Zero Punctuation: Left 4 Dead 2 & New Super Mario Bros Wii

[Unahim]

Immersion is subjective though.

 

[Ienjoygames]

funguy2121 don't keep feeding him. It's pointless.

Wait. I asked you why you have the notion that good old games are always good, regardless of expectations from games increasing time due to innovation and technology, to which your reply was "Because of higher expectations". Surely then that means the overall quality of games is better. Then, logically, if quality is always improving, now that you have foresight, surely the "good old games" aren't good because they are buggy, look bad, and other games do their genre better? It's either that or modern games in your world are all "F**KING AMAZING!" For example you can't say any modern FPS sucks, becuase they all work as FPS' better than doom as they look better, handle better and do the job better (Up, down, left & right) But somehow I think you're part of the mindset whose views won't change regardless of the logic thrown your way, because the universe may implode or something.

I think he was talking about technical expectations, not necessarily enjoyment when he said that. The old games are still enjoyable.

Yeah well, that was kinda what I said.

 

[Ohlookit'sMatty]

So what is left for Mario&Co?!? Retirement?! Because they are all out of ideas for new games // I agree with Yahtzee, even a bad game that tries new things is a step in the right direction because sooner or later someone will try what they did but get it right // An increase of graphics does Not a good game make (yes I know that sentence sounds weird, its an old quote) Make old games look prettier with a few extra things to play with has no place in todays market // Take Batman: Arkham Asylum, yes the game is pretty but that is not why I played/love it so much // It was new, entertaining // Remember when games where entertaining!? Cos I dont, I have to go all the back to when the 360 first came out to find one that have half way fun (Dead Rising) and even further back to find one that was fun, both in game play and story (Stubbs the Zombie)

And there is another thing, Story // Where is the story in Mario anymore? No way he still cares about looking for that princess // Its been 20years Im sure he is over her by now and moved on // And granted L4D2, the story is linked to the game play, ie: its the zombie Apy, run like mad there be Zombies! Which for FPS is not to bad, a big step up from almost every other FPS out there ie: its World War 'pick a number', shoot at everything that is comin towards you

Anyway. . . where was I goin with this. . . oh yes, so They are making a Batman: Arkham Asylum 2, which even if they dont change a single thing within the whole game will still be the best game of 2010(or when ever it comes out) and that my friends is the sign of a really good game when it comes to both Story, design and game play

-M

 

[funguy2121]

Take a poll. You will find that very few people believe Megaman 2 has a superior sequel; in fact you will find people who enjoy megaman games beyond the snes to be extremely scarce. While I disagree, you'll also find a huge number of people who don't think Super Metroid will ever be dethroned by a sequel (I love the prime games).

There is no need to compare older games to newer games. They're fun. Someone can hate on them all they want and it won't make them any less fun. The gamer doesn't have to convince himself he's enjoying the experience more than he actually is because, unlike modern games, the older ones generally don't cost $60-70.

 

[DrDeath3191]

So what is left for Mario&Co?!? Retirement?! Because they are all out of ideas for new games // I agree with Yahtzee, even a bad game that tries new things is a step in the right direction because sooner or later someone will try what they did but get it right // An increase of graphics does Not a good game make (yes I know that sentence sounds weird, its an old quote) Make old games look prettier with a few extra things to play with has no place in todays market // Take Batman: Arkham Asylum, yes the game is pretty but that is not why I played/love it so much // It was new, entertaining // Remember when games where entertaining!? Cos I dont, I have to go all the back to when the 360 first came out to find one that have half way fun (Dead Rising) and even further back to find one that was fun, both in game play and story (Stubbs the Zombie)

And there is another thing, Story // Where is the story in Mario anymore? No way he still cares about looking for that princess // Its been 20years Im sure he is over her by now and moved on // And granted L4D2, the story is linked to the game play, ie: its the zombie Apy, run like mad there be Zombies! Which for FPS is not to bad, a big step up from almost every other FPS out there ie: its World War 'pick a number', shoot at everything that is comin towards you

Anyway. . . where was I goin with this. . . oh yes, so They are making a Batman: Arkham Asylum 2, which even if they dont change a single thing within the whole game will still be the best game of 2010(or when ever it comes out) and that my friends is the sign of a really good game when it comes to both Story, design and game play

-M

I dunno, I think Mario could theoretically blow us away after Galaxy 2. Human imagination is infinite after all. And are you suggesting that a game requires innovation to be good? Then you are a fool. While Mario hasn't flat-out redefined how his jumping and running around work, the games are still enjoyable to play due to the quality of these classic controls.

And story is pretty much unnecessary in a videogame. We don't need strong characters and plot to engage us in a game: all that's truly required is good gameplay and strong level design, which Mario games have in spades.

And you completely contradict yourself by explaining how if Arkham 2 is nothing more than a copy of the first then it will inevitably be a good game. What about that whole spiel about innovation?! You know, "An increase in graphics does not a good game make"?

 

[beema]

UNCLE PHIL!
LOL

Good review. I feel much the same about both games. L4D2 is more of the same, but still good, and Mario is more of the same only majorly fucked up and stupid. Glad you tore it a new one. "New" SMB Wii has some of the WORST multiplayer I've EVER played. Unless of course the object of the game is to get absolutely nowhere and completely fuck over every other player. I also definitely feel like a gimp if I have to play as a Toad. I feel like there are some other, better members of the Mario universe they could have had as playable characters.

 

[jalee]

Because they are all out of ideas for new games // I agree with Yahtzee, even a bad game that tries new things is a step in the right direction...Make old games look prettier with a few extra things to play with has no place in todays market

They are making a Batman: Arkham Asylum 2, which even if they dont change a single thing within the whole game will still be the best game of 2010(or when ever it comes out) and that my friends is the sign of a really good game

You seem to be contradicting yourself here.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

i found L4D to not be my cup of tea, while i LOVE blasting zombies mindlessly (and this game gives me PLENTY of that ) i found some of the things like how how i slowed down whenever i got hit, to be very aggrivating, and when i found it was continued in L4D2 i wasn't happy about it, but i did like the addition of melee weapons (machete the most) and it was a lot more enjoyable visually with the addition of more gore, but overall, i got annoyed with the game (because of my HORRIBLE shooter skills) after getting through one of the parts. but overall, i think i'll still play it a bit here and there in the future and it will still be enjoyable. As for new super mario brothers wii? i liked the original mario games and mario 64 (some of my favorite childhood moments were the ones spent playing super mario world 2 for gameboy) but i think this is just meant for the children, not for people like me (the 2nd generation of mario lovers) or people like my parents (the 1st generation)

 

[Retardinator]

*snip*

The improvements are not in any way minor. New Super Mario Brothers is an upgrade in the way that Super Mario World was an upgrade. If I were wrong and you were right, it wouldn't be the top selling game well into next year, which it will. People are hungry for more classic 2D Mario. If it's not your thing then guess what? You do not have to play it.

Actually, I haven't played a Mario game ever since the SNES.
Maybe it's the fact that Super Mario Galaxy 2 seems like a bland title for some grand sequel, considering what they made up in the past. Then again, how original was Super Mario Bros. 3 in it's titling?
Maybe it just seems so because they churn out Mario/Zelda/Metroid games a bit too often, and the repertoire gets a bit thin.
I'm not saying don't put out new-old games, I'm saying invent something new that has that ancient Nintendo spark .

 

[Kinokiro]

Now, I'm going to go against most of the argument here for a sec...

I was a huge fan of the New Super Mario Bros games. I loved the one on DS, and I love the one on Wii.

It's a fresh perspective on the stale 2D gameplay, in my opinion. Sure, I could play Super Mario World, but it's dated.

The New SMB franchise has more to do, simply put. It takes the game from the DS (which most wii owners probably don't have) and brings a great experience to the Wii. I prefer the single player over the multiplayer (mainly because my friends suck at Mario and constantly get in the way...) and it brings in elements from all the past Mario games. Arcade Mario, Super Mario 3, World 1 and 2 and 64.

I like the addition of the Ice Flower and the Penguin suit, I would have liked the other suits in there from SMB3 but at least it's new.

If you're not a Mario fan, then of course this game won't be for you. But if you enjoyed the past titles, then this brings a fun and challenging game with plenty of nostalgia.

And it's nice in the sense that the Wii remote motion sensor doesn't feel tacked on. It's fluid gameplay, if you actually put the time into playing it.

 

[BGH122]

To be honest, playing the Australian version of Left4Dead2 is like having sex without the orgasm: Sure it's technically the same activity but the entire reason it was fun has been removed.

That quote, with your avatar, just made my week.

Thank you, I'm not usually witty so that glib jest came as a surprise to me. It may take me some time to recover from the excitement.

 

[funguy2121]

*snip*

The improvements are not in any way minor. New Super Mario Brothers is an upgrade in the way that Super Mario World was an upgrade. If I were wrong and you were right, it wouldn't be the top selling game well into next year, which it will. People are hungry for more classic 2D Mario. If it's not your thing then guess what? You do not have to play it.

Actually, I haven't played a Mario game ever since the SNES.
Maybe it's the fact that Super Mario Galaxy 2 seems like a bland title for some grand sequel, considering what they made up in the past. Then again, how original was Super Mario Bros. 3 in it's titling?
Maybe it just seems so because they churn out Mario/Zelda/Metroid games a bit too often, and the repertoire gets a bit thin.
I'm not saying don't put out new-old games, I'm saying invent something new that has that ancient Nintendo spark .

Welcome back to the fray. Considering your last statement, I'm in awe of the irony. You do know that it's been since the SNES release ('92? 'Cos that'd be 17 years) that we've had a 2D Mario platformer. I'd agree that Microsoft, Square, EA (oh god EA), Bungie and Nintendo do too much retreading. But, as I've already stated, this is a return to form the likes of which we haven't seen in 17 years. That's nearly old enough to legally have sex with. And it's not for everybody, but it's certainly a new experience. I don't expect Galaxy 2 to be the revelation Galaxy was, but it'll certainly be fun. Galaxy was wonderful. If you do some research, you'll find that the director of the new Zelda is very much occupied with the notion of subverting Zelda's form.

 

[Retardinator]

Welcome back to the fray. Considering your last statement, I'm in awe of the irony. You do know that it's been since the SNES release ('92? 'Cos that'd be 17 years) that we've had a 2D Mario platformer. I'd agree that Microsoft, Square, EA (oh god EA), Bungie and Nintendo do too much retreading. But, as I've already stated, this is a return to form the likes of which we haven't seen in 17 years. That's nearly old enough to legally have sex with. And it's not for everybody, but it's certainly a new experience. I don't expect Galaxy 2 to be the revelation Galaxy was, but it'll certainly be fun. Galaxy was wonderful. If you do some research, you'll find that the director of the new Zelda is very much occupied with the notion of subverting Zelda's form.

Ever since then, I pretty much stuck with the PS. Gamecube was out of my price range (Yo-ho-ho and a burnt disc!) and now that the Wii is out, I'm not into consoles anymore. Tinkering with Microsoft's feces(=Operating Systems) feels more challenging and comes across as a more lasting solution for next-gen titles, rather than buying a new console every thursday.
That put aside, I did play a bit of Mario 64 on an emulator.
It's been nearly 30 years since Mario was invented. 23 for Zelda and Metroid.
Makes you think how long they'll keep going...
There's still gotta be some innovation when they successfully pull it off for that long. It's just that there's constant effort being put into the same 3 franchises.
Imagine this in some other industry - there'd be some new and great movies out there, something constantly fresh, but it would still be black and white and have piano music in the background. Or if Charlie Chaplin was alive today, wouldn't you get sick of watching him all the time?

 

[funguy2121]

Welcome back to the fray. Considering your last statement, I'm in awe of the irony. You do know that it's been since the SNES release ('92? 'Cos that'd be 17 years) that we've had a 2D Mario platformer. I'd agree that Microsoft, Square, EA (oh god EA), Bungie and Nintendo do too much retreading. But, as I've already stated, this is a return to form the likes of which we haven't seen in 17 years. That's nearly old enough to legally have sex with. And it's not for everybody, but it's certainly a new experience. I don't expect Galaxy 2 to be the revelation Galaxy was, but it'll certainly be fun. Galaxy was wonderful. If you do some research, you'll find that the director of the new Zelda is very much occupied with the notion of subverting Zelda's form.

Ever since then, I pretty much stuck with the PS. Gamecube was out of my price range (Yo-ho-ho and a burnt disc!) and now that the Wii is out, I'm not into consoles anymore. Tinkering with Microsoft's feces(=Operating Systems) feels more challenging and comes across as a more lasting solution for next-gen titles, rather than buying a new console every thursday.
That put aside, I did play a bit of Mario 64 on an emulator.
It's been nearly 30 years since Mario was invented. 23 for Zelda and Metroid.
Makes you think how long they'll keep going...
There's still gotta be some innovation when they successfully pull it off for that long. It's just that there's constant effort being put into the same 3 franchises.
Imagine this in some other industry - there'd be some new and great movies out there, something constantly fresh, but it would still be black and white and have piano music in the background. Or if Charlie Chaplin was alive today, wouldn't you get sick of watching him all the time?

People keep making this argument. Of course if Charlie Chaplin were still making movies they still wouldn't be black and white. That's why Mario 64 gave birth to 3D, why Galaxies has gameplay based upon gravitational fields. The retread thing IS done in every sector of art and entertainment (remake or reboot, anyone?). In some cases, I'm in favor of it (if the sheen has come off the franchise and the proper person is at the Helm, as in The Dark Knight and the upcoming Sherlock Holmes) but overwhelmingly, I'm against it (A Very Brady ANYTHING, The Beverly Capitalists).

There are other franchises that they've continued to support, although in some cases less so in recent years, to the response of many a raised eyebrow. . . Mario Kart, Star Fox, F-Zero, Pikmin. The two major problems I have with Nintendo this generation are 1) an overall lack of fresh ideas coming from their own court and 2) the worst 3rd party support I've seen since Virtual Boy. I can't think of a good 3rd party game outside of No More Heroes, Battalion Wars 2 and a small handful of FPS's (none of which has local support, fuck you very much). I'm not saying it's perfect, but it actually suits me just fine as I have a rather busy schedule. They do need to bring back local support though, the bastards.

 

[Ohlookit'sMatty]

And story is pretty much unnecessary in a videogame. We don't need strong characters and plot to engage us in a game: all that's truly required is good gameplay and strong level design, which Mario games have in spades.

Well good level design and gameplay might be good enough for you but for me I dont watch, read or play anything that does have a good story to it otherwise I, personally, wont enjoy it as much // But even saying that I have still have watched films that where nothing but pure CGI

Because they are all out of ideas for new games // I agree with Yahtzee, even a bad game that tries new things is a step in the right direction...Make old games look prettier with a few extra things to play with has no place in todays market

They are making a Batman: Arkham Asylum 2, which even if they dont change a single thing within the whole game will still be the best game of 2010(or when ever it comes out) and that my friends is the sign of a really good game

You seem to be contradicting yourself here.

Im contradicting myself when it comes to Arkham 2 purely because I feel that the first game had no flaws when it came to game play, story or design (apart from the easy ass end boss fight)

-M

 

[runtheplacered]

Im contradicting myself when it comes to Arkham 2 purely because I feel that the first game had no flaws when it came to game play, story or design (apart from the easy ass end boss fight)

-M

I'm just not sure that admitting to contradicting yourself excuses what you said. You said they have no place in todays market, but suddenly a game you happen to like has a sequel and then it DOES have a place in todays market. Is it a coincidence that it's a game you like AND it'll do well in todays market? Probably not. You're probably just valuing your own opinion a tad too much.

Anyway, it's a moot point. New Mario Wii sold like fucking hotcakes, so obviously it does in fact have a place in "todays market".

 

[Daniel Pharos]

I really enjoyed the passion in this one.

 

[StormShaun]

If Australia gets an R rated the world of gaming will be peacefull once again then we wont have to ban, unban, ban then change then realese it into a world of people who were looking forward to it then got dissapointed by it and returned a could of been a great game.....when can those old men chnage there minds and some people are trying to fight this and make a R rated classification....oh well but still a really great review.....

To fight against this old men people go to: www.gamers4croydon.com

 

[SAccharing10]

It's true though, Modern Bawfare 2 is pretty much the same as the original Modern Warfare besides better graphics, new weapons, slight gameplay alterations, which is the exact same as L4D compared to L4D2 yet nobody has even mentioned that. I think Valve are seen as industry leaders; everything they touch turns to gold, probably why people have such a problem with the step they've taken into becoming just another generic gaming company, should be expecting L4D3 - Hunters' revenge on Easter.

 

[Mason X]

I wouldn't buy either games but if someone would be nice of send me a free copy of l4d2 that would be nice. Because the first game was fun but that enjoyment only lasted about a week and a half.

SAAAAAAMMME for me it got so boring and i loved it for a night then it got tiresome as the week went on.... I traded in the first game within a week and brought back my Cod 4
I have played the new game but i think it is soo boring once you have had a go with all the new weapons.

May i suggest that if you are looking for a great zombie game try 'Killing Floor' its simple and fun, although its only on Pc at the moment. I would love it to be released on console!