Zero Punctuation: MadWorld

[Kage Me]

Though I do not own a Wii I have (as a moderate gamer) logged well over 100 hours in Fallout 3. I doubt any Wii game can do the same AND have a solid foundation of similar titles to offer.

I've probably had more than 100 hours of Brawl. It was 77 hours when I last checked, and that was well over two months ago...

Funny that the one Wii game you claim to have played alot (only one I can make that claim on too) is also one that any responsible player only plays using a gamecube controller.

Actually, I use the Wiichuck... And it works just as well.

I've probably played Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 for a good amount of hours, too. Probably not 100, but still. And in those games, the Wii controls are actually used well.

 

[fatpie42]

You have to admit he's right, having a ultra-violent game on the WII is like trying to show Ultimate Fighting on Nick for Kids, it's just not going to fly.

It seemed to work for No More Heroes and Resident Evil 4...Maybe not as violent as MW but still major earners of their M ratings.

As well as "House of the Dead: Overkill" and "Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles" (which Yahtzee actually LIKED might I remind you?)

Seriously, the Wii simply has a range of games. Admittedly a large proportion of those games don't even get reviewed on mainstream websites for the simple reason that they are clearly franchise cash-ins with no merit, but the idea that the Wii only targets children is just nonsense. (Heck, far from leaving their hardcore following who have been with them since the early 90s for a younger generation, Nintendo seem to be instead targeting middle-aged businessmen who can't find the time to get to the gym... And what businessman doesn't secretly hold the desire to rip people to pieces with their bare hands, eh?)

As for the criticism of the Wii controls, that is a very personal judgement. There were huge worries about the effectiveness of the controls when the Wii was first released and they haven't proven to be much of a concern. If the controls were as bad as Yahtzee makes out, I can't begin to imagine how he reached the end of the game. Maybe it's a problem with the way his Wii is set up?

 

[Kage Me]

...I kinda wonder if Yahtzee would enjoy the "casual" Wii games. I'd love to see a review of World of Goo myself, if only to prove the potential of Wiiware.

 

[ElTigreNegro]

Blah blah blah. Developers of all types SHOULD continue to develop for the Wii, and not just shovel ware, and youngster games. The Wii is the best selling video game console month after month. It has sold the most and thus has more potential in sales than any other system. It is not made up mostly of casual gamers, but rather an extremely diverse set of users. The problem is NOT that the users are mostly these so called causal gamers. It is that there IS NO ONE MAJORITY on the Wii. Unlike the xbox360, which you may as well call the FPS Depot. It's easy to know what will sell on the 360, and face it the games being offered on there are really just clones of each other. Yahtzee rips those games apart FAR more than anything Nintendo.

While we don't have a demographic graphic chart at hand, it's safe to say that the majority of the users of the wii are people that have never played videogames, not in a regular basis at least. The sales speak for themselves, see the numbers for something like No More Heroes, which haven't sold bad either, but put it along with something like "Carnival Games" and well, if that doesn't tell you something about the Wii's market nothing will.

PS3? It's inconsequential. If it is a model for what a good video game system should be then vacuum is a model for the best atmosphere needed to support life on earth. It's been out for a few years now, and it's still struggling to not slit it's own wrists. Why? Because the fucking 'hardcore' 'mature' gamers it's almost exclusively catering to will barely touch the damn thing!

The PS3 has been a dissapointment in several ways, but it's still selling, it still has a good share of the market, and it actually surpassed the wii some weeks ago in Japan. So, it's hardly dead already.

Nintendo going out like sega? Um, huh? They should stop making video game consoles...because they are making more money then any other video game system? Because they are expanding the market by leaps and bounds? I'm sorry that it is so hard accept that Nintendo, that 'once great company that screwed up with the N64, and almost crashed and burned with the NGC' is the leader in hardware, software, and peripheral sales.

Good sales and popularity doesn't equal good quality.

'Hardcore gamers', which I would consider myself one, our time as the main focus of the video game market is OVER. Deal with it. The market doesn't need us anymore. Oh it wants us, it wants our money, but it doesn't NEED us anymore. The video game industry is changing, in fact it never stopped. Remember when it was only okay for young kids to play video games? Well those kids grew up, then it was okay for older ones so they made more complex games. Then the kids became Teens and those games evolved in complexity and maturity. Those teens became young adults. Then middle aged people. Remember its been nearly 30 years since NES!

The days of games about slashing enemies or shooting at them are obviously not over, otherwise we wouldn't have a God of War 3, Bayonetta and other titles coming up. You might want to change "the market doesn't need us" to "Nintendo doesn't need us" because they clearly got a new audience for them. Bottom line: both factions can co-exist, people who are new to the medium and people who have been playing for a while. There is no need to replace one with another, Nintendo did prefer to choose one over another with the Wii, that's good for them, but that doesn't mean others have to follow the same path.

Those kids are now well into their thirty's, some are hitting their forties. They want to play video games still, it's what they did as a kid. They want complexity, they want something that is truly mature. Not, it has guns so it's mature. Or it has blood so it's mature. Or it's brown so it's mature. Because that isn't mature at all, it's juvenile. They want something complex so it's mature. They want something that requires their brain over their reflexes so it's mature. They also don't have time to sit down for 4-6 hours to play video games. They need simple games, games they can pick up on their lunch break, and put down before the meeting. Because they have jobs now! They are running corporations, and small business, and the government. Nintendo wanted those kids that grew up Nintendo back, most brilliant business move they EVER made. You don't like Wii? Thats fine, you don't have to. But your opinion does not change what is happening. The 'hardcore' market is shrinking. You think it's bad now, wait until the next batch of consoles come out. Sony and MS would be lunatics if they didn't start catering to the massive market that Nintendo has created. Fully expect at least Sony to do a full turn around of and copy, almost to the letter, exactly Nintendo's current business model.

Exactly what is complex about games like Wii fit, wii sports or wii play? I frankly fail to see the complexity of said titles.

With all that said, I don't like this game. I DO want a rather violent brawler game. But I'd like a few less gallons of blood and not quite so many constant screams of agony. I personally think that, perhaps, Sega went just a little too over the top.

That's the idea of this game, being over the top in a very absurd way. It's violence taked with a dose of black humour. Not in a crudea realistic way.

Yahtzee. I love ya man, but back off Nintendo a little bit, eh? You are a VIDEO GAME REVIEWER. You have reviewed the Wii's -hardware- enough times already. Is it still necessary to start Wii reviews with instant Wii hardware hate rants? Is that really what people are tuning in for? Surely the game itself has enough flaws for you to rant about? It really is trite now. I'm a huge fan of your shows to you know. Wii hardware hate isn't funny anymore. It just wastes time to tell everyone the same thing. I wanted to hear about Mad World, Yahtzee, not the goddamn Wii your playing it on. It's just a little bit silly now. Heck, its even somewhat disturbing. It's like you sit in a dark closet blabbering to yourself about how it killed everyone in your family, what with it's waggles and all, and now you want revenge on it the only way you know how.

It's Yahtzee's show, he can review and rant about whatever he wants. If he still has something to say about the Wii i don't see why he should contain himfself. He's not reviewing a wii game every week.

 

[Pimppeter2]

Good game, better review

 

[SoonerMatt]

And here I thought I was the only one not hyped about this game. The art concept seemed cool, but I can't say I'm surprised the game started getting dull after a while.

 

[RTR]

If Yahtzee hates the Wii so much, why can't he stay the fuck away?!

 

[SoonerMatt]

My guess is that the Wii keeps getting big-name and highly marketed titles, so he's slightly obligated to review them, either by The Escapist or something else. Or, as was the case with Brawl, he kept getting floods of emails asking him to review a game that he felt the need to, even if it was just to stop the constant stream of emails.

 

[robinkom]

another brutal ripping of the wii, well done, it deserves all the shit it gets

Heard that. I wish they would make all games available for Gamecube controllers also, or at least something else than the Wii Remote. I'd even go with a N64 controller, despite it's unpractical, uncool, stupid shape (although I guess they needed a way to fit all the buttons there)

I half-agree and half-disagree with both of your comments. While I don't believe all of the ripping up for the Wii just for the sake of it is a good thing (because fanboys get off on it), I do feel that just enough of it should be done to get a certain Mario Factory's attention. There's room for mature titles on the system, it's just none of the ones on the slate are striking that magical note with the system controls.

House of the Dead did just right enough being a rail shooter; not having to fumble with any of the motion control is a good thing in that case. The game likes a lot of replay value, however. Madworld sounded fantastic on paper and does execute reasonably well; it just falls victim to the repetitiveness plague and it's limbs are falling off. If a sequel is in the pipeline, it would probably be best to wait until the Motion Plus adapter is out then the controls will be fixed and a thousand times more responsive.

I also agree with the need for compatibility with the GCN controller or Classic Controller, not just with this game, but many of them. From Nintendo's point of view, it would defeat the purpose of their Wii Remote gimmick, but the Wii itself is really just a slightly more powerful Gamecube anyway. In that fact, controller compatibility isn't hard to do on their part, it's just hard to decide to do.

I'd almost want to use an N64 controller too if I was still wasn't convinced that it's 3-handled design wasn't for the purpose of accommodating mankind's eventual evolution involving the growth of a third hand. I always figured it was Nintendo's way of saying "this is the last console you will ever need."

 

[robinkom]

Blah blah blah.

That's a pretty hefty first post, friend, and I did enjoy reading it. Just quoted the "blah" part because it seemed funny on it's own, plus your post was very long and mine is about to be as long too. Let me verify now that I'm not trying to insult you at all if anything I say comes off as such. I'm just trying to be objective and contribute.

While I agree with some things you say, other things need to be put in a little more perspective. ElTigreNegro already made some good points on your rant so I'll try not to repeat anything he said.

Firstly, I want to introduce the notion that terms like "casual" and "hardcore" are actually quite irrelevant. At one time, I would have considered myself a "hardcore" gamer, having been on the scene since the Atari 2600 and Colecovision, but we didn't even have that kind of terminology back then. They really didn't even mean anything until this console generation. Simply put, we as a whole, are gamers and consumers. What someone chooses to play, be it a simple little puzzle game or an epic RPG, is simply their preference. Given time, almost every gamer will sooner or later experiment with much more complex and deeper games of other genres. Because of this, there is no reason to corner them into a single niche of the audience.

Secondly, what most gamers tend to forget is that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo... are companies. They are in it to make money. They don't seek your loyalty or your ability to defend and die for their cause, just your money. Clever/asinine marketing is what ends up getting fanboys' feathers ruffled.

Yes, it's true Nintendo did lose momentum with the N64 and were very close to going under at one time during the run of the Gamecube; When they drained the coffers they had so gleefully filled to the brim with NES and SNES sales over all those years, the Gamecube was about to put the final nail in their coffin. And when you're on the ropes, you tend to make uncommon business decisions. Essentially, they asked themselves, "how can we maximize profits?" The untapped non-gamer market was the answer.

Through careful wording, they were able to separate themselves from Microsoft and Sony by saying they're marketing to their own audience with a "new-gen" console and not a "next-gen" one; the Wii being a slightly more powerful Gamecube at it's core and all. My thought was always that the still wanted to get some mileage out of the hardware coupled with the fact that they couldn't afford to make an equal-in-power console to the other Big Two. They had created such a functional and appealing gimmick in the Wii motion sensor technology that it would appeal to anyone at all with the proper marketing. And that is what we got; A slightly more powerful "new-gen" system with controls so intuitive that anyone in the family can join in. From there, the rest is history.

On the PS3, I don't own one and probably won't for a while, but based on everything that was sunk into it, you can bet it will be around a lot longer than expected. When the next Xbox and Nintendo consoles come out, look for the PS3 to still be there. It's hardware capabilities are still largely untapped and could keep it afloat well into the next generation. (NOTE: I don't want one yet because the only game I want on it is MGS4. There's not enough exclusives for it yet for me to warrant all that money up front.)

As for Yahtzee's Wii hatred, it's just his way. When he criticized Smash Bros. Brawl, I laughed hard. It was funny. I love that game but I'm not going to defend it because a "professional troll" rips it a new asshole. (I love that term!) When he goes off about the Wii, I do sense the undertone that he may wish that something may one day make the Wii sing and dance like a master. Perhaps when the Motion Plus adapter ships he may change his tune about a future game that supports it. Take it for what it's worth. If anything he may even do it just to get reactions like yours from his viewers.

Also, keep in mind that he is a Game CRITIC, not a reviewer. He doesn't have to be informative or give a numerical score (not that he ever has), his intent is to just be funny and possibly blow off some steam about how frustrating a particular part of a game is. Plus, he's getting paid to do it.

 

[robinkom]

Funny that the one Wii game you claim to have played alot (only one I can make that claim on too) is also one that any responsible player only plays using a gamecube controller.

I play it with the Wiimote and nunchuck and my friends (who played melee way more than I did) use the Gamecube controllers and I destroy them.

Not going to lie, I need to use a Gamecube controller too in Brawl too. I actually didn't even bother to learn it with the Wii Remote, as I wanted to get directly into the action with little to no hassle. When my friends and I have a Brawl night, the Wii Remote usually falls to the last player if he forgot his GC controller and no one brought extras.

 

[Sir_Muffonious]

If a sequel is in the pipeline, it would probably be best to wait until the Motion Plus adapter is out then the controls will be fixed and a thousand times more responsive.

While it's a good oppurtunity to improve on the gameplay and add more ways to kill enemies, I don't really want MadWorld to have a sequel, because the second a game has a sequel it loses all of its originality and what makes it unique. Plus, everything is wrapped up very nicely at the end of MadWorld, and if there's one thing I hate, it's needless sequels.

 

[robinkom]

If a sequel is in the pipeline, it would probably be best to wait until the Motion Plus adapter is out then the controls will be fixed and a thousand times more responsive.

While it's a good oppurtunity to improve on the gameplay and add more ways to kill enemies, I don't really want MadWorld to have a sequel, because the second a game has a sequel it loses all of its originality and what makes it unique. Plus, everything is wrapped up very nicely at the end of MadWorld, and if there's one thing I hate, it's needless sequels.

I hear you loud and clear. Needless sequels do tend to ruin the credibility of the original installment. As far as games go, I can't really think of any in this respect, just movies. And I'm thinking of Robocop 2 & 3 and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II & III in that respect. Prime examples of bleeding a cash cow dry. They also seem to be the result of taking 2 really great dark movies and making them more family friendly for the sake of maximizing profits.

Anyways, I wouldn't entirely denounce a new Madworld installment as long as it has no ties to the first one. Kind of like Final Fantasy style where there's no direct sequels (except X and X-2). Madworld is definitely reminiscent of the old Midway game, Smash TV in concept. Doing one in that vain of a game show might be interesting.

 

[G1eet]

Why isn't this showing up for me? Tried on Firefox, tried on Chrome, doesn't work at all.

Chrome's been temperamental with me as well.

 

[itsmeyouidiot]

Quit fucking bashing the Wii and do your job. Bash the game, not the console.

Oh, and as a rule, Yahtzee, I think you should only review games that are considered genuinely horrible by everyone. That way, I won't feel like throwing rocks/eggs/coconuts at the Escapist headquarters.

I really don't see why people hate this game so much. The gameplay is actually quite good, the controls work well, and the art style and sense of humour are great.

Oh, and as for you sheep that agree with every review Yahtzee ever puts out, I have one question:

Have you ever even played the fucking game?

 

[Hollywooda]

been a fan of these reviews but 2nd week in a row not funny nor do i agree?... i think very much like the madworld ballon u described this bubble has popped. shame used 2 be good...

 

[dcomproductions]

Quit fucking bashing the Wii and do your job. Bash the game, not the console.

Oh, and as a rule, Yahtzee, I think you should only review games that are considered genuinely horrible by everyone. That way, I won't feel like throwing rocks/eggs/coconuts at the Escapist headquarters.

I really don't see why people hate this game so much. The gameplay is actually quite good, the controls work well, and the art style and sense of humour are great.

Oh, and as for you sheep that agree with every review Yahtzee ever puts out, I have one question:

Have you ever even played the fucking game?

first off he's a critic for games, if there aren't any good games for the system (or just not enough to make it's moneys worth) he's going to tell us and not just talk about how much the games suck and you end up buying it and realize that most everything is the same as it would have been if you'd just got a NES and get really pissed off because he didn't tell most games are the same fucking thing.

second, if he does reviews for games that are just thought of completely and genuinely horrible by everyone, it defeats the whole damn purpose of watching the damn thing, sure it's funny but you already knew that game sucks ass so just go talk to a friend about and it's the same thing.

thirdly, sure the game may be good but it's short and the same thing over and over again just different names and shit. you might as well play one of the torture games on the internet for free, it's a good amount alike. also i think people hate it because it's for the wii. not that many people who own a wii can really get this game cause A: they bought the wii cause they're really low on money, and B: they're kids and the reason they have a wii is because they have maybe 1 or 2 M games for it that may actually make the kid want to buy it.

 

[GenericWit]

R u talking 2 people who actually own a Wii and are over the age of 12...and have no other next gen console....

The Wii sucks....its controls are unbearable, I fucking own one, if u want my Wii code as proof so b it...I HATE the motion sensing BS, and Ben (Yahtzee)clearly agrees with me...I found games that weren't heavily motion sensing dependent to be more enjoyable and the funny part is for games like Mario kart where their is the option...the controller wins every time vs motion sensing....Nintendo is so much about gimmicks they are alienating REAL gamers like me and Yahtzee (I suppose, I won't speak for him)

So why do you own one?

And this "REAL gamers" bull is precisely what I'm talking about. You are not more entitled to your opinion because you can play Kaizo Mario World without saves or were one of the beta testers for the Atari 2600 or because your PC rig is bigger than anyone else's. We are all people playing games where we pretend to be spacemen and plumbers and the world's least subtle Black Ops officers, and the Wii's failure to target you will not result in Nintendo going bankrupt no matter how much you wish it so. The Wii is an objective success and though you can gripe that it doesn't have the best game library or variety of genres or that the motion sensing could be improved (Nintendo seems to even agree with you on that, what with "Motion Plus"), trying to claim that it's the worst thing since the Jaguar is just your sense of entitlement showing.

I'm a bit late on this, but I agree with you. I actually really liked the game, and I think the fact that Yahtzee's biggest complaint was that the game was on the wii was actually just to take a poke at the wii, not to say that the game sucked. I may be misinterpreting that, but... he's reviewed a lot of really good games, and I can only name a few off the top of my head that he gave truly positive reviews to (like Portal).

I think it's ridiculous that people are jumping on the wii-bashing bandwagon just to be on a bandwagon. I'll agree that the wii isn't the most classically "hardcore" console in the sense that there's no Halo on it or whatever reason people are classifying what they are as "hardcore."

I remember at the beginning of the console wars when everyone loved the wii. Take it for what it is. I own one, and I have fun playing Madworld and Mario and World of Goo.

Edit: Didn't read the post above me, but uhh... yeah, I think as a video game reviewer, he's allowed to say whatever he wants with or without reason. We just need to lighten up a bit, eh?