Zero Punctuation: Super Mario 3D Land & Rayman Origins

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144_v1legacy

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Nate-ndo said:
Guilherme Zoldan said:
Nate-ndo said:
Guilherme Zoldan said:
There are fewer raging fanboys then I expected actualy, but to those out there: Why not try actualy addressing Yahtzee's points before chastising him? You know, pretend this is actualy some sort of reasonable debate...

Of course this is the internet, the word reasonable doesnt apply much.
What points about 3D Land's actual content did he make? I watched it three minutes ago and this is what I remember:

-The basic premise (rescue Peach) is the same as many previous Super Mario games
-There are less levels than its console brethren
-You are collecting stars again (factually untrue, may have been a joke?)
-The raccoon tale is featured prominently
-The optical illusion trick is sparingly used
-Croshaw doesn't personally like the 3DS as a console

Is there anything I missed? You'll notice none of these address the actual gameplay, even though that was the main focus on the Rayman segment.
And why arent those points that he brought up valid criticisms? Okay the joke points I get but his main complaint is basicaly that the game is just more of the same but with less content and half-hearted...and on a system he thinks is stupid.

I have to wonder what compels me to aargue on the internet, no agreement will ever be reached or anything...probably boredom.
Which one of those is a criticism, exactly?

Saving Peach surely isn't, as anyone complaining about that has clearly missed the point and may as well complain that the goal of football (score the most points) never changes.

Merely mentioning that it has less content than another game isn't actually commenting on the amount of content this particular one has and thus is not an actual criticism (and would be invalid anyway, as it has 50+ unique stages, even before the special stage remixes).

Complaining about stars is flat wrong--the objective is to reach the end (obstacle course) and not star collection (missions).

Croshaw doesn't add any value qualifiers to the fact that the Tanooki suit is prolific; he merely states it, and thus is not a criticism. The same goes for the optical illusions--he only mentions that it is used three times, but never says if that is a good or bad thing.

Finally, saying that you don't like a platform isn't a criticism of a particular game on the platform.

So, again, when exactly did Croshaw speak to the merits (or lack thereof) of SM3DL? The closest he comes is growling when mentioning the game, vaguely indicating he's grown weary of the concept of Mario, not any specific issue with the game itself.
Not to say anything about the truthfulness of said criticisms, but in watching this review I learned a great deal as to why I might or might not like Rayman, whereas I learned very little regarding Mario.


...

And I don't think it's valid to criticize a game for having similar gameplay as others in its franchise. That's why it's a franchise. If I wanted Mario to be a different game, I'd get a different game, but it sells because people want more of the Mario game. This complaint isn't actually aimed at anything in particular, not even Yahtzee, it was just on my mind after responding to the above.
 

Nikolita

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The very first game I ever played was the original Rayman on the PS1. I was 9 when it was first released. I still have my copy, I love that game so much. :)

I have not, however, played Rayman Origins, nor do I think I will. I haven't liked any of the games that came after the original, and am instead waiting to see if Ubisoft will ever do a remake of the original.
 

ephesus64

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Good show, Yahtzee.

Not that the recent ZPs were bad, mind, it just seemed like a bit of the joy had gone out of them. Perhaps it was the Christmas season, or the bevy of shooter sequels, or perhaps I just made it up. Whatever the case, you seem to have enjoyed making that one, and I'm pleased by the result. Carry on.
 

Marik Bentusi

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Aug 20, 2010
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Did he actually criticize Rayman: Origins in any way?

Aw shucks, no release for PC or Gameboy: Color. Guess I'll be missing out on this one.

Dammit pirates, stop teasing me with your emulated PC versions. I know it's a service problem and that UbiSoft is an absolute dick to PC players, stop tempting me!
 

TimeLord

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I haven't played Rayman since the PS1 era when I thought it was quite good. Seems I'll have to pick up Origins for my 360 so see if the nostalgia floods back!
 

nobodysomebody

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There's also that 3D remake of Cave Story, and a downloadable game called Pushmo that I started playing a few days ago, it's pretty good.

To be honest, I wasn't entirely sold on the 3DS until I actually got one. I was pretty much anti-3DS once it was announced, but I got one, and now I love it.
 

Guilherme Zoldan

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Im not going to go on defending his review, its quite a waste of time actualy. All I am trying to say is that if you guys politely disagreed instead of getting defensive and whinning you'd sound a lot less like immature fanboys.
 

Motakikurushi

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Always been a fan of the Rayman franchise, apart from the Rabbids who are not part of the Rayman franchise and are rather fodder for shoddy Wii shovelware, and Rayman Origins I find to be a wonderful, great, good, fun, fantastic, nice game. I'd even go so far as to consider it the best retail release of 2011. Special mention goes to the underwater segments which are among the best water levels in video games and are so mesmerisingly beautiful that I would gladly replay them over and over again. It's just inspiring to see a game like this on a console again.
 

hermes

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Shadowstar38 said:
IncredibleKoosh said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Its weird how much Yahtzee praised Rayman while the reception to it from most other reviews were luke warm at best.
88/100 - Xbox 360
87/100 - PS3
92/100 - Wii

If someone threw water that lukewarm at me my face would melt off.
Point taken. I guess what I was trying to say was there didnt seem to be that much genuine excitement.
Perhaps the most tragic thing about Rayman is that it had very little marketing support from the publisher and was released to compete on the same week as Skyrim, AC: Revelations and MW3 (being better than at least two of those games, but no one would know)

Ubisoft practically sabotaged this game because it didn't know what to do with it. Which is a pity because its easily the best platformer to be released to a proper console in years.
 

hermes

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Mangue Surfer said:
Too bad that Rayman Origins devolve a lot from Rayman 3. I don't have nothing against nostalgia but, REALLY?!

Besides, the PS3 version looks like the Wii. C'mon Ubisoft!
I haven't realized the Wii was capable of crisp, HD graphics.

Or is it because it has beautifully hand-drawn 2D graphics? In which case, I believe you have no soul and have no business talking to you... be gone, foul beast!
 

PH3NOmenon

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I got a little confused here, but Rayman: Origins did get a Wii release as well, right? I seem to recall reading that somewhere, as I seem to recall a line that could be paraphrased to "there's no excuse for not buying R:O, as it's out on all consoles and it's great on every single one."

Not mentioning that simply because you hate the Wii seems a bit over the top, Yahtzee.
 

erbkaiser

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Jun 20, 2009
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I know Rayman Origins is quite good, but it's not worth a full 60 euros to me. I might pick it up once it drops to below half that. Also, Ubisoft is just about the last company I want to give money to, with their insane DRM schemes and their blatant extortionism (buy Rayman if you ever want to see your precious BGE2...).
 

matt87_50

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WHAT! you were born in the 80s how could you POSSIBLY suggest that OTHER decades were shit...

EDIT: I was also born in the 80s, though late enough not to experience it in person, as someone from Brisbane, and hence someone who would HAVE to endure relentless 80s music if they dared to turn their radio on during a weekend, I can't really imagine him defending them.
 

CapitalistPig

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Sovvolf said:
Ha, I remember the old Rayman on the playstation, could never get past the music level. That level was crazy hard, least for someone of my age, given that it came out of the playstation I'd have easily been under the age of ten when I got my hands on it.
Rayman was SOOOO long. I never beat it either. I was only a little sprout but I gave it my all. But by god just when I thought there cant be more there was more. Loved it though.
 

TheFederation

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itsmeyouidiot said:
TheFederation said:
moviebob is gonna have some words with yahtzee
I think people tend to exaggerate this "moviebob is a Nintendo fanboy" thing quite a bit. He may show a general preference for them, sure, but he's certainly not going to attack anyone for disagreeing. Hell, I believe he's gone on record saying that Yahtzee's reviews are great.

[citation needed]
what i mean is in one (or two) of moviebob's actual video's, he called Super Mario 3D Land something like "fun shrunk into a game", so he won't like that yahtzee doesn't like it
 

Sovvolf

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CapitalistPig said:
Rayman was SOOOO long. I never beat it either. I was only a little sprout but I gave it my all. But by god just when I thought there cant be more there was more. Loved it though.
Hahaha, indeed, it stretched on. Also loved it and played it frequently as a child. Kept trying and trying but just couldn't get there. Always felt sorry for the mosquito, liked how, after fighting it, Rayman just high fives it and they become pals. Shows you that you don't need to have games full of grit and swearing for them to be fun.

gyroscopeboy said:
I just replayed Rayman 2 on the N64 and GODDAMN! THAT GAME IS DIFFICULT!
It was one of those games that pushed the N64 graphics to the limit.
I was never aware the second game came out on the N64. I knew it came out on the PS2 (I own a copy) though not on the N64. Honestly, I was never really fond of the second one (if its the one I'm thinking of) I didn't like the transition to 3D.

3D platformers seldom work well. Games like Sonic, Mario and Rayman were built for the 2D plane and work best there. That said if wasn't too bad, this is the one with the pirates right?

PunkRex said:
I couldn't get past the arts and crafts level... and as an aspiraring artist that hit below the belt abit.
I think I remember the art one, think that may be the one I'm thinking of other than the music one. Think that maybe the one I got stuck on. Either way, it was a really hard game... Fun but hard. Think what really added to the difficulty was the lives system which I honestly think should eat a dick.

Live systems were pretty much built for arcades or artificial lengthening and the sooner they are rid of the better.
 

Jungy 365

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Sgt-Thrust said:
PLEASE EVERYONE! Escapist and Yatzee, withdraw all coverage and support from e3 this year unless they dtop supporting SOPA, watch this video to understand more.
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/stand-together-the-gaming-community-vs-sopa-and-pipa
DO THIS THING! DO IT NOW!
 

Mangue Surfer

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hermes200 said:
Mangue Surfer said:
Too bad that Rayman Origins devolve a lot from Rayman 3. I don't have nothing against nostalgia but, REALLY?!

Besides, the PS3 version looks like the Wii. C'mon Ubisoft!
I haven't realized the Wii was capable of crisp, HD graphics.

Or is it because it has beautifully hand-drawn 2D graphics? In which case, I believe you have no soul and have no business talking to you... be gone, foul beast!
No no no no, no. Same thing. Plug the Wii and PS3 on the same TV, play the game(s?) and come back here. worst, the Wii version is cheaper, WHY?