Zero Punctuation: Left 4 Dead 2 & New Super Mario Bros Wii

[iDayman]

If I like RPGs, and you like beating Kevin Smith off, then of course I'll prefer a Square Enix title to pleasuring a shark-jumping filmmaker, whereas you'll be offering him fellatio and now it will be legal since you're finally an adult.

I really cannot stop laughing at this.


I slightly disagree about the whole ps1 argument...I think its less of a graphical thing and more the fact that nazty is making an argument that involves a logical fallacy.
You cant assume that a game released NOW for a console from FIFTEEN years ago, for the very simple reason that 1. The bloody console isnt for sale any more, and 2. No-one held on to the thing anyways!

That would be like arguing that half life two was the worst game ever made because it didn't sell any copies if it was released in 2004 for apple II!

That being said, I do think that if final fantasy had never been released, or any of the subsequent sequels, it would still do pretty well in todays market, IF people bought games for the gameplay, rather than OOH PRETTY PRETTY, which they don't.

 

[iDayman]

1)Films are different as it is a completely different medium to games.
2)Images and BS? Go troll somewhere else please, or grow up, and present an argument which doesn't consist of personal attacks and avoiding what I've asked you - Why are PS1 games mostly crap when they established a lot of genres? Why is a 2D Mario such a great idea when I'd say the game does nothing new, and does not represent a next gen game, nor 15 years worth of development, but instead just nostalgia and people loving it because they want to, rather than on its merits.

WOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSHHHHHHH!

...Did you hear that? You've probably been hearing that alot these last couple pages.

Go back and reread everything that has been said, slowly, not taking immediate offense to every little thing that seems to disagree with you before rushing to the bottom of the page and angrily typing "Personal attacks and blah blah troll, ignore what people are saying while blathering on with contradictory arguments", think about whats been said, figure out what your REALLY trying to argue, and come back.

Maybe then we can have a *big kid* discussion.

 

[Ienjoygames]

Whatever Mazty, if you don't like old games, well fine. That's you. I don't have time to argue around here anymore.
Super Mario Land is 2D eyecandy for me, same as for other people. You might think it looks like crap, I don't.

Megaman 9 was a huge success, and Megman 10 will be released in a few month. It seems like people still enjoy good "old" games after all.

I enjoy a good challenge without being hindered by archaic controls and shoddy graphics. Plus, great response....."Whatevar, I still likez them", not that you totally avoided answering my question...

I've already answered your questions a several times, and it seems like you still don't get it. And I still don't get why you got such a hard time on old games. What's your problem? If you're having problem with "archaic" controls, well then you're just playing the wrong games. Your loss. Oh, and if you want great controls then you should really try out the Megaman series, with great control and lovely 8-bit graphics. As I said before, people still want more of those games, I'm sure Megaman 10 will be a huge success.

Oh and yes, I "likez" them very much. After all, they're good games, even if they're old.

See, you are ignoring the idea that as games and the industry develops, so should people's expectation. If this wasn't true, then every game should be getting 10/10, as MW2 is better than Doom etc.

No I don't ignore it, I enjoy it as much as everyone else does. But still, that doesn't mean you give the middlefinger to old games.

 

[iDayman]

Ah though as you say, it'd be a new challenge which is very true. SMB wii with similar levels to the SNES version I don't find challenging, hence why I think its a pointless game, and why I find it hard to understand how people can enjoy a game with no challenge.

Its not challenging because the point of the game, oddly enough, is NOT to fling yourself off the edges and come floating back down out of the sky in a bubble, no matter how counter-intuitive that may seem.

But really, the real reason its not challenging, is because you're not challenging yourself. Up the difficulty, play with some friends (if you dont find that challanging and wish you had a real nunchuk to hit your friends over the head with, refer to my previous paragraph.)

That being said...I cant take games that take themselves seriously on the wii seriously. The only game i'll play on the wii is MCR or SBB, and even then only while intoxicated in a social setting.

 

[funguy2121]

snip

I'm saying this with a tentative expectation that you'll understand that, as I am using numbers here, I am responding to what you said with the corresponding number. 'Kay. Fingers crossed...

1)I used films because that's what you used as an example, when you stated that old films are inherently inferior. You also hinted that tech is more important to a film than acting. No I won't quote it. If you can type, I'm fairly certain you can read. If films are not a worthy parallel for this argument, then why did you draw exactly that parallel? I humbly submit that in literature, in painting, in movies and television (see above exception), in music and in video games, the age of the work of art has absolutely nothing to do with its value. If a game were made for a certain system that couldn't quite handle it, or the designers rushed the game and it turned out super buggy (see Tomb Raider, again, above), then that would be an exception. Your notion that things lose their value with age and cease to be "good" shows your immaturity and lack of relatability to the overwhelming majority of the world. Y'know, us preppies who have no taste.
2)You once again seem to have forgotten the words that just left your mouth, mr. argument-switcher. Those weren't images and BS, they were the pretty colors and juvenile sound effects that you imagine entertain idiots like myself and all the other people you've insulted on this thread. That is what cavemen such as myself refer to as "humor." And I will not continue debating who is the troll here, Mr. Herman. I'm only debating one person at present and I'm having fun whenever he goes into a curse-filled tirade or attacks people as juvenile or stupid when they dare to disagree with his vast 21 years of wisdom.

) Why is a 2D mario such a great idea when YOU SAY it does nothing new? Like I said more than 24 hours ago, read up to previous responses to YOUR POSTS, I've already forgotten some of the names I've given you, and I've already answered this question.
) I also won't argue the reason why people are playing the game, which again I feel is another one of your childish games. You've been answered, Mr. Herman. You can troll at everyone, then say things like "you screamed troll!" but the answer won't change. No matter how many times you insult people and then accuse them of personal attacks, they will not tell you another reason they like a game that you do not understand. And look, I get it. You're over the whole Mario thing and you don't get people who aren't. I don't get bisexuality, but I don't go around telling bisexuals they're idiots or juvenile or demand they tell me why they like it. Perhaps you should not either.

Go ahead, little spin-meister, do your thing. Spin away...

 

[DyNo541]

He's back! That was a great review and I look forward to many more.

"The Girl" should have been Erykah Badu.

 

[Bilbo536]

snip.

I think it can simply be summed up by if a PS1 game was never released, say GT2, Driver, MGS1, and were a week from now, no one would buy them, or the sales would be significantly lower than they were from being released back during the peak of the PS1. Why is that?
As for old cars, its for nostalgia, or the looks of the car. It won't be for performance or how the car handles.

I figured I'd throw in a little spiel here too. They did in fact release games in such a manner, such as Ocarina of Time: Master Quest for the Gamecube. Even though the controls and graphics remained the same, the dungeons were remastered to present new and difficult challenges, which compelled myself, and many others I'm sure, to give this new challenge a try. Were they to release Majora's Mask: Master Quest tomorrow, it'd be on my christmas list in a heartbeat.

Ah though as you say, it'd be a new challenge which is very true. SMB wii with similar levels to the SNES version I don't find challenging, hence why I think its a pointless game, and why I find it hard to understand how people can enjoy a game with no challenge.

But it does present challenge. It is actually a very very hard game, by the standards of not only classic NES Mario Games, but of most modern games. It sounds to me as though you have not yet played New Super Mario Bros, yet are attempting to sound as though you can give an credible critique of the game.

 

[Ramset]

Mazty, are you for real? You're a troll, right?

 

[Arehexes]

Ok let me ask you this for the guys who believe valve is ripping you off with selling you a "expansion pack". Do you guys buy ANY sequel to any series of games, if so then do NOT complain about valve. EA and Activision and Nintendo all do this, but NO ONE I repeat NO ONE complain about this as much as Valve for making Left4Dead 2. EA release sports games every year that COULD have dlc updates for stat rosters, and they are starting to rival Activision in the rhythm games that have starting flooding the market (Band Hero, Lego Rock Band really?) all those songs dlc unless they did a redoing of the engine it uses. To people who owned MW and then bought MW2 or owned Assassins Creed only to buy it's squeal, are getting as ripped off as valve. You people sicken me, omg valve is doing what every company has been doing but since two people made a group about it and I am a sheep I think they are evil also. Also you shouldn't listen to Yahtzee for real game reviews(or any reviewer), he is funny but he stresses things wrong with the game WWAAYYY to much. You fans are just sheep's who listen for what he says is good or bad. Stop listening to these reviewers as fact, their thought on the game in question is THEIR thought not yours. No one can decided that a game is good or bad but yourself. I missed out on a lot of great games I liked because reviewers who claim it's not a good game. They just pass what they thought about the game to you, but you have to make the ultimate choice(I like to compare my thoughts with other reviewers).

Edit:Also I think a lot of the valve hate is from the fact they haven't made Half Life 2:EP3.

 

[Sliverlord]

I can't agree any more. L4D2 is just an L4D expansion, nothing more. Its just a a bunch of new maps, a few useless melee weapons and thats it. And about New Super Mario Bross Wii, well, its a ripoff from New Super Mario bross DS wich is a ripoff from Super Mario 3, so its not a big surprise that it dont have anything new(as the title says, btw)

Yes. Just more plot, new characters, new settings, new gameplay mechanics, new game modes, new weapon types, new weapons, new infected, new infected behaviour, new gore system, new uncommon infected, new weather effects, new use of variations in pathing, updated graphics, updated older game mechanics, a few different atmospheres for the various campaigns, wait... they arn't that similar after all.

Yeah, I was unimpressed with the demo, yeah I see that the CORE CORE CORE gameplay is the same. But what more do you want? Don't 99.9% of all sequals share the same gameplay mechanics?
Why not ask for Halo 2 and 3 to be an expansion to Halo 1? After all all it is is new graphics, enemies, plot, maps, weapons and characters?
Left 4 Dead 2 has so many new additions that it would not work as DLC since anyone who didn't have it would be pretty much unable to play with people who do.

1. there is no such thing as new charecters as they are simply skins.
2. weapons are all basically the same, what is the point with the silencer anyways?
3. settings are very basic. dur, they have to have new areas.
4. the weather effects are minimal, and only used in one portion of a level.
5. new infected are the only intruiging thing, but as they ARE the only unique thing then it boils down to...an expansion
6. there are no new mechanics, the undead still haul ass righttowards nice meaty people and try to nom on them

 

[Ienjoygames]

Whatever Mazty, if you don't like old games, well fine. That's you. I don't have time to argue around here anymore.
Super Mario Land is 2D eyecandy for me, same as for other people. You might think it looks like crap, I don't.

Megaman 9 was a huge success, and Megman 10 will be released in a few month. It seems like people still enjoy good "old" games after all.

I enjoy a good challenge without being hindered by archaic controls and shoddy graphics. Plus, great response....."Whatevar, I still likez them", not that you totally avoided answering my question...

I've already answered your questions a several times, and it seems like you still don't get it. And I still don't get why you got such a hard time on old games. What's your problem? If you're having problem with "archaic" controls, well then you're just playing the wrong games. Your loss. Oh, and if you want great controls then you should really try out the Megaman series, with great control and lovely 8-bit graphics. As I said before, people still want more of those games, I'm sure Megaman 10 will be a huge success.

Oh and yes, I "likez" them very much. After all, they're good games, even if they're old.

See, you are ignoring the idea that as games and the industry develops, so should people's expectation. If this wasn't true, then every game should be getting 10/10, as MW2 is better than Doom etc.

No I don't ignore it, I enjoy it as much as everyone else does. But still, that doesn't mean you give the middlefinger to old games.

Because? If old games are "Just as good now as they were then", then how come new games, even the sh*t ones, aren't all getting 10/10? Explain that one please.

Probably because they're not living up to todays expectations. As with more and new technology, (Developers) you have much more responsibility to use it right.

And as I said before, just because we got better technology today, doesn't mean good old games automatically turn into bad games.

I enjoy a good challenge without being hindered by archaic controls and shoddy graphics. Plus, great response....."Whatevar, I still likez them", not that you totally avoided answering my question...

I've already answered your questions a several times, and it seems like you still don't get it. And I still don't get why you got such a hard time on old games. What's your problem? If you're having problem with "archaic" controls, well then you're just playing the wrong games. Your loss. Oh, and if you want great controls then you should really try out the Megaman series, with great control and lovely 8-bit graphics. As I said before, people still want more of those games, I'm sure Megaman 10 will be a huge success.

It seems you don't give a fuck anyways.
What's the word for people like you? Narrow-minded person? Smallminded? Fanatic? ...

 

[funguy2121]

1)No I did not imply tech is important in films. Keep with what I've been saying about games & films separate, and don't try to digress. Yes I made a loose comparison, but essentially it was pretty stupid as games & films are a vastly different medium.
2)Curse filed tirade? Whatever, but I'm pretty sure if you look at your posts, they digress and avoid answering questions directly so badly, it's either the mark of a troll, or you're just having probs saying why a 2D Mario is so good in this day and age when you can just simply play the SNES version.
3)Why haven't you, yes, you yourself answered the question? Why do you leave it for other people to do, when I'd say none have done it well because they come out with half hearted excuses such as "Old is good", which defeats the point of the industy, or "It's a bridging game" which is just a bizarre concept etc.
4)Mr. Herman, Mazzzzztiuiieee etc. What do you expect to get by resorting to literal name calling? It's just juvenile, and that you can't deny.
5)If you can't explain why you like something such as a game, then you aren't trying hard enough. I can explain why I like or dislike every game I have played, so why is it so hard in this instance, unless there is of course that doubt in the back of your mind telling you you may not be enjoying it as much as you tell yourself you are...Just a thought.

1)Yes you diddy-did-did. As you just got through telling another person here, you don't want to re-read, you're tired of everybody telling you to read the crazy shit your saying and read our responses, because YOUR QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED. I won't quote you, Mr. Switcheroo, because there's a blue bar down there that says 12, 13, 14, 15 and you can simply tag one of those numbers to see where he-said-she-said... and once again, my argument is stupid because I compared games to "film" which was a continuation of a thought YOU started. Odd. You sir, must have extremely short term amnesia. "Vastly different medium?" Really? Do you think that would stand up in court? Care to elaborate, or do you just want to continue couching a flimsy argument in words that, once again, are being misused and aren't nearly as impressive as you imagine. Grow up Mazty, you're 21 now. If you can drink, you can talk like a big boy.
2)Case in point...digress. Please stop using this word 50 times in every post. It does not make you sound smart, it sounds like an 11-year-old trying to sound smart to his parents. I'm being sincere here. I'm trying to help you. The question you obliquely posed to me there, the same question that you claimed has been 30 questions, is how can X be good now even though it was good then. I have certainly answered this question. You will deny it as readily as you will deny every thing you've said on here. How does age affect quality? C'mon Mr. Integrity, I'm asking YOU a question. Give me a reasoned explanation for how an old movie or game is inherently inferior to a new movie or game, and don't try to spin your way out of the comparison, because that's what you said about both (vastly different) mediums.
3) When misquoting someone, it's important to remember not to get their (mis)quotes confused with someone else's. See above.
4)You continue to say, "I know you are but what am I." When I feel less lazy, I'll source Pee-Wee's Playhouse to you. I'll explain the rise and fall of Paul Reubens, celebrity and dirty pervert. Of course, then I'll still have to explain why it's relevant, and you'll just argue like you have a leg to stand on. Sigh...
5)So...if you dislike every game you have played, as you just stated...then what are you doing on the escapist?

But seriously though, my grammatically challenged friend, if I DO like something, then why do I need to defend it? If I can't stand something and run around telling everybody it sucks and they're a mentally retarded nazi pedophile if they like it, then it is incumbent upon ME to explain why it has no merit.

Wow, this is useless. He's not gonna read it anyway. He's just gonna pick a few words out, twist them, and tell me I'm stupid because he read a movie review in Entertainment Weekly that his mother left on the toilet...

Sigh. I surrender, M. You win. I can't talk to you.