Zero Punctuation: Silent Hill: Downpour

Eric Morales

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Dec 6, 2011
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Where Downpour falls hardest for me is the creature design and I'm glad Yahtzee alluded to that in the review. Even the lackluster silent hills could be counted on for some appealingly surreal monsters. Not nearly enough of that this time around.
 

Gorilla Gunk

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Proverbial Jon said:
Gorilla Gunk said:
Proverbial Jon said:
I think that's the problem right there. You're not supposed to "like" them, you're supposed to be reviled by them, horrified and disgusted. Like Yahtzee said, they're just dudes. Ain't nothing scary about dudes, even if their eyes have been forced open or they scream at you. Frankly the screaming female ones are ridiculous and they make me laugh a bit. Always brightens my day when they come shambling over!
The "You're not suppose to "like" them" argument just doesn't make sense to me. I've quite liked past SH enemies. I don't really see he problem with Downpour's enemies being human-looking. Previous SH games had the nurses which were just, um, nurses with fucked up faces, and Pyramid Head is just a dude with, well, a pyramid on his head, not to mention the ghosts in SH4: The Room.
I was never a fan of the ghosts from SH4, for mostly the same reason. I mean something as literal as a ghost in something as creative as a Silent Hill game always jarred with me somewhat.

Silent Hill 3 had the best designs for monsters and there was nothing human about them but I never really found them all that scary...

The nurses specifically were a manifestation of James' sexual frustration so they had to be sexy to a point so keeping a certain amount of their humanity is understandable. Plus there's something rather terrifying about a nurse who wants to hurt you with a steel pipe. I can't even begin to explain why PH works even though he's just a dude with a pyramid, like you say!

I think you might have a point here, the more I think about it the more I see the human creatures are the more effective. However it doesn't change the fact that I don't find Downpour's enemies scary. Perhaps it's the way they have been used. In SH2 the manequins would just stand in the dark until you approached with the light, the straightjacket things would kind of convulse towards you or slither across the floor and the nurses sort of limped awkwardly and sometimes took pot shots at you with a revolver. The abstract daddy would try to eat your face etc...

Downpour just tends to chuck a load of enemies at you and they all kind of rush you, flailing blindly. With the exception of the weeping bat, that guy's just a jerk. I guess they need just enough hamanity for us to be able to relate and just enough mutilation to keep up the WTF factor.
Yeah, I was going to say they the monsters are fine, it's just that they're not utilized well. The should have given them different behavior patterns. The Weeping Bat and the ghost-mannequin-sex-doll-thing seem fine but more could have been done with the Screamers and Prisoners. If I would have done it I would have had the Screamers mope around crying like the Witch from Left 4 Dead, only attacking when you get near them. Prisoners I'd have wait standing and facing the corner of rooms like they're in timeout (Because, well, they are prisoners and they are being punished, makes sense to me /shrug) only attacking if you make a lot of noise or get close to them.

I also read that there's a sidequest that features a Screamer that's only visible through a mirror. Seems like they missed a golden opportunity for a really interesting enemy.
 

Lt._nefarious

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Apr 11, 2012
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ForgottenPr0digy said:
yeah the monster designs in this game sucks

homecoming had better monster designs and no one but me liked that game

Lies! I liked homecoming and I know people who liked it too...

but yes the monster design in downpour is meh...
 

paislyabmj

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MichaelMaverick said:
Contradiction #1763:

You complain that an inherent plot point in Downpour changing based on your actions cheapens the experience. How is it then different from your Heavy Rain review, where you argued that the big revelation should've been different each time? Could you maybe clarify once and for all what form of story-telling you incline to?
silent hill is (as far as i can tell)a manifestation of a persons guilty mind.the setting and monsters have to symbolise the crime committed by the protagonist. James smothers his wife so the monsters are all effeminate thus increasing the mind fuckery.
all that is lost if the crime the protagonist committed changes depended on the actions taken by the player.imagine if in SH2 there was a choice in the game that would change james from wife killer to bank robber.the whole set up would then make no sense because the scenery would have no relationship to why he is in silent hill.
i think.
 

217not237

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MichaelMaverick said:
Contradiction #1763:

You complain that an inherent plot point in Downpour changing based on your actions cheapens the experience. How is it then different from your Heavy Rain review, where you argued that the big revelation should've been different each time? Could you maybe clarify once and for all what form of story-telling you incline to?
The entire genre of HR was mystery, and, I don't know about you, but I can't enjoy mysteries I know the answer to. Silent Hill isn't a mystery, because in SH2, we didn't know anything was being hidden from us until the end. It seemed like there was just some evil shit going down, and every human being in town was being attacked. In the end, though, it was revealed that there was something behind it all, aka James's psyche. In Heavy Rain, we knew something was being hidden from us, but it remained the same without any other purpose to the game's story but the mystery.
 

BehattedWanderer

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Jun 24, 2009
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And yet he wonders why some of us enjoy new Zelda or Mario titles where they remain as fun and amazing as they've been, managing to slightly change the formula here and there while keeping the core of it intact, even occasionally being better than the heavy hitters in our nostalgia. Be careful of that pedestal, it might not last as long as you think.
 

PrototypeC

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Wow, everyone's really mad at and/or critical of Yahtzee today.

I'm glad that he brought up a lot of the things that were bothering me (the monsters being a big one) but the things that made stop playing and peer at the screen quizzically with my mouth open were more completely unsubtle. For instance, the invisible cop cars that become un-invisible when you get close enough to them so that their sirens go off and monsters appear. NOT SO SILENT NOW, IS IT?

Perhaps the mannequin ghosts. Not even kidding. There are MANNEQUIN GHOSTS. I think they're supposed to be projections from the mannequin, but you know what's scarier than attacking mannequins? Real mannequins. Anyone who can tell me why something unmoving and non-threatening will almost always be scarier than one clearly out for blood will win the golden horror award. Two paragraphs minimum.

Another thing that's still bothering me; you just run into people. Who's that? Oh, it's some dude, he'll commit suicide later. Who's that? Just a homeless guy who will open a door for you in a sidequest, little else. Who's that on the radio? A DJ. He's not important and kind of annoying, like if Three-Dog came to Silent Hill. Feeling lonely yet?
 

PrototypeC

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MichaelMaverick said:
Contradiction #1763: You complain that an inherent plot point in Downpour changing based on your actions cheapens the experience. How is it then different from your Heavy Rain review, where you argued that the big revelation should've been different each time? Could you maybe clarify once and for all what form of story-telling you incline to?
Heavy Rain ends the same way, leaving no room to re-play except to kill or not kill characters for giggles. I guess you get different endings, sort of, except the killer is the same. The purpose of the game is to understand the mystery and survive challenges. There's no point doing either of those again.

Previous Silent Hill games allowed for replayability by being so dense that you enjoy the game even MORE the second time around because you're understanding things like symbolism that went over your head before. Unlockable weapons and outfits were just a bonus. This only works if the "twist" remains constant in the story, like Silent Hill 1 and 2, while Downpour has many "twists", each more "twist"-y than the last and changing every time you play.

Contradiction denied.
 

PunkRex

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Im starting to think I should play SH2. Subtle hints here and there you know?
 

Nieroshai

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One of the things I liked about Downpour was that it showed a protagonist not drawn in by his sins but his regret. It added a new twist, even if the theme was slightly touched on in Origins. As much as I love the Silent Hill formula, seeing the Town "get it wrong" is kind-of refreshing. I could go on more, but meh.
 

Nazrel

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Yopaz said:
I am surprised to hear him say positive things about this game since from what I have seen from other reviews there's been a lot of negative things that have been mentioned. Still his general opinion of the game seemed to indicate that he didn't like it very much so *I think I might give this one a miss.
If you read the details, the complaints in most reviews amount to "This sucks because it's a survival horror game." without the writer realizing that's what they're complaining about... and some choppiness in the Xbox version... and all but 3 monsters looking pretty generic.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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As I've said before, horror is beyond the abillities of current game designers because anything thta is horror to horror fans (jaded) is going to be deeply offensive to the mainstream.

"Silent Hill 2" is the result of a time period before horror gamers had fully sold out, it's right on the line. I have refused to give Konami any money for it because they censored it based on complaints about the demo, but it still has the remnants of being a game designed to be really freaky in it, which shows through. Later "Silent Hill" games, and arguably most horror games in general, were designed around what wasn't going to push too many buttons with the mainstream... as a result they have more or less re-treading what they had already gotten away with, rather than trying to push the envelope and risking public ire.

At the time when I first had gotten my PS-2 it was all over the place that the Silent Hill 2 Demo had groups up in arms over all the bludgeoning of those skinless children that were in the original SH bestiary for example.

Right now, we're unlikely to see anything that good again, until the game industry regenerates it's nuts which it has allowed to be cut off.

In short we should be happy that we managed to get the "Fatal Frame" games when we did, especially seeing as the last one (for the Wii apparently) never made it to the US apparently for similar reasons, and due to the attention the previous games got. Granted they tended more towards the "Creepy" than outright horror.

That said, I would like to see Yahtzee marry a copy of Silent Hill 2, we had an Japanese guy marry a video game character

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-12-16/world/japan.virtual.wedding_1_virtual-world-sal-marry?_s=PM:WORLD


We also had an Aussie marry a dog.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-man-marries-dog,0,210566.story

I think Yahtzee, despite being in Australia, should take this finale step for british pride, flying the Union Jack proudly as he does. :)

I fear what the US will one day do to join this club.
 

Yopaz

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Jun 3, 2009
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Nazrel said:
Yopaz said:
I am surprised to hear him say positive things about this game since from what I have seen from other reviews there's been a lot of negative things that have been mentioned. Still his general opinion of the game seemed to indicate that he didn't like it very much so *I think I might give this one a miss.
If you read the details, the complaints in most reviews amount to "This sucks because it's a survival horror game." without the writer realizing that's what they're complaining about... and some choppiness in the Xbox version... and all but 3 monsters looking pretty generic.
Actually I have read reviews complaining about the combat, the story and the environment, but thanks for pointing out that I have read different reviews than you.
 

Proverbial Jon

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Nov 10, 2009
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Gorilla Gunk said:
Yeah, I was going to say they the monsters are fine, it's just that they're not utilized well. The should have given them different behavior patterns. The Weeping Bat and the ghost-mannequin-sex-doll-thing seem fine but more could have been done with the Screamers and Prisoners. If I would have done it I would have had the Screamers mope around crying like the Witch from Left 4 Dead, only attacking when you get near them. Prisoners I'd have wait standing and facing the corner of rooms like they're in timeout (Because, well, they are prisoners and they are being punished, makes sense to me /shrug) only attacking if you make a lot of noise or get close to them.

I also read that there's a sidequest that features a Screamer that's only visible through a mirror. Seems like they missed a golden opportunity for a really interesting enemy.
Honestly, some of the side missions are better than the actual storyline. I remember the one you mentioned and it was harrowing. I have a thing about mirrors as it is so it doesn't take much to terrify me with one. The screamer is completely invisible on your side of the room and you can only see her to attack if you watch her position in the mirror.

There was one moment within the main story, inside the prison, where I saw a prisoner coming towards me. I don't think he'd clocked my presence because he was walking, just STROLLING, towards me and it was horrible because it wasn't the usual pattern. Somehow it struck the right ballance of familiar and unfamiliar to be really unsettling. He broke back into normal attack mode once I engaged him so I'm not sure if it was intentional or a glitch.

I like your idea about the screamers a lot, Vatra missed a trick with that one. I still don't quite understand the significance of the sex doll but the multiple shadow versions that attack certainly make for some tense battles. Although I found myself avoiding enemies in the game mostly because of the clunky combat which meant they would land far too many hits on me and it wasn't worth the punishment I got. Besides, those prisoners can block a fire axe, with their arms! How does that make sense?
 

Yeager942

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Oct 31, 2008
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Dear Escapist, is the Silent Hill HD collection worth getting? I heard comments about them being in abysmal condition and I've never played Silent Hill before, though I am a huge survival horror fan.
 

Kazedarkwind

Inner Working Reviewer
Nov 18, 2009
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Dear Escapist, can you stop spoiling the video before i get to watch it? "Silent hill Downpour best western game but still shit" well gee that ruins a bit of the surprise factor of the video.

OT: Great video. love the sonic comparison because its almost to true. 3 good games and then bam never again!!