Zero Punctuation: Papers, Please and Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons

[Evonisia]

Greetings,

I was inspired to create this account when I saw the initial post on Tumblr.

Most of you seem like very bright, intelligent individuals. But underlying your words seems to be a cruel streak towards the LBGT, Trans, and Otherkin community.

Sexuality is a defining part of many people, and Crowshaw's blatant disregard for that by blatantly utilizing a harmful, hurtful, and graphic slur against us.

I'm formally urging the Escapist staff to take down the video and have Crowshaw reassess his use of this slur.

Thank you in advance.

I'd recommend you look up the rest of the series. There's plenty of holocaust, homosexual, S&M, rape and grievous bodily harm jokes. If there must be a joke that Yahtzee should be punished for, I don't think it would be the one in this episode.

 

[commitsudoku]

It is either all ok or none of it is.

 

[CaptainChip]

The point is, they don't help. They make things worse for a group that already has it worse than almost any other group in terms of acceptance. Maybe a joke at the expense of a white middle class cis man doesn't hurt their acceptance by society, but that's what privilige is about. Trans people don't have that luxury, and just because it wouldn't hurt your particular intersection of privilige, doesn't mean it doesn't make things worse for others if it's directed at them.

As a middle class white cis man allow me to tell you that what hurts your social acceptance in my eyes isn't the jokes about trannies, but rather your whining regarding them. Instead of just laughing a joke, replying with a joke of your own regarding us CIS scum, you whine and act like spoilt brats.

Fact of the matter is that if you simply ignored it majority of people wouldn't even notice this joke in Yahtzee's video.

THIS. I absolutely agree with this post.

edit: Who do you think people are going to like more, the person who is relaxed, can take a joke, and maybe even joke back, or the person who is constantly offended and starting fights?

 

[emmyisnotcool]

They are not guys though. They are transsexual women, regardless of the status of their genitalia. Do research before you go off spouting uneducated opinions.

Genetics be damned according to you. At what point does a Y chromosome factor in to your purportedly "educated" analysis? Subjective analysis = making shit up. STANDARDS - they're important. If "status of their genitalia" and Y chromosomes don't factor in at all, then there isn't a determining factor for gender. If that's the case, I'm going to claim I'm a black woman and take advantage of affirmative action right now. If anyone points out my light skin and penis, I'm going to chastise them for spouting off uneducated opinions.

And just to clear some things up:

I will NEVER commit suicide on another person. Also, I won't take responsibility for the actions of others. If transsexual people want to kill themselves that's their business. I will do nothing to stand in the way of people's rights of self-determination; whether that be their right to determine for themselves what gender/sexuality they will exhibit or whether or not they should be alive.

capcha: wild goose chase -- we're getting there

Uh. What the fuck? All I said was that calling a transsexual woman a "tranny" is pretty much the same as calling a gay man a "fag".

 

[undercisjudgement]

Greetings,

I was inspired to create this account when I saw the initial post on Tumblr.

Most of you seem like very bright, intelligent individuals. But underlying your words seems to be a cruel streak towards the LBGT, Trans, and Otherkin community.

Sexuality is a defining part of many people, and Crowshaw's blatant disregard for that by blatantly utilizing a harmful, hurtful, and graphic slur against us.

I'm formally urging the Escapist staff to take down the video and have Crowshaw reassess his use of this slur.

Thank you in advance.

:0 I am in the lab, laughing hysterically to myself, and giving away that I'm not working right now. Thank you trolls of Escapist for brightening my afternoon.

I don't take your meaning.

Greetings,

I was inspired to create this account when I saw the initial post on Tumblr.

Most of you seem like very bright, intelligent individuals. But underlying your words seems to be a cruel streak towards the LBGT, Trans, and Otherkin community.

Sexuality is a defining part of many people, and Crowshaw's blatant disregard for that by blatantly utilizing a harmful, hurtful, and graphic slur against us.

I'm formally urging the Escapist staff to take down the video and have Crowshaw reassess his use of this slur.

Thank you in advance.

I'd recommend you look up the rest of the series. There's plenty of holocaust, homosexual, S&M, rape and grievous bodily harm jokes. If there must be a joke that Yahtzee should be punished for, I don't think it would be the one in this episode.

Honestly, I don't need to see any more of Crowshaw's work. And yes, I'm sure he does "make fun" of other groups. It's just that they are not well represented on the Internet. The Trans Community is very well engaged and it shouldn't be surprising that this came to our attention relatively quickly.

It's hurtful and it needs to be taken down.

You people joke about the gap between name calling and violence but many of us have been assaulted, sexually and otherwise, because of our sexual identities.

 

[wAriot]

Uh. What the fuck? All I said was that calling a transsexual woman a "tranny" is pretty much the same as calling a gay man a "fag".

Perfectly fine depending on context?

 

[KefkaCultist]

Guys, this is why we can't have nice things... Yahtzee didn't direct it at anyone and it was meant in pure humor, not malice. Now, before you go quoting me saying I'm insensitive towards the LGBT community you should know that I'm in the LGBT community.

Just gonna leave this bit from Steve Hughes' standup for all you arguing about this.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b48_1305790944

 

[emmyisnotcool]

Uh. What the fuck? All I said was that calling a transsexual woman a "tranny" is pretty much the same as calling a gay man a "fag".

Perfectly fine depending on context?

Yes. It does depend on context. A trans person calling themselves a tranny is alright (akin to the use of any slur in reference to oneself). It can be okay when among friends because you are close enough and know each other enough to know that no offense is intended. Some random stranger referring to a whole group of people using those same words in a derogatory way is not the same as the prior examples. I'm not talking about yahtzee here, but any of the numerous posts referring to trans people as trannies/heshes/shemales/its etc...

 

[BrendanFinn]

THIS. I absolutely agree with this post.

edit: Who do you think people are going to like more, the person who is relaxed, can take a joke, and maybe even joke back, or the person who is constantly offended and starting fights?

The way I see it it's like there's a group of friends and they're all out there getting drunk and taking a piss out of each other for a laugh or two. There's this tranny among them and he's joining in laughing at the jokes making fun of that guy for being Jewish, laughing at a joke taking a piss of that ginger guy, laughing at a joke taking a mick out of that asian dude and suddenly someone cracks a tranny joke and he gets all worked up about it and starts bitching and moaning.

Of course you're gonna cast him out of your little group (the social rejection), but not because he's a tranny but because he's an asshole that can't take a joke at his expense but doesn't have a problem laughing at jokes that are on the expense of others. Fuck that guy right? Who gives two shits about what he is and what he feels like, if we're all taking a piss out of each other and you're in the group, you're gonna have a piss taken out of you as well.

 

[wAriot]

Yes. It does depend on context. A trans person calling themselves a tranny is alright (akin to the use of any slur in reference to oneself). It can be okay when among friends because you are close enough and know each other enough to know that no offense is intended. Some random stranger referring to a whole group of people using those same words in a derogatory way is not the same as the prior examples. I'm not talking about yahtzee here, but any of the numerous posts referring to trans people as trannies/heshes/shemales/its etc...

Of course, I don't defend the use of "tranny" and other slurs, in a DEROGATORY way.
But many people just use it to shorten the word, not because they see negative connotations in it. I personally even find "tranny" cute, but that's just me.

 

[FFP2]

Wow, this thread really TRANSformed into a shitstorm hey?

OT: It's just one joke out of the thousands that Yahtzee has made. And I love how nobody is taking offense to the gas chambers joke.

If ya'll had your way comedians wouldn't exist and the world would be a much sadder place.

 

[Miroluck]

Honestly, I don't need to see any more of Crowshaw's work. And yes, I'm sure he does "make fun" of other groups. It's just that they are not well represented on the Internet. The Trans Community is very well engaged and it shouldn't be surprising that this came to our attention relatively quickly.

It's hurtful and it needs to be taken down.

And here we go. I always knew mulders were fond of fascism.

 

[Warachia]

Greetings,

I was inspired to create this account when I saw the initial post on Tumblr.

Most of you seem like very bright, intelligent individuals. But underlying your words seems to be a cruel streak towards the LBGT, Trans, and Otherkin community.

Sexuality is a defining part of many people, and Crowshaw's blatant disregard for that by blatantly utilizing a harmful, hurtful, and graphic slur against us.

I'm formally urging the Escapist staff to take down the video and have Crowshaw reassess his use of this slur.

Thank you in advance.

The slur was used in reference to something that happens in the game he was reviewing, in that the game doesn't care whether or not a person is a transsexual, saying that they are not what they physically are is enough to be deprived of your passport, and arrested in the game, and the game doesn't depict this as a good thing.

 

[gjkbgt]

did i miss something i don't remember there being a tranny joke in this video?
I mean the no trannies sign in papers please maybe?

 

[Evonisia]

Honestly, I don't need to see any more of Crowshaw's work. And yes, I'm sure he does "make fun" of other groups. It's just that they are not well represented on the Internet. The Trans Community is very well engaged and it shouldn't be surprising that this came to our attention relatively quickly.

It's hurtful and it needs to be taken down.

You people joke about the gap between name calling and violence but many of us have been assaulted, sexually and otherwise, because of our sexual identities.

Admittedly, I'm only loosely in some knowledge of abuse towards the Transgender community (likely in part due to there not being a massive representation in the outskirts of Liverpool). I understand fully if somebody were to take major offence to a joke towards a transgender or it as a whole. I'm assuming that the joke causing all the outrage is the first one, not the sign saying "No Trannies" because one can blame that game for that, and said joke sounds like:
A) More of an insult to the politician that just happens to have insulted transgender people and/or the people that support them.
B) Wasn't intentionally offensive but got a sour reaction.
C) Was done for shock effect but wasn't intended to glorify insulting a transgender.
D) Yahtzee genuinely believes that a Transgender person who has not had surgery should still be recognised by the gender (likely because of Chromosones and the genitalia).

Yes, it's hurtful regardless of whether it's A, B, C, D or something else, but it can't seriously be something that warrants being removed when, as said before he has insulted other sexualities and other sensitive subjects. I guess what I'm trying to say is that just because 'X' has it harder than 'Y', it doesn't mean that a joke about X is any more offensive than one about Y. The solutions being an apology is made, nothing happens or this video is removed and so is every other video with a controversial joke.

Somebody already said it, but without a shadow of a doubt Yahtzee will address this in either his Extra Punctuation next Tuesday or his next Zero Punctuation next Wednesday.

Oh yes and before I forget, welcome to The Escapist, I'm not sure whether you're going to stick around but again, welcome.

 

[ErinBeee]

THIS. I absolutely agree with this post.

edit: Who do you think people are going to like more, the person who is relaxed, can take a joke, and maybe even joke back, or the person who is constantly offended and starting fights?

The way I see it it's like there's a group of friends and they're all out there getting drunk and taking a piss out of each other for a laugh or two. There's this tranny among them and he's joining in laughing at the jokes making fun of that guy for being Jewish, laughing at a joke taking a piss of that ginger guy, laughing at a joke taking a mick out of that asian dude and suddenly someone cracks a tranny joke and he gets all worked up about it and starts bitching and moaning.

Of course you're gonna cast him out of your little group (the social rejection), but not because he's a tranny but because he's an asshole that can't take a joke at his expense but doesn't have a problem laughing at jokes that are on the expense of others. Fuck that guy right? Who gives two shits about what he is and what he feels like, if we're all taking a piss out of each other and you're in the group, you're gonna have a piss taken out of you as well.

The problem is that in society, trans people are not part of the "group"

They are ridiculed and ostracised by a huge majority of people, long before any of the cheap internet or tv show jokes.

Forget it, there's no reasoning with people. Some people here really need to check their privilige and understand that making jokes between friends isn't the same as being ridiculed in almost every depiction. Being ridiculed as the most socially accepted group of people in your country is not the same as being ridiculed as the least socially accepted group of people in a country.

Think of it like school, there's that kind of nerdy kid that everyone makes fun of all the time because he's overweight and rubbish at sport. Life isn't going to improve for him just by laughing it off. Life is going to improve for him if he, and a bunch of his classmates who arn't in his position start to take a stand against it.

There's a difference between playful jokes and ridicule, and when it comes to denying trans people are the gender the identify as in a very popular web show, then it's not a playful joke. Maybe for you it seems like that, but that's because you're in a ridiculously priviliged position in comparison to trans people.

 

[Deep Thought]

I have to say, I am very refreshed and enthused to see a game that expands on non-combat elements in terms of game design. We definitely don't have enough of those games in the industry. It also makes sense that the "moral choices" are more gripping, because the tedium of work is more relatable to most of us than fighting in a war or other combat scenarios. I will definitely check this game out at some point, looks interesting.

 

[CynicalBastard]

If you are male and like sucking dicks; you are gay.
If you are a male sucking a pre-op transexual's dick; you are gay.
The fact that he specified "pre-op" indicates that they would appear far more masculine. If you are attracted to a pre-op transexual; you are gay.
It doesn't matter what state of mind the other person is in, no matter how much they want to be female; they aren't. They're still male. And you are sucking their dick.
The joke isn't insensitive. The joke isn't offensive. The joke is fact.
The joke is that you can't possibly be straight if you suck a pre-op transexual's dick.

 

[Warachia]

Honestly, I don't need to see any more of Crowshaw's work. And yes, I'm sure he does "make fun" of other groups. It's just that they are not well represented on the Internet. The Trans Community is very well engaged and it shouldn't be surprising that this came to our attention relatively quickly.

It's hurtful and it needs to be taken down.

You people joke about the gap between name calling and violence but many of us have been assaulted, sexually and otherwise, because of our sexual identities.

If this is true, then taking down the video IS THE WORST THING YOU COULD POSSIBLY DO.
People will not be happy if you take down the video, they'll blame the transsexual community, and you would be receiving far more threats and these kinds of jokes than if you were to leave it alone, what you should do is explain how you feel about the video, and ask that he refrains from doing this in the future, and why, you can even label him as a terrible person if you want, but trying to just remove the problem in this way will just create a thousand more problems.

Imagine this video is like glass, you think it's disgusting, so you punch it, it's destroyed, but now you have a bunch of shards in your hand.

 

[Warachia]

There's a difference between playful jokes and ridicule, and when it comes to denying trans people are the gender the identify as in a very popular web show, then it's not a playful joke. Maybe for you it seems like that, but that's because you're in a ridiculously priviliged position in comparison to trans people.

And to think, you would actually have a point if he denied transsexual people, but he didn't.