikia.com/wiki/Ordinary_Guy].
Actually Yahtzee any section of the tutorial can be skipped so I don't know where you got this idea that it wouldn't let you leave from. I skipped a fair few parts of it myself and still got the achievement for doing it for some reason.
I don't think he was concerned about the health the other player lost, but that they could even keep fighting at all. The bones are so severely damaged there is no way they could possible use that limb or section of their body again in the fight. When a player gets right back up from an injury that severe and doesn't show any sign that it's affecting them it seems like immersion is slapping you in the face.Diablo1099 said:
Immersion?Splitzi said:
I'm a robot fighting a four-armed dragon lady and her lizard-man partner. Seconds earlier, I was a police officer shooting fifty bullets into the head of a flying mystic ninja while a literal god of lightning was dive-bombing a centaur through the floor. Later, I proceeded to rip a man with a laser eye in half with nothing but my bare hands shortly before being teleported to a fight in hell itself with a demonic white-skinned sorcerer that can summon a throne made of human bones wherever he goes.
... And the X-ray moves are the things that breaks the immersion?
If that is the case, I've yet to hear someone complain in MVC when Iron Man pulls out a gun that's twice his size and blasts you into next week.Splitzi said:
Hell, Even in Street Fighter, one Spinning Pile Diver from Zangief should be enough to end the fight and one of Cammy's Ultras snaps someones neck.
The X-Ray moves function exactly the same as any other Super Combo, only they are a lot more brutal to fit with the over the top Gore in Mortal Kombat.
Just because something was retconed (or just doesn't make sense) doesn't mean it wasn't ever canon in mainline continuity. It was published in Adventure Comics, without hiding behind an Elseworld's label. While I'm sure there are better Superman stories, his conflict with Manchester Black defines Superman's character, his abilities, and what he stands for.Hafrael said:
In terms of Elsewords, I thought All-Star Superman was okay. I liked the reinterpretation of Silver Age Superman overall (and Frank Quitely's art, as always), but the quirky self-contained stories were hit and miss for me. The highlight for me was probably the issue with Kent visiting Lex in prison, but I found Leo's inclusion in some of the other stories a little offputting. (I get that he's a foil for Lex, I just wasn't crazy about the character.)
I haven't checked out For The Man Who Has Everything, but I'll take a look. I've also heard good things about Superman Birthright (which oddly started out as non-canonical, became canonical, and is no longer canonical).
In terms of canonical mainline DC stories I like, I was a fan of Grant Morrison's run on Batman & Robin. Of course it's not big B-batman: it's Dick Grayson as Batman, trying to fill Bruce's shoes, with Bruce's psychopathic son as Robin. Still an excellent story.
Well, it was mostly at the end, but said ending does shake up the status quo a good bit, and it has a very visible effect on Batman, mostly seen in the Harley's Revenge DLC. It's a pretty interesting change that would force a different villain perspectie in the next game.Akratus said:
So then they start making a prequel.
I don't understand why you use the word "hiding". They've been allowed to have themselves unconstrained by continuity, I would say it's more like being "freed" by the Elseworld's label.ThrobbingEgo said:
I haven't read the comic in quite a while, but I do remember having quite a few problems with the way Superman was portrayed. I might be mixing things up with the adaptation as I've seen that more recently, but wasn't it nonsensical that Supes would use his powers to remove the powers of Manchester Black and his friends, but not the actual supervillains? Or even pretend to stoop to their level just to prove a point? I liked it in Kingdom Come because there was so much more pressure, that Superman breaking and going completely nutzoid felt very real.
I disagree with you, but oh well that's just opinions. But at least we can agree Quitely was amazing, his panel layout and movement is second to none.
I highly recommend birthright, I don't think it stands up to the first four panels of ASSman, but as far as origin stories go it's top knotch. Also a lot of it is being used as inspiration for the new Man of Steel movie!
Aside from Superman I don't read much DC but I also really liked Dickbats, the new Batwing stuff is also pretty good (though I haven't been following it closely).
Maybe that was too negative a word.Hafrael said:
I'm just saying there wasn't a big red disclaimer on What's So Funny at the time it was published that said "don't worry, this isn't in the mainline continuity." I enjoy Elseworlds comics, but (aside from artistic freedom) it communicates something different when a story is released as part of a character's official history as when a story is released as a 'what if' limited series.
I agree that the big characters in DC/Marvel comics seem sterile to me. Both publishers do release interesting material under their other imprints, though.
The 'depowering' bit was in the animation. I believe Superman actually gave Black a concussion, temporarily depowering him. He showed up a couple more times to try to make Superman snap. The rest of The Elite joined with Black's sister and then the Justice league.Hafrael said:
It's been a while since I've read Kingdom Come, but I like Mark Waid. (And I can't forget Superman's confrontation with Captain Marvel. Yikes.) Since you're a fan of Kingdom Come you've probably seen Irredeemable, so I'm just going to mention it and nod knowingly instead of asking.
I can get what Yahtzee says with the game not appealing to fighters as much as it wants. While he did skip over the fact that the move list contains frame data which pros use to help make combos, the game feels broken in aspects. Having played it, multiple characters are broken such as Aquaman and Solomon Grundy with the background objects making possible to make 92% combos in videos found on the net and the specials and supers do feel like they grind the action to a halt.
At the risk of sounding like a 2D fighter elitist, lets compare the game to Persona 4, the Ultimate in Mayonaka Arena, or just Persona 4 Arena in America. The system is designed for high speed combat with one more cancels and bursts allowing for the player to either push forward with damage or turn the tide of battle, most specials having frames of vulnerability with no cutscenes so that they don't feel cheap or slow the action as the opponent can counter and punish and the ultimates are highly punishable and hard to pull off which makes pulling it off more rewarding than in Injustice when a lot of supers can easily be repeated in the same match and do not feel satisfying to pull off because of relative ease.
The game has the want to appeal to the professional scene but the background items, slower actions, and lack of gratification of pulling off supers and ultimates make it seem unlikely
edit: included mention of bursts and elaborated on high speed combat
At the risk of sounding like a 2D fighter elitist, lets compare the game to Persona 4, the Ultimate in Mayonaka Arena, or just Persona 4 Arena in America. The system is designed for high speed combat with one more cancels and bursts allowing for the player to either push forward with damage or turn the tide of battle, most specials having frames of vulnerability with no cutscenes so that they don't feel cheap or slow the action as the opponent can counter and punish and the ultimates are highly punishable and hard to pull off which makes pulling it off more rewarding than in Injustice when a lot of supers can easily be repeated in the same match and do not feel satisfying to pull off because of relative ease.
The game has the want to appeal to the professional scene but the background items, slower actions, and lack of gratification of pulling off supers and ultimates make it seem unlikely
edit: included mention of bursts and elaborated on high speed combat
I liked the alternate world for no reason other than it gave us a good excuse to see some Hero on Hero action. Some of the changes were even interesting, like the thing with Damian Wayne.
But at the end of the day, most mainstream superheroes from Marvel/DC are fairly bland to me. There's never much depth and any depth added seems to be there only for the melodrama. I get why people can like them, I think it's just the bizarre clusterfuck that most of these universes become when cross-overs start happening. My favorite comics are ones more like the Walking Dead, Neil Gaiman's Sandman, and Y the Last Man.
Still, I like Injustice. I have own and play it pretty often with my friends, but who knows how long it'll hold our attention.
But at the end of the day, most mainstream superheroes from Marvel/DC are fairly bland to me. There's never much depth and any depth added seems to be there only for the melodrama. I get why people can like them, I think it's just the bizarre clusterfuck that most of these universes become when cross-overs start happening. My favorite comics are ones more like the Walking Dead, Neil Gaiman's Sandman, and Y the Last Man.
Still, I like Injustice. I have own and play it pretty often with my friends, but who knows how long it'll hold our attention.