Zero Punctuation: Left 4 Dead 2 & New Super Mario Bros Wii

[yourbeliefs]

One of the better ones in a while.

I have NSMBW at home now with Gamefly, and after watching Yahtzee's review I actually became angry while I was playing it, thinking about the incredible LACK of innovation with the game, and comparing it to SMB3 and SMBW. I originally picked it up since it had been a while since I played a traditional Mario side-scroller, but the I was shocked when I found how much stuff was recycled from previous games. I can understand using traditional sound and music, but when you have the EXACT same things from SMB3/W (Ghost houses, beating a Koopa kid by jumping on it 3 times, Mushroom houses with card games that aren't dynamic, etc etc) it just comes across as lazy and almost insulting. I suppose this game will be credited for a boost in sales of SMB3 and SMBW because people will remember how good THOSE games were in comparison and want to relive them as a result. Now I'm kicking myself for not returning this game in time to open a slot up for Silent Hill: Shattered Memories. Can't wait for Yahtzee to review that one. Something tells me though he'll have an overall negative view of it.

 

[Tweekus]

As much as I understand the motivation behind lumping these two games together, and the useful contrast they provide (stagnation in NSMBW vs. the mild but slightly underwhelming progress in L4D2), I feel like at least in L4D2's case this means the review was somewhat cursory. While I am unsurprised that the significant graphical upgrade from the original remains unmentioned (though I went back to play L4D after about a week at L4D2 and was appalled by how ugly it looked), there's really more the second than I expected going in. Despite your distaste for multiplayer(understandable), the new modes bear some mention. I'm also a little surprised you didn't say anything about the melee weapons all behaving roughly the same except for the particular flavor of gore they--Oh right. Man, I love living in the States sometimes.

TL;DR: Feel like L4D2 should have gotten its own review, but I understand why you paired the games you did. I 'spose there's only so thorough you can be in roughly 6 minutes.

 

[StigmataDiaboli]

I have to agree with Yahtzee's New Super Mario Bro Wii comment; 'Super Mario World was better.'

 

[Basslover]

Why do people like playing old games? The graphics and gameplay are inherently worse, there is literally nothing good about them other than being able to recall fond memories. And as I've said, that usually is a giant-ass let down as you are left wondering how you have fond memories of something that looks like cat barf and handles like bricks in a balloon.

Really? if that's the case then shouldn't Little big Planet play better than SMB3 or SMB!, new doesn't mean better, graphics yeah, but gameplay?, nope, if not WHY people play those games, if not of a definition of queality but because the gamplay is fun, and again the almost 20 million copies of nsmb ds tell the story, if you don't like them, fine, but don't put them down when there is a HUGE population that likes them. Heck i don't like FPS but im not whinning about why 13 millions of people played COD MW1, is their genre not mine.

same here with mario, some people just like arcades like, pin point precision control and rewarding feeling of skill of an gud ol' plataformer, after all these are GAMES things made to be fun is the game is not fun i don't care how inmersive it is.

 

[Basslover]

Mazty:

same here with mario, some people just like arcades like, pin point precision control and rewarding feeling of skill of an gud ol' plataformer, after all these are GAMES things made to be fun is the game is not fun i don't care how inmersive it is.

Awesome, totally agree with the Mario comment. Worst is...why are people buying it?? Really? Last time I checked, nostalgia is best left as a memory. I loved driver, went back to it, and christ, what a mess of a game. I should have just left is as a pleasant memory...

Probably for the same reason that people buy games off the Virtual Console.

I.e. that plenty of people actually do like to go back to the old games.

On the other hand, Super Mario World IS on the Virtual Console...

THough that's not answering the question...
Why do people like playing old games? The graphics and gameplay are inherently worse, there is literally nothing good about them other than being able to recall fond memories. And as I've said, that usually is a giant-ass let down as you are left wondering how you have fond memories of something that looks like cat barf and handles like bricks in a balloon...

Really? if that's the case then shouldn't Little big Planet play better than SMB3 or SMB!, new doesn't mean better, graphics yeah, but gameplay?, nope, if not WHY people play those games, if not of a definition of queality but because the gamplay is fun, and again the almost 20 million copies of nsmb ds tell the story, if you don't like them, fine, but don't put them down when there is a HUGE population that likes them. Heck i don't like FPS but im not whinning about why 13 millions of people played COD MW1, is their genre not mine.

same here with mario, some people just like arcades like, pin point precision control and rewarding feeling of skill of an gud ol' plataformer, after all these are GAMES things made to be fun is the game is not fun i don't care how inmersive it is.

 

[Mentalist]

L4D2 is worth every dollar in my opinion:
- Better characterisation and script (where the original had little to none of that, really)
- Better (and prettier) maps
- The new SI make versus much more interesting
- Gauntlet crescendos make versus much more interesting
- Melee weapons are fun!

But don't buy it if you don't want to. It's your money.

It always shocks me how so many people hate on games which they have never played. Play the damn game first before you make judgments.

by changing a couple of numbers and making a shortcut you can have your L4D2 in all of its gory!

This.

 

[WraithGadra]

You know, I completely forgot about the Extra Punctuation on Generic games [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/6516-Extra-Punctuation-On-Generic-Games] when I posted before. Given that NSMBWii is a high profile standard-bearer for this kind of design philosophy, why does it receive the vitriol that it does?

 

[yourbeliefs]

THough that's not answering the question...
Why do people like playing old games? The graphics and gameplay are inherently worse, there is literally nothing good about them other than being able to recall fond memories. And as I've said, that usually is a giant-ass let down as you are left wondering how you have fond memories of something that looks like cat barf and handles like bricks in a balloon...

Because some of them are just good games. People don't just play old games for nostalgia value. Yes, some games hold up better than others, but a truly good game will keep being good. I recently played Monkey Island 1 & 2 (NOT the remade versions, but the old SCUMM renditions) and while the game looked and sounded like shit, it was still fun and compelling enough to suck me in. By your logic, all games, regardless of how good they inherently are, will turn into shit as time goes on because something better will come out eventually.

 

[Tweekus]

You know, I completely forgot about the Extra Punctuation on Generic games [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/6516-Extra-Punctuation-On-Generic-Games] when I posted before. Given that NSMBWii is a high profile standard-bearer for this kind of design philosophy, why does it receive the vitriol that it does?

I think he makes a distinction between a generic game that is not already a franchise and a game that is one of a long line of games within a franchise that REFUSES to try anything new.

 

[Basslover]

You know, I completely forgot about the Extra Punctuation on Generic games [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/6516-Extra-Punctuation-On-Generic-Games] when I posted before. Given that NSMBWii is a high profile standard-bearer for this kind of design philosophy, why does it receive the vitriol that it does?

I think he makes a distinction between a generic game that is not already a franchise and a game that is one of a long line of games within a franchise that REFUSES to try anything new.

Anything new?, who about being able to play the whole "campaign" in coop/competive local multiplayer, with the same precision of solo playing for 1-4 players without spilt screen.

being the first 2d mario console game in like 18 years?

 

[Shadow_Kid]

well i wonder what he thinks about NMH2 replacing the mini games with 8-bit technology

 

[rize]

It's true that L4D2 is little more than a large expansion for L4D. They couldn't even come up with an alternate "boss" zombie to replace the tank. However, considering L4D was still fun to play the day before L4D2 came out, that's not exactly unwelcome.

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

HAH! that was funny!

 

[Motakikurushi]

Once again, Yahtzee has bestowed some poignant wisdom regarding the worst gaming company in recent history. Never in my life have I heard of a more absolutely retarded concept than 'New Super Mario Bros DS on the Wii', because that's all it is really; repackage a previously released title (which has been released prior New Super Mario Bros Wii about a billion times) and sell it again. How the hell could anybody have bought this? If Darwin's theory of evolution could be applied to Video Games then Nintendo should technically not exist. They become more powerful the more repetitive and unoriginal they are. I heartily look forward to 'New New Super Mario Bros DS' and 'New New Super Mario Bros DS on the Wii'.

Oh, and L4D2 does fall into this hole as well, but I'm willing to forgive Valve because they've actually released something original in the past decade.

Really? So the DS, Nintendogs, Brain Age, the Wii, Wii Sports and Wii Fit don't qualify as 'original'? What does under your definition, because it's different than the one I'm familiar with.

As for the video, some complaints about the two games are valid, but I strongly disagree with the closing rant about how NSMBWii "has no right to exist". What are you trying to say with that statement, Yahtzee? That Mario games shouldn't exist, or that 2d platformers shouldn't exist, or something else entirely? Also, you seem to have taken a 180 from your position that Nintendo "couldn't be bothered" to make Mario and Zelda games anymore, what happened to facilitate that?

I see. So, flailing your arms around, shouting and doing maths is original. What I mean is Portal, Half Life 2, Psychonauts, Earthbound, all games that tried something unique, stylish and 'original' and a majority of the time have gotten their heads kicked in for it. The reason the Wii is still doing so well is idiots fail to recognise that Nintendo are selling the same products consecutively in different colours. I didn't even mention the concept of a Nintendo game apart from NSMBW being unoriginal, but now that you've mentioned it...

What I'm getting at is it's the same damn game that us kiddies played on the NES, except with some different features. Of course I think the DS is original. Why do you think I still play it? Among all of the utter tripe Nintendo has bestowed the DS is still to this day 'redeemable'. Of course, Yahtzee didn't say all Mario games/2D platformers are unoriginal, how the hell did you garner that assumption? He was attacking NSMBW and it got what it deserved. My point is the word 'New' used in the title is ironic to say the least. The game is just a joke. If it has nothing new to offer then why purchase it at all? Dust off that old Mario Bros 3 cartridge and get the same experience.

 

[some1stolemyusername]

i played the demo, was enough for me not to bother with the game.

 

[Russian_Assassin]

Dammit! The videos have been made un-downloadable! Whyyyy?! I loved watching ZP on my psp before sleeping! :'(

The review was funny though.

 

[gamepopper101]

All this is coming from a guy who said he liked Super Mario Sunshine more than Super Mario 64...why do I continue to listen to him?

 

[Xom]

I vote Bowser.