Zero Punctuation: Super Smash Bros. Brawl

Fedule

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Apr 23, 2008
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[yes, I registered to comment on this specifically]

As a diehard Nintendo fanboy (not the rabid kind, just seriously stuck-in-my ways), I will concede that Nintendo games tend to be things that I _grudgingly_ like. There are a few things I absolutely hate about Brawl (mostly to do with online, which I'm surprised Yahtzee didn't rip apart, actually), and yes, having to unlock the stuff that was so hyped up is a pain (especially since some of the unlockable stages are awesome). The fact that some of the additional rules (especially the random stage switch) need to be unlocked is a pain, too. The fact that you can't download a savefile for the game (because Brawl SPECIFICALLY prevents you from copying its savefile off the Wii) feels like a kick in the balls from Nintendo. I'm lucky enough to be able to play with a lot of people who are roughly as good as me, so being "that guy" isn't much of a problem. And the Great Maze can go fuck itself, seriously.

And yes, the inclusion of MOTHER 3 stuff feels like an even bigger kick in the balls.

All this said, once you:

-Unlock all characters and stages
-Unlock the Random Stage Switch, and disable New Pork City, Temple, 75m, Mario Bros, Hanenbow, and any other stages you hate
-Get a general grasp of the controls (which are roughly the same for every character)
-Find a group of people to play against, who also are vaguely familiar with the game
-MAYBE learn one or two characters in detail...

...the game will become an epic clusterfuck of awesome and win.

Another fact is that one player being better than another is going to happen in any game, and attempting to "balance" things is a no-win situation. Either the game will become a coin-flipping contest (which happens in Brawl with a button masher faces someone who doesn't know how to counter (which isn't difficult once you figure it out), or offer such stupid handicaps that it becomes a disadvantage to be winning at any point (Mario Kart). The only way around is to somehow make losing a game less of a disappointment, but that's somewhat dependant on the player and their attitude.

Most of all, though, I think it's a mistake to play Brawl with the intent of criticizing it. The replay value in Brawl has fully nothing to do with unlocking stuff and everything to do with playing multiplayer again and again and again because of how damn FUN it is.

(afterthought: I dream about how awesome Brawl would be if it kept it's Nintendo content but had the backend (unlockables, online, interface) developed, published and marketed by Microsoft or Sony.)

(Now I'm depressed.)
 

Turbowombat

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Apr 23, 2008
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mspencer82 said:
the fighters don't have enough difference between them to warrant ever using more than one, and the difficulty curve is non-existent for anyone old enough to hold the controller.

Super Smash Bros Melee was so easy that someone could play the game three weeks after having a stroke, with their right hand about 75% paralyzed, and still beat the story mode on the highest difficulty with no trouble.

If you think I'm exaggerating, *points to self* - case in point.
Oh god... the sound of millions of voices crying out in anguish and then suddenly silenced. I feel a great disturbance in the smash. Do you realize that the standard method of getting from point A to point B in tournament melee consisted of semicircle control stick while hitting jump and side dodge in quick succession in under 1/8 of a second rinse repeat (wavedashing). In order to go anywhere in tournaments a person needed to know the exact number of frames involved in every action and attack of their character and all the characters they face including the damage curve and priority based on which frame the attack connected and modified by frequency of use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdUeaC7M3oo

Just because you don't know how to do anything that wasn't mentioned in the user manual doesn't mean you have any ground to say the game has no depth. In fact the depth would be determined by how far beyond the user manual or casual player the games eccentricities extend.
 

Crushed

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Nov 22, 2007
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renard said:
lucas sucks and so do marth and jigglypuff)
it's full of clones (yes, I'm looking at the starfox trio)
lucario (mewtwo 2.0.), king dedede (slow and has the worst recovery attack ever), wolf (the faulty clone of fox)...
None of those things are true.

You could learn more at GAME TRADERS ROBINA.



Anyway, it's funny as usual, but it kinda got disrupted by two very... "odd" pieces of logic, right after the other. The first was when he pulled out the old "rehashed characters" complaint, then acts like obscure characters aren't good because... he doesn't know who they are? That's a bit contradictory, isn't it?



Oh, and that leads right into the second thing: "I guarantee more people would play [Mother 3] than Mario Kart."

...Uh, Yahtzee. I'm not sure if you know this. I'm horribly sorry to break your idealistic, optimistic bubble. But Mother is not a very popular series. One of Nintendo's poorest-performing franchises, relatively speaking. They've all had rather lukewarm sales at best. Earthbound (Mother 2) was a massive flop in America. Mother 3 *did* sell relatively well in Japan, around 550,000 copies in its whole lifetime. Japanese gamers were excited about a long-awaited new entry in a dead franchise, and the GBA was very popular. The highest-selling game in the whole series.

But Yahtzee. Mario Kart is an extremely popular franchise. Mario Kart Wii, in 3 days in Japan, sold 590,000 copies. More than any Mother game has ever sold in its entire life. In the UK, it's already sold more than any N64 or GameCube game ever sold there. Take every Wii game with the word "Mario" in the title (that includes Galaxy). Mario Kart Wii has sold more than those combined.

Mother 3, if released against a Mario Kart game, would be slaughtered, eviscerated, disemboweled, quartered, and its bloody head stuck upon a pike for all the world to see and fear.
 

Ugbugbug

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Mar 16, 2008
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Hahaha, best review so far.

I pretty much lost interest in playing to "that guy" in SSB. SSBM was the same game, and therefore I won't even bother with SSBB.

Unless Drunk.
Very drunk.

And playing with wimminz.
 

windfish

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Feb 13, 2008
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I really like Brawl, so I was prepared to get a little insulted, but I actually agree with most of Yahtzee's criticisms. I've been a fan of all 3 smash bros, but I was always annoyed by the single-player and the need to unlock things. Especially the need to unlock all stages in order to be able to customize random - because the stages are so dynamic, you're bound to have some that you down-right hate to play on, and it's nice to be able to turn them off the random seed.

Generally, single-players on fighting games are designed to make you "that guy". They're sort of a training run. It is REALLY annoying, though, that SSBB's is so damn long.

I would argue that none of the smash bros games are button-mashers, though. That's a really fast way to die, even against a computer.
 

Roto13

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Apr 23, 2008
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You know, the reason we're not getting Mother 3 is because fans of Mother 2 are either really late or all talk. Mother 2 sold really badly back in the day, like Nintendo was afraid of, even with tons of marketing and even including the official Player's Guide for free.
 

Uszi

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Feb 10, 2008
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Turbowombat said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdUeaC7M3oo

Just because you don't know how to do anything that wasn't mentioned in the user manual doesn't mean you have any ground to say the game has no depth. In fact the depth would be determined by how far beyond the user manual or casual player the games eccentricities extend.
... win.
 

Turbowombat

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Apr 23, 2008
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mspencer82 said:
The point is, if I consider SSB a shallow "fighting game" with my lack of skill, it must be pretty damn shallow.
Again wouldn't this be the opposite of true? If you play the first level of a Mario game and say it's too easy you have no grounding. Similarly if you play as far as the instruction manual and single player campaign extends (roughly 1% of the actual games mechanics) wouldn't you know too little about it to make any judgement at all. The amount of the game which is closed off to your limited play would denote exactly how deep it goes rather than how shallow.
 

Terramax

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Jan 11, 2008
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Well said Yahtzee. As much as I like Melee, I really cannot justify buying another update of Smash Bros., Super Mario, Mario Gold, Mario Kart, Mario Party, when I've already gone through at least 3 prequals.

It makes me feel like one of those yearly FIFA/ Evolution Soccer buyers.
 

Crushed

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Nov 22, 2007
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mspencer82 said:
Well, the game didn't interest me enough to get to the obsessive compulsive, play day and night, level of beyond the manual zen-ness that you've apparently achieved.
More than half an hour isn't "obsessive compulsive."
 

Crushed

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Nov 22, 2007
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mspencer82 said:
Well you hooting Smash Bros fans can't seem to get that I'm entitled to my own opinion....
mspencer82 said:
The point is, if I consider SSB a shallow "fighting game" with my lack of skill, it must be pretty damn shallow.

I think saying "it must be pretty damn shallow" is something you'd claim when you don't want other people to have an opinion.
 

Turbowombat

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mspencer82 said:
What can I say? With the Game Cube lacking all forms of online multiplayer and my friends not willing to touch the game with a ten foot pole I was forced to go with that 1% of shallow gameplay shit.

I love the "you just don't get it" argument that keeps popping up.

Attention Super Smash Bros fanboys: I DO NOT LIKE SMASH BROS, and nothing you can say can make me change my mind. Give it up.
See an objective truth based on your experience is much better than a rattling assertion based on your dissinterest. I find fanboys a sad sad thing despite being one. I commend people for honestly not liking it much like I'm happy whenever someone kicks the World of Warcrack habit. I just take offense when someone claims an arbitrary demerit against the game based solely on lack of experience. True dat on Nintendo sucking online.