Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

[VonBlade]

Welcome to analogy time children. If games can be brilliant but afflicted with a crippling flaw so bad that it whites-out all the good parts of it and leaves you solely focussed upon the aforementioned weakness, then Zero Punctuation is directly comparable.

It doesn't matter how gut-wrenchingly funny it is (and it is), nor how accurate the reviews are (and they are), all you are left with is a feeling of spleen-exploding annoyance at the commercials that have been welded on to the end.

A piece written by Yahtzee, no matter how tangential it is, is witty and in keeping with the reason we're here. A commercial for the rest of this website is tenuous, but not overly cringesome because you're the hosts.

This has got beyond ridiculous. 7 minutes of Yahtzee (lovely), oh. Sorry. That's 4 minutes of Yahtzee and 3 minutes of completely inconsequential toss.

To paraphrase Bill Hicks, "if you're in advertising, kill yourself. No joke. Quit putting a god damn dollar sign on every fucking thing on this planet!"

Thank you.

 

[YYZed]

i think Urealms is still funny >_> only thing thats wroung is its the same stuff from Youtube but with better graphics, oh well watchya goin to do its fun to see awesome videos get an upgrade.

 

[TerraMGP]

I think those details added ALOT ot the game. I think more games should add in that kind of thing. Its much more interesting when the good guys and bad guys feel human as opposed to when they just seem like, well MGS3 is a good example. I WANTED to hear long backstories about them, I wanted to know what the hell was up with the pain or what the fear did that made him the way he is... those would have been NICE to know. It would have added alot to the setting and the story as a whole. Its that content that is just the most interesting and adds the rich detail that makes the game worth playing.

As for you Bibbles I am out. Frankly I think people like you are the reason the world is in the state it is in. So go ahead and act like a jerk, and when some selfish moron gets us all killed remember your just like him.

 

[Churchman]

Welcome to analogy time children. If games can be brilliant but afflicted with a crippling flaw so bad that it whites-out all the good parts of it and leaves you solely focussed upon the aforementioned weakness, then Zero Punctuation is directly comparable.

It doesn't matter how gut-wrenchingly funny it is (and it is), nor how accurate the reviews are (and they are), all you are left with is a feeling of spleen-exploding annoyance at the commercials that have been welded on to the end.

A piece written by Yahtzee, no matter how tangential it is, is witty and in keeping with the reason we're here. A commercial for the rest of this website is tenuous, but not overly cringesome because you're the hosts.

This has got beyond ridiculous. 7 minutes of Yahtzee (lovely), oh. Sorry. That's 4 minutes of Yahtzee and 3 minutes of completely inconsequential toss.

To paraphrase Bill Hicks, "if you're in advertising, kill yourself. No joke. Quit putting a god damn dollar sign on every fucking thing on this planet!"

Thank you.

Its not like the ad is before the bloody vid, you dont have to watch it.

 

[SirSchmoopy]

Also Mister Moran, I mean no disrespect its just, well to be frank everything seemed kinda forced so far, like rushing though all the old jokes instead of starting fresh.

Sorry but you can't call some one an asshole then say "No Disrespect". My series is my series and "Fans" like you obviously don't know a lot about it you don't even understand the reasons for not restarting fresh. For every one of you there would have been ten people crying that I did things differently so rather then start fresh I would rather transition from the old style to the new style but this isn't the place to start a new topic so keep to the point at hand.


The MG4 doesn't FEEL like a MG game. Hows that? If it's suppose to be your little story book then fine ignore everything I said but I bought it buying "Metal Gear Four" not "Metal Gear: The Personal Pop up Book Experience".

 

[Lord Doomhammer]

As for you Bibbles I am out. Frankly I think people like you are the reason the world is in the state it is in. So go ahead and act like a jerk, and when some selfish moron gets us all killed remember your just like him.

You think I am a jerk because our views are different, if you were looking at this with the perspective of someone who is by far and large not concerned then you would see the hilarity of the situation. But thank you for the mood booster.

 

[VMerken]

FF game stories, aside from 9 anyways, stopped being good after six. Again I have to say its not redundant rambling, people just don't have the ability to really care about something and pay attention that long anymore. Its literally ADD. You just want them to 'get to the point' when they are doing it. They are getting to the point, they are just giving you ALL the information. Its INTERESTING. Besides again if you really hate them that much and hate the story skip it. Lengthy character and plot development are in no way signs of bad writing and if your looking for a game to JUST play then why on earth are you playing an RPG?

Well, using MGS4 as an example, there are several good reasons why having a small game:cut scene ratio in a video game is not recommendable. Like I said, you paid good money for the game, so you're bound to watch the cutscenes first time around. And in MGS4's case, that works to its disadvantage as they are:

(a) usually very long. Which adds greatly to the story, yes, but detracts enormously from the game and makes the players feel increasingly less involved with the story - you become something of an outsider to it, and as a result gradually start to care less. Luckily, Kojima added interactive moments in case you're falling asleep. But, they also grow tiresome/old after a while (and, waiting 10-20 minutes to rapidly press X for a single flashback in the entire scene is not that great). By the way, even patient people without ADD might object to 23 minutes of WAITING (or playing CAMERA (WO)MAN if you prefer) before they can dig into the GAME they just bought.

The Elf in Warcraft 2 said it best I think: "Even the Elder Races get tired of waiting".

(b) feature such cool moves/acrobatics that Snake's in-game moves begin to feel tame by comparison. You get to see all these awesome stunts, but don't get to do them for yourself. A big disappointment for me, since I love games a la Devil may Cry which allow just that. Also, the locales depicted in the cut scenes are usually so brilliant that I can't help myself but wonder how great it would have been if you could actually play in them. Maybe Kojima wanted you to feel that Snake wasn't the absolute badass in the game anymore, but to me it feels like a missed opportunity.

(c) are utterly embarassing on multiple occasions. There are multiple scenes in there which are okay for a kid's game, but for a mature audience? No no no no. I can't go into details here as I don't want to spoil the game for others, but there are multiple sequences in there where you can't help but think what Kojima was smoking while putting them in a game for, ahem, **18+** gamers.

I sat through all the cutscenes and Codec conversations (which are surprisingly limited this time around) and after watching them all, I agree with Yahtzee that MGS4 really needed some trimming/editing there. Most of them were awesome and all, but I can't help but feel that some professional "house cleaning" would have greatly increased the experience for the average gamer and even the average MGS fan.

 

[tratorix]

I think those details added ALOT ot the game. I think more games should add in that kind of thing. Its much more interesting when the good guys and bad guys feel human as opposed to when they just seem like, well MGS3 is a good example. I WANTED to hear long backstories about them, I wanted to know what the hell was up with the pain or what the fear did that made him the way he is... those would have been NICE to know. It would have added alot to the setting and the story as a whole. Its that content that is just the most interesting and adds the rich detail that makes the game worth playing.

As for you Bibbles I am out. Frankly I think people like you are the reason the world is in the state it is in. So go ahead and act like a jerk, and when some selfish moron gets us all killed remember your just like him.

This is the main difference of opinions, I think. I personally don't think details like this make a character seem more human. If a character has a backstory and a motivation, they can be very lifelike in my book. You don't need to know everything about them to know who they are and what drives them.

 

[Lim-Dul]

Guys - just because you or someone else finds a game enjoyable doesn't mean that it's e.g. well written. Distinguish between subjective FEELINGS, as in "I like the game", and objective judgment like "the game is badly written". These two things are not mutually exclusive.

Don't give me any of the "everything is subjective" crap that is ever so popular nowadays because clearly it ISN'T. Believe it or not but there are some universal RULES to writing and anybody who attacks you with a wall of text without having the stylistic prowess (like e.g. Thomas Mann) to make it worthwhile commits a writer's primary sin.

Let me give you an analogy. "Trash films" (like low-budget horrors) aren't good films, by ANY standards - no, not even in "their genre" because this particular genre was invented only so that people don't feel bad about liking bad movies.

Nobody will ever be able to convince you to "not like" a game because this is emotional, highly subjective territory. You can, however, claim that some aspect of any given game is OBJECTIVELY bad by providing solid arguments (which Yahtzee always does to a certain extent) but that won't change a single thing about this whole situation. You are NOT automatically a moron for liking something deemed bad and it isn't a personal attack against you... Just live with it but don't try to roll out nonsensical fanboy arguments that are sent on a completely different non-factual wavelength - just don't be blinded by your emotions so much as to not see any flaws in your object of adoration. ;-)

P.S. It's funny - I had a similar discussion about ctf_2fort (Team Fortress 2) with a certain guy. I gave many quite solid arguments why the map is objectively bad from a map-design perspective and he only refuted with things like "but I like it", "it's fun to play it", "it is popular" and so forth. So what? Again, all these statements aren't mutually exclusive - in fact they don't even overlap in any way.

 

[John Funk]

Remember children, when he points out genuine flaws and gives an honest review of what he liked and didn't like in a game YOU don't like, it's genuine reporting.

When he points out genuine flaws and gives an honest review of what he liked and didn't like in a game YOU like, it's selling out.

As TerraMGP has more than illustrated for us

 

[TerraMGP]

But thats not what it was supposed to be, it never was. This is Hideos last game of the series, it was going to be, and was, the thing that tied up all the loose ends. The man does not make games for people who don't get what hes doing, and still won't then I'm sorry you paid money for a game that anyone familiar with Hideos work could have told you was going to be a book more than anything. Just look at ZOE for crying out loud.

And yes I fully realize some fans would be upset, but you won't draw in any new fans if your not funny, and your not anymore. I was hoping to use a bit of diplomacy and make you think, but as you said not something to discuss here.

 

[FSBlueApocalypse]

The first review I watched was Super Mario Galaxy and the entire tone of the article is very different. With reviews like SMG, Guitar Hero 3, Mass Effect, etc, he pointed out the obvious flaws in the games that mainstream critics left out, but still gave them their due at the end. However, the reviews lately have been falling into a definete pattern
JRPGs Suck
Dialogue Bad
Lots of Guns/Combat Good
Yahtzee has said many times he is a "Games are Art" guy yet almost every game that tries to trancend the genre and be something more (Mass Effect, The Witcher, Assassin's Creed) he bitches about them getting in the way of the player.
It seems that ZP has hit the crossroad every form of entertainment hits when it becomes mainstream, some people find that its lost what it got it there in the first place. Whatever, I'm sure The Escapist is paying you handsomely (if not you're getting screwed based on the amount of ads) and congratulations for that. I'll still tune in every Wednesday, but not with the same joy I used to.

 

[Magugag]

As for you Bibbles I am out. Frankly I think people like you are the reason the world is in the state it is in. So go ahead and act like a jerk, and when some selfish moron gets us all killed remember your just like him.

Woah woah woah. This is where you need to take a moment and breathe. Nothing Bibbles there said was even remotely as offensive, and that was a little uncalled for. He supports something he loves, you support something you love, can you not see the parallel here? Methinks things are being taken a tad too personally ma'am.

 

[John Funk]

But thats not what it was supposed to be, it never was. This is Hideos last game of the series, it was going to be, and was, the thing that tied up all the loose ends. The man does not make games for people who don't get what hes doing, and still won't then I'm sorry you paid money for a game that anyone familiar with Hideos work could have told you was going to be a book more than anything. Just look at ZOE for crying out loud.

And yes I fully realize some fans would be upset, but you won't draw in any new fans if your not funny, and your not anymore. I was hoping to use a bit of diplomacy and make you think, but as you said not something to discuss here.

I played MGS1, MGS2, MGS3. Enjoyed them, but does that make them flawless masterpieces? Of course not. I know *exactly* what Hideo's trying to do with MGS, but that does not for a single second mean the game is above reproach.

 

[Groovewood]

I think those details added ALOT ot the game. I think more games should add in that kind of thing. Its much more interesting when the good guys and bad guys feel human as opposed to when they just seem like, well MGS3 is a good example. I WANTED to hear long backstories about them, I wanted to know what the hell was up with the pain or what the fear did that made him the way he is... those would have been NICE to know. It would have added alot to the setting and the story as a whole. Its that content that is just the most interesting and adds the rich detail that makes the game worth playing.

Well, I guess I'll call this up to the classic "Different Strokes for different folks." You enjoy the background details, I personally don't. Like I said, it's a work of fiction, I buy into it, no need to hit me over the head with long winded explanations to make me buy into it more. I liked Vamp more as a vampire then a guy with nanomachines (then again I love Castlevania so that might be why I preferred the former.)

However, in the previous MGS' a lot of the background data was revealed through optional codec calls. Since I like giant mechs, I called Sigint in MGS 3 to find out more about the Shagohad (however you spell that thing) since I found it interesting. If the player didn't care about the tank, then he wouldn't call or skip the conversation, in MGS 4 though, it's all in cut scene form, and I'm not going to skip anything for fear of missing part of the actual story. MGS 4 did away with the codec, so crammed alot of that extra detail into the actual cut scenes to make up. Overall, the game's cut scenes just feel bloated more than anything else, very little essential stuff, but lots of minor little stuff filling in the spaces between the real plot points.

 

[TerraMGP]

.... why do I even bother? As I have said before in the end its about the hypocracy of him bashing a game he very well could have made. Frankly he didn't even do a good job of bashing all the flaws in the game but thats not even the point. The fact that I think most of you who can't handle cut scenes out there need to lay off the Halo is irrelevent. the FACT is that he wrote a game that is very much like most of Hideos work and then he bashes MGS4 for something HE has done himself. how hard is that to understand?

 

[YYZed]

"It's good to remember that all reviews are subjected personal opinions because if you personally enjoy the game then you shouldn't let them get to you. Unless theres a little nibbling doubt in the back of your mind convincing you that your not having as much fun as you think your having."

Quoted Yahtzee May 7, 2008. Mailbag Showdown.

 

[Joeshie]

I'm glad Yahtzee called out MGS4 on the shitty storytelling. MGS has always suffered from interesting stories getting dragged down by terrible storytelling.

In a series that puts so much focus on the narrative, you would think they could have improved upon it a bit.

 

[TerraMGP]

The first review I watched was Super Mario Galaxy and the entire tone of the article is very different. With reviews like SMG, Guitar Hero 3, Mass Effect, etc, he pointed out the obvious flaws in the games that mainstream critics left out, but still gave them their due at the end. However, the reviews lately have been falling into a definete pattern
JRPGs Suck
Dialogue Bad
Lots of Guns/Combat Good
Yahtzee has said many times he is a "Games are Art" guy yet almost every game that tries to trancend the genre and be something more (Mass Effect, The Witcher, Assassin's Creed) he bitches about them getting in the way of the player.
It seems that ZP has hit the crossroad every form of entertainment hits when it becomes mainstream, some people find that its lost what it got it there in the first place. Whatever, I'm sure The Escapist is paying you handsomely (if not you're getting screwed based on the amount of ads) and congratulations for that. I'll still tune in every Wednesday, but not with the same joy I used to.

This sums it all up. I'd buy it that it was simply his opinion if their was consistency.

 

[PrimeZero2]

Just as I thought, this turned out to be just like the Mass Effect review.

He said jokingly in his CoD4 review that he had started to measure his worth by how much internet traffic he generates. I thought that was funny at the time, but it seems clear to me that he didn't want to play the game. The man knew or was told that an MGS4 review would generate a lot of traffic, and knowing he probably wouldn't enjoy the experience, breezed through it on easy. That's the impression I get from this review.

This is the first review of his I've strongly disagreed with. He can complain about the cut-scene length all he wants, I know many take issue with them, and that's fine. It's when I started to get the feeling that he and I didn't play the same game is when the red flags started going up. A tranq gun that had infinite ammo and always KOs in one shot? Absolutely no emhasis on stealth? Having to hold down L1 AND triangle to shoot? The "EZ" gun as it was called in MGS3 is only available on the easiest setting. You can only place little to no emphasis on "Tactical Espionage" on the two easiest settings, and the only guns that you had to tap (tap, mind you, not hold) triangle for was for the sniper rifles.

I know full well that MGS is a "love it or hate it" series. It doesn't bother me that Yahtzee doesn't like it, just as it didn't irk me when he didn't particularly enjoy Mass Effect or Uncharted. What bothers me is that it seems like he's losing his passion for the job. He found the thing he disliked most about the game and apparently just harped on it to satiate the haters and generate traffic. To me, that's not a fair review. I hated Halo 3, and Yahtzee didn't like it either, but he gave it a fair review (even if he did skip the multiplayer). The only things he really accomplished here was riling up the fanboys, generating traffic, and managing to spend 80% of his review complaining about cut-scenes and how the game didn't focus enough on gameplay. Whether you view this as great irony, blatant hypocrisy, or mere coincidence is up to you.

The only thing that I can suggest is that Yahtzee goes back and plays through the game on at least Solid Normal (skipping cut-scenes, of course), and seeing how it's an entirely different game. I'm not looking for some sort of justification, or a revision of the review, or any sort of ego serving response. I just think that he really needs to give the game the fair chance he apparently didn't this time around.