Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

[TerraMGP]

If your that bored go out and play paintball or something, or go play HALO. as I said if your ADD, then you should not be really gaming and if you are stick to poorly made FPS games and leave the rest for those of us who can sit though the meat of the story.As for the Chzo series, it was full of plot holes, its no harder to follow than the MGS series or any less interesting but again as I said its a whole set of games about a Pain elemental who spends two thousand years trying to get an accountant to become his new Scion for some reason. I loved the games, I'm not complaining about that, I'm complaining that the stories are both convoluted and overly complicated and that their is no difference at the core. Those who don't find it exciting? well then don't play it because it wasn't made for you. Personally I have no respect for anyone who has to be constantly over stimulated like that, but my key point is yatzee does the same thing and would probably have a 30 minute cutscene if AGS allowed it.

 

[Churchman]

Huge MGS fan here, and would be playing 4 right now if I had the money, and I had to say this vid was AAA+. The "Oh Chrrrist!" when he was trying to explain the plot reminds me of times I had to explain the end of MGS2 to a friend while he was watching it! Controls have always sucked for MGS but don't care, besides, I've always thought of it as more of a movie where you do things then a game. There is alot of humor derived from a game that talks about such serous subject matter while having uber-powerful psychics, Evil Bi-sexual Russian commanders with the power of lighting.


Fans being upset of this vid remind me of the point that yahtzee brought up in his mailbag vid where if your a fan something like this should be shrugged off, unless its not as fun as you made yourself to think.

 

[Magugag]

Not addressing the Yahtzee hypocrisy issue since I said I wouldn't anymore, I just have to say that it has nothing to do with ADD when a person doesn't want to listen to a game go on about itself rather than play the game. Look at me, I'm a Final Fantasy fanboy, self-admitted. Those cutscenes are brilliant, gorgeous and seldom last for more than five minutes unless you've just beaten the game. They are story driven, but do not ramble. There's a difference between having a short attention span or small appreciation for story and recognizing the fact that storyline is given in a redundant and rambling manner. It's not a sign of the degradation of our society because someone buys a game expecting to play the sucker.

 

[TerraMGP]

FF game stories, aside from 9 anyways, stopped being good after six. Again I have to say its not redundant rambling, people just don't have the ability to really care about something and pay attention that long anymore. Its literally ADD. You just want them to 'get to the point' when they are doing it. They are getting to the point, they are just giving you ALL the information. Its INTERESTING. Besides again if you really hate them that much and hate the story skip it. Lengthy character and plot development are in no way signs of bad writing and if your looking for a game to JUST play then why on earth are you playing an RPG?

 

[Groovewood]

Not addressing the Yahtzee hypocrisy issue since I said I wouldn't anymore, I just have to say that it has nothing to do with ADD when a person doesn't want to listen to a game go on about itself rather than play the game. Look at me, I'm a Final Fantasy fanboy, self-admitted. Those cutscenes are brilliant, gorgeous and seldom last for more than five minutes unless you've just beaten the game. They are story driven, but do not ramble. There's a difference between having a short attention span or small appreciation for story and recognizing the fact that storyline is given in a redundant and rambling manner. It's not a sign of the degradation of our society because someone buys a game expecting to play the sucker.

Exactly. A big deal with the game is expectation. When I play a game about vampires, cyborg ninjas, and giant walking tanks, I expect a fun game with action. Not 30 minute cut scenes, explaining all the convoluted story arcs. MGS has a ridiculous story, but the game seems to think it's amazing. It isn't, it's dumb and silly, and I'm all for dumb and silly, but only when the makers have the ability to look at it and say "yeah, that is pretty dumb." MGS treats it's crappy goofy storyline likes it's the definitive work of fiction of the 20th century. Like I said, it's expectation. I expect a silly game with a silly story line to be silly fun, not some bloated self-indulged interactive movie.

And, I don't have ADD, I'm a history major, trust me, I've sat through 5 hour lectures about markings of ancient sewer systems. I can sit through boring stuff, but not when I pay $60 for a game that makes common use of a cybernetic ninja who came back from the dead.

 

[TerraMGP]

Well then why are you buying an MGS game if your not into the story? Seriously. and if its not ADD then you just are not interested, doesn't mean its bad it just means you don't care.

 

[Magugag]

Once again, the point of my post which you completely missed was that I love storyline. I love a good romance or an epic duel of fates and the cliche goodguy badguy struggle. I don't want to just 'get to the point', but pacing, my friend, is part of presenting storyline effectively. Assuming that your audience can remember what you told them ten minutes ago is part of presenting storyline. Keeping things moving and letting the player play the game is part of gaming. When ALL I want is storyline, I pick the the Wheel of Time series or one of George R. R. Martin's books. High fantasy kicks ass, storyline kicks ass, but Final Fantasy proves that you can present complex story without stealing control from the player for a half an hour. And don't bash Final Fantasy ('cept eight or eleven) or I'll open a can of whoop-ass. My point is that when a game allows storyline to interfere with rather than enhance an experience, that game has failed at effectively delivering the storyline. It can be complex and interesting until the cows come home (which I'm not convinced Metal Gear's storylines are) but the game still is not doing its job if gameplay is sacrificed for that complex plot.

 

[Noname55]

Lengthy character and plot development are in no way signs of bad writing and if your looking for a game to JUST play then why on earth are you playing an RPG?

But MGS4 ISN'T a RPG, it's a self-proclaimed "tactical espionage action" game. For an action game, it has way too many rambling cut scenes. Also, saying those who don't like your game's 30 minute cutscenes have ADD is a sure sign of fanboyism (or in this case fangirlism).

 

[tratorix]

I find this whole "The longer the cutscenes, the better the story" idea to be rather annoying. Long cutscenes in games are typically a lot of exposition and nothing else. They break the flow of the game to have characters tell you backstory and character traits. Good writing has this worked into actual dialogue, not just huge infodumps. Just because someone doesn't want the game to stop for a half hour while they play, doesn't mean they are some sort of uncultured idiot.

 

[Lord Doomhammer]

So since this has only been out for about 5 hours and we are already on page 8, I imagine all of you raging fan boys have given Yahatzee enough of your bile for him to do another mail bag show down.

 

[TerraMGP]

Bah, they are just intended for games that are more story than anything. Frankly I think most of the people here who say they don't like the story just find it hard to follow. It makes you think but it does make sense. and Tratoix, if they are getting a game like MGS I would say so. But I am trying to keep my personal opinion out of it, because that opinion states that they would be yes. Fact is though that the game presented its story well and if you really don't like the cutscenes you should not be playing the game in the first place.

 

[spungemonkey]

MGS 1 & 2 were amazing (Never owned a PS2 so I've not played 3) and I really want to play this. I've seen the first 80 minutes of the game via videos on youtube, and your comment about the length of time before your first fight, and the excessive amount of items you have appear to be spot on.

I - however - have not played to game to say whether ot not I agree with your opinion, but in the end thats not why I'm here. I'm here because you're reviews are hilarious and this, as always, hasn't failed.


*Insert Fanboyism here*

 

[TerraMGP]

So since this has only been out for about 5 hours and we are already on page 8, I imagine all of you raging fan boys have given Yahatzee enough of your bile for him to do another mail bag show down.

Seriously your the worst kind of human being, trying to egg others on for a laugh.

 

[Churchman]

So since this has only been out for about 5 hours and we are already on page 8, I imagine all of you raging fan boys have given Yahatzee enough of your bile for him to do another mail bag show down.

Seriously your the worst kind of human being, trying to egg others on for a laugh.

Defensive much?

 

[Groovewood]

Well then why are you buying an MGS game if your not into the story? Seriously. and if its not ADD then you just are not interested, doesn't mean its bad it just means you don't care.

I am into the story line, that shouldn't however suggest, that I'll suck up all the juices leaking from the bloated game. Here's an example from the game: S.O.P (the system of nanomachines that effectively monitor the physical / mental well being of every soldier.) I understand what SOP is in a nutshell, but the game decides to spend 10 minutes filling me in with a bunch of pseudoscience nonsense about the system. I don't care, that what the processing speed is, I don't care what neurons it suppresses, all I need to know are mini robots in the blood control soldiers thats it. That is just unnecessary exposition, it doesn't make the game more believable for me. Hell it's a work of fiction, I understand that it isn't real, the game doesn't need to fill me up with some bs explanation so that I'll accept it.

The actual storyline is moderately interesting, they just tack so much extra crap to it, that makes it feel so damn heavy, things constantly get explained that have no reason to, it's just cluttered, and it gets so complex that the only way they can get all the details out are too having drawn out cutscenes that just ramble on about all the background of the actual story. MGS gives everything away, there are no mysteries or shrouded myths, because the game addresses everything, and beats you over the head with pointless exposition.

 

[Magugag]

Mailbag showdown was funny, but I'd rather see him review Battlefield: Bad Company myself.

 

[SirSchmoopy]

Says the man whos new incarnation of his series is, well quite frankly bland as salteens. I loved the old Urealms and its just not funny anymore. Go back to mocking D&D/gamer stereotypes and stop rushing though old Memes man. anyways that rant is over.

Why does everyone think that cutscenes are a BAD thing? They are GOOD! I loved the cut scenes in this and I think it brought ALL of the old games togeather very well. My problem though isn't even that he said "if your a fan you will like it if not you won't" Its that he is BASHING FOR THINGS HE DOES HIMSELF WHEN MAKING A GAME! He is a hypocrite, plain and simple.

Seriously though, please try and get Urealms back on track.

lol@ the first part but anyway.


Cutscenes aren't BAD when used properly but Metal Gear 4 uses them as a way to string the game together instead of balancing them at all. Your running along and then bam cutscene, and not just a quick one but a LONG ONE and sometimes they serve no point. Some cutscenes don't even need to be cutscenes, the dialogue could have just been included in the action or in part of the game but no. They want to stop the game play, remove you and go back to story telling which in all accounts is a good story but it's kinda like taking a really good book then adding another 15 chapters that are only there to REMIND you of previous chapters in case you had forgot them. The problem i have with cutscenes in MG4 is they are very intrusive at times, they completely take away the game aspect and turn it into a an interactive story book which I would totally be fine with if the game was called METAL GEAR FOUR: INTERACTIVE STORY SPY ADVENTURE BOOK.

 

[TerraMGP]

The "Extra crap" as you call it is the detail that makes it so interesting. It feels alot more like playing a tabletop that way, or reading a book. Thats what I don't get about people why all this extra data is not lifted up as one of the high points of the game. Its like back when the original "Star wars guide to ____" books came out and you got to read up on details about all the diffrent droids/ships/ext.

Also Mister Moran, I mean no disrespect its just, well to be frank everything seemed kinda forced so far, like rushing though all the old jokes instead of starting fresh.

 

[tratorix]

Well then why are you buying an MGS game if your not into the story? Seriously. and if its not ADD then you just are not interested, doesn't mean its bad it just means you don't care.

The actual storyline is moderately interesting, they just tack so much extra crap to it, that makes it feel so damn heavy, things constantly get explained that have no reason to, it's just cluttered, and it gets so complex that the only way they can get all the details out are too having drawn out cutscenes that just ramble on about all the background of the actual story. MGS gives everything away, there are no mysteries or shrouded myths, because the game addresses everything, and beats you over the head with pointless exposition.

Exactly. Like in the first game when Otacon decides to go in to a long speech about his nickname, or you learn Sniper Wolfs entire backstory just in time for her to die. It really adds nothing to the game or the story, it's just inane details.

 

[Lord Doomhammer]

You actually think I care? This is just like SSBB, sony fanboys are leaping into the flames to defend themselves against... well as far as I am concerned, the truth. I am a Microsoft fanboy, and frankly I am flattered that Yahtzee thinks Microsoft is sadistic enough to have a built in obsoleteness filter. I took his review of Halo3 with a 20 pound grain of salt because he never cuts anyone, especially popular games, a break; besides, halo is much like MGS in that if you havent seen the backstory you won't like it.