Zero Punctuation: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Ddgafd]

Not only was the review funny, but the thread is even more of a riot! I guess the fanboys will never learn to ignore what others say if they like their game that much. Reminds me of something that Yahtzee said once, that thing about the niggling self-doubt at the back of your head. Was it in the SSBB hatemail review?

 

[Roboto]

Did escapist get hacked by some raging fanboy that deleted the video? File not found.

 

[Marik Bentusi]

I will never understand the belief men hold that helping a woman in some way automatically means he is entitled to have sex with her at some point.

I think he's joking (hope it at least), but if I had to take a guess it's because of the alpha leader principle. You know, be successful, rise in social hierarchy, become desirable through status. It's also very common fairy tale material to let the knight rescue the princess impressed by his noble heart and courage, and then they live happily ever after, so I guess that never leaves the mind either.

 

[Hyakunin Isshu]

This review seem so pointless.

He doesn't want to review WH40k or SC2, but he is willing to review another Zelda game?

 

[Quaidis]

Oh Yahtzee, how I love your random hatred of things in games, even games I adore and enjoy. The hilarity ensues! Have a pretty good holiday (of whichever religion you choose to follow) and enjoy your stout. Cheers!

 

[Jdb]

I think Skyward Sword is my last Zelda game until combat sees change. After 20 years, its simplicity is wearing my interest thin and I feel the only thing motion controls add is a delay before doing the usual "hit the attack button as fast as possible."

I would like more types of weapons to use in normal combat or a more acrobatic Link. If future Zelda titles have combat something like Secret of Mana or Terranigma I would definitely play them.

 

[Electrogecko]

I was looking forward to Yahtzee admitting that motion controls deserve more than the passive dismissal he's been giving them for the last 5 years, but I guess that's a bit too much to ask for.

I don't think the default Zelda defense is "each game is a beta for the next." I don't know any Zelda fan who would call any entry to the series a "beta." Zelda doesn't even need a defense. Calling any Zelda a rehash seems moronic when you compare the differences between each game to just about any other currently running franchise. It's even dumber when you consider that Zelda's been around about 3 times longer than most. Each one has a different set of mechanics, engine, setting, art style, item set, etc., but arguably the biggest difference between each one is the overall theme. If somebody told me that they played Majora's Mask, Windwaker, and Skyward Sword, and got a similar experience and emotion out of all of them, I'd tell them that they're only kidding their self.

OT: I didn't have any problems with the motion controls....none....at all....ever. I'm left to conclude that anyone who has trouble with them is either experiencing technical problems, uncoordinated, or a troll. Furthermore, the fights that he seems to be criticizing are what, in my opinion, made the combat in this game exceptional. I'd say it ranks up with Batman as one of my favorite combat systems of this generation. The complaints about the boss fights I'll interpret as a joke, because the bosses in SS are some of the best of the series and the fact that a couple of them break convention is nothing to criticize.

The note about text speed is amusing. Some people are complaining that there's no voice acting, and some are complaining that the text speed is too slow. The funny thing is, the text speed is already much faster than natural speaking, so nobody has a right to complain about both these things unless they plan on skipping 95% of the acting anyway. I do agree that there's way too much dialog in this game and that most of it is tedious and obvious.

I think that SS is to the Zelda series in the same way that Galaxy is to the Mario series. While it's arguable not a good thing for Zelda, both games streamlined their respective franchise and boiled it down to the basics. Mario is a straight up platformer, and I think SS is more of a straight up puzzle game than other Zelda's. What Skyward Sword lacked in explorable area, I feel it made up for in the density of puzzles and treasure in these areas. More so than in any other Zelda game, returning to an area in SS yields results, and the results are actually worthwhile, even if it is just a bunch of rupees, which is more than I can say about Windwaker. I think this is why I didn't mind so much that the areas in SS are so isolated. Besides, if you take the ocean away from Windwaker, your left with a much smaller area than SS has.

The complaints about the story are strange. Complaining about the story in any Zelda game is strange enough, but the points made here don't seem accurate. I think the story is more prevalent in SS than in most other Zelda games. The "copy and pasted" boss fight (which is so incredibly not copy and pasted and so incredibly not as simple as he made it seem) he mentioned and the other "generic" boss fight (which is so not generic...he even said how it isn't generic moments after he called it generic) are both proof of this.

It's amazing that Yahtzee can review a Zelda game for 5 minutes and not mention once anything to do with the level design or puzzles. The lack of leisure exploration is just that big of a deal? You liked Portal, didn't you Yahtzee?

 

[MrGseff]

I picked up skyward sword and still can't get past the intro town.

I've been a Zelda fan for years, but I'll be damned to say that this formula is getting waaaaaaay past its prime. I mean, Nintendo still doesn't even want to voice act these things.

So yeah, +1 to Yahtzee

Did you play Other M?! hell even I dont want voice actors in my Zelda games

 

[crimsonshrouds]

ahhh... the sound of nintendo fanboys getting angry at the truth. I was a zelda/nintendo fanboy and still consider majora's mask the best. I have gotten tired of nintendo abusing my love (aka holding earthbound out of reach along with other games) but unlike other fanboys ive moved on and will not give nintendo another shot until I see it bringing better games.

I would swear some of you fanboys are like a housewife explaining away black eyes and broken bones. Nintendo hit me several times and realized i needed to move on.

 

[Dunkerloop]

I like Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword, but god damn does Fi have the most annoying voice over anyone else in the series. I'm starting to take back everything I said about navi being annoying.

 

[Jennacide]

"Skyward Sword is the worst Zelda game ever".

Wow, we aren't just going to need a flameshield, we need a flamebunker!

Except that barring the CDI games, I think he's dead on. Skyward Sword is easily the least inspired of the series, even though the crazy Zelda fanboys will ignore that fact. Especially when he uses the examples of the newer Kirby games, which are constantly doing new and interesting things.

Really? Because the motion controls seem to be quite revolutionary.

In the Wii Twilight Princess, you just sorta flailed around. In this game, you're actually controlling the sword with your movements, and contrary to what Twatzee says, I actually find there to be no delay in Link's movement at all.

And really, why exactly is being "uninspired" such a bad thing? The Zelda formula is very nearly perfect, what else can you really do with it? I really couldn't care less if each new Zelda game is a "rehash" or whatever other bullshit phrase you spoiled dipshits use to describe a good game.

As long as there are new dungeons to explore, I'm happy, and you should be, too.

Ah ad hominem, always a good way to win an arguement. I guess being a "spoiled dipshit" I hold games to a higher standard of doing something interesting or fresh. Motion controls were 'revoluntionary' years ago. Using Wii Motion Plus to make your movements more exacting is not impressive when they are used for very gimmicky crap like monsters that can only be attacked from a certain directional swing. If you're going to have a gimmick, at least be an interesting one, like Minish Cap's size jumping, or Okami's brush strokes.

Honestly, calling the Zelda formula near perfect is absurd to me. No game has ever, or will ever, be perfect. And ending on the note of as long as their are dungeons to explore comes across comical to me, as Skyward Sword has the lowest number of unique areas and more backtracking than any game in the series, even Phantom Hourglass which was all about backtracking.

 

[Mr Somewhere]

Panning Skyward Sword while also panning the COD clones isn't hypocrisy. If anything, it's perfectly in line with his previous opinions. He isn't against the COD clones specifically because they have a limited color palette, or because they limit the number of weapons the player can carry. Remember that he actually gave a fairly positive review to the original Modern Warfare, which established the current trend in shooters in the first place. He pans the clones because they're clones, e.g. variations upon the same story and gameplay with a few superficial changes that don't alter the core experience.

Hence the Zelda criticism. The Zelda games, whatever you might consider their individual merits to be, haven't changed the basic formula to the story since Link to the Past, haven't made any innovations in core gameplay since Orcarina of Time, and haven't made any strides in overworld navigation since Wind Waker. The setting, art style, and individual challenges might be different, but the underlying themes are all the same. Yahtzee criticizes the COD clones because they only make what he sees as superficial alterations to the same formula; Yahtzee criticizes Zelda games because they only make what he sees as superficial alterations to the same formula.

Believe me, I've tried this and it doesn't work. Zelda games are different and special for their fanboys because "oh they change art style" and "oh, they make superficial differences to story". You see, from the fanboy's perspective, Cod is samey because, despite little tweaks, the formula is the same. By contrast, Zelda has the same formula, but is radically different because of little tweaks? Why? Because great god Ninty has endowed them with it.

I admire your sentiment to impose some logic on this forum, but it just won't work. Nintendo fanboys live in a world of their own, where their opinions can rebuild the world however they want to. You could say that a Zelda game is bad because gravity pulls it down and they would blindly shut their eyes and deny gravity. They aren't interested in other people's opinion.

I mentioned this before, but, here we go again. The series was growing stagnant, yes, but Skyward Sword is the game where they actually do things differently, the genuinely changed the pace and flow this time around. It really breaks up the monotony and the series will be all the better for it if they continue on this trend.

Please try playing the game before you add blind criticisms.

EDIT: Whoops, made a bit of a mess of that last quote, sorry.

 

[LilithSlave]

"Gee, maybe I was wrong about this Yahtzee fella I hate the guts of and find to be a bane of all gaming. Everyone seems to defend this intolerable person around here. Maybe he's come to his senses and sees The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword for the amazing game it really is and I'll gain some respect for him".

"Yahtzee proceeds to mutilate the greatest game of 2011 like an irredeemable..."

I feel sad for being a video gamer knowing that I share the fandom with people like Yahtzee. I'm never making the mistake of ever watching his videos or reading his materials again. It's an utter horrific waste of human life. I think I'd lose less brain cells watching Bill o' Reilly.

Not that such a video even deserves a rebuttal, but Skyward Sword is far from the "worst" Zelda game, Zelda games are not rehashed and anyone who says that makes their opinions look as valid as when someone pulls a Godwin's Law. Zelda games in general are amazing, not because of "blind fanboyism", but because they are. There are no problems with the motion control in this game, and all that seems to be Yahtzee's meaningless bias towards motion control.

 

[Mangue Surfer]

This review seem so pointless.

He doesn't want to review WH40k or SC2, but he is willing to review another Zelda game?

Starcraft 2 and Warhammer I presume?

I seem to recall him saying he wasn't interested in RTS as a genre and, as a result, didn't know what to say about them.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/7938-On-RTS-Games

Exactly the point. If he isn't into motion controls games, why review the climax of motion control games? His lack of interest make the review kinda unfunny, he just point the obvious. He even misses that one of the most "evil" boss is the Cookie Monster's cousin!

 

[Mr Somewhere]

Spoiler: SNIP

Panning Skyward Sword while also panning the COD clones isn't hypocrisy. If anything, it's perfectly in line with his previous opinions. He isn't against the COD clones specifically because they have a limited color palette, or because they limit the number of weapons the player can carry. Remember that he actually gave a fairly positive review to the original Modern Warfare, which established the current trend in shooters in the first place. He pans the clones because they're clones, e.g. variations upon the same story and gameplay with a few superficial changes that don't alter the core experience.

Hence the Zelda criticism. The Zelda games, whatever you might consider their individual merits to be, haven't changed the basic formula to the story since Link to the Past, haven't made any innovations in core gameplay since Orcarina of Time, and haven't made any strides in overworld navigation since Wind Waker. The setting, art style, and individual challenges might be different, but the underlying themes are all the same. Yahtzee criticizes the COD clones because they only make what he sees as superficial alterations to the same formula; Yahtzee criticizes Zelda games because they only make what he sees as superficial alterations to the same formula.

Believe me, I've tried this and it doesn't work. Zelda games are different and special for their fanboys because "oh they change art style" and "oh, they make superficial differences to story". You see, from the fanboy's perspective, Cod is samey because, despite little tweaks, the formula is the same. By contrast, Zelda has the same formula, but is radically different because of little tweaks? Why? Because great god Ninty has endowed them with it.

I admire your sentiment to impose some logic on this forum, but it just won't work. Nintendo fanboys live in a world of their own, where their opinions can rebuild the world however they want to. You could say that a Zelda game is bad because gravity pulls it down and they would blindly shut their eyes and deny gravity. They aren't interested in other people's opinion.

I mentioned this before, but, here we go again. The series was growing stagnant, yes, but Skyward Sword is the game where they actually do things differently, the genuinely changed the pace and flow this time around. It really breaks up the monotony and the series will be all the better for it if they continue on this trend.

Please try playing the game before you add blind criticisms.

EDIT: Whoops, made a bit of a mess of that last quote, sorry. Don't worry, I fixed it.

Well, here we go again into the land of Zelda fan-tasy.

Y'know what? Since this is your magical dream castle, why not we do it your way?

Spoiler: The Escapist fantasy where I pretend to go along with your fun little delusion.

So, you say, the New Zelda game is completely different? Wow! I can't believe they finally got round to innovating in a Zelda game. Some might say that the games were endlessly repeating in a circle-jerk, with a fanbase that would scream like tazered howler monkeys at the sign of a slightest change, (see Wind Waker and the uproar about a new cartoon style, or the more gritty look for TP) but I guess they can shut up now! Skyward sword had broken all tradition after 25 years of stagnation! What a leap! Who'd have thought that new art style, greater integration of motion controls and new dungeon layout would enact such revolutionary change! I for one am glad about this, and will happily renounce a life-time of scepticism, but first what happens now? I mean, I don't want to invest in this and get my heart broken if they're going to slip back into bad habits and start churning out the same old crap they did before this amazing, wonderful REVOLUTIONARY game!!!!

Spoiler: The more gritty, dramatic fantasy where I make an impassioned attack on your argument and you then use the *logic* of endlessly repeating your opinion to win the heated debate to the applause of all.

Erm....how exactly has it changed? The game kept the exact same story formula and, while characters may have changed, they're still all pretty much doing the exact same thing. Princess Zelda is acting exactly the same and being rescued by the exact same Link. The bad guy may be another person, but they still only exist to Challenge Link at the end of a dungeon (or in this case, dungeons) and isn't too different in character to good ol' Ganandorf (or however you spell it). Of course they added a new map, new level design and threw in a few new tools. That's the bare minimum, even for an expansion pack. Show me a sequel or expansion pack that doesn't do this and I'll show that you still left the old disk in the console. They really haven't changed much at all. You still have the ol' overworld-dungeon-boss layout. The fighting and puzzle-solving is still very similar. In no review of Skyward Sword will you see the words "complete re-jigging of gameplay and/or story". That has not happened. There haven't even been any major changes. It's still a very similar game.

Or you don't have to do either. You can just ignore my "ignorant" "bashing" of such a wonderful, innovative work of art and go back to the game you clearly enjoy. Just because I dare to hold the opinion that perhaps Skyward Sword isn't the greatest game ever or particularly innovative, doesn't mean I have to get in your way. If you enjoy something, nothing else, least of all someone else's petty view should matter. At least that's what I told my wife when she caught me with the au pair.

EDIT:

Exactly the point. If he isn't into motion controls games, why review the climax of motion control games? His lack of interest make the review kinda unfunny, he just point the obvious. He even misses that one of the most "evil" boss is the Cookie Monster's cousin!

Erm....because he feels he is qualified to talk about motion controls, because he understands controls, having used them in all different forms for years? (Unlike RTS games, which he has never been able to gain any kind of understanding of.)

And because some of what he says doesn't relate to motion controls?

Or you could just ignore him if you don't like him. If he's "unqualified", like you say, to judge motion controls, why bother listening to him? I don't listen to my grandma on how to fix my new computer, so if you think someone really can't give you useful information, why bother even hearing what they have to say?

I don't mind your opinion. But I find that most of the people comparing it to COD and the like have not played it. Have you played the game?
The new boss is quite different to Ganondorf, and he actually offers a rather clever parrallel to another character in the game, I won't go into it because I don't want to spoil it. The flow genuinely adds something to the game. Every new moment in the overworld adds a new challenge, you'll see something new each time the game brings you there. Items are no longer gimmicks but are explored through out the game. The overworld actually has a flavour akin to the original. There's a constant challenge. Everything is a puzzle, even down to the combat.
It has the bones of the Zelda formula, yes but it is a Zelda game, there's nothing wrong with that. But comparing it to an expansion pack is a total joke. It develops the series and that's what the Zelda games needed.

Also "Well, here we go again into the land of Zelda fan-tasy.

Y'know what? Since this is your magical dream castle, why not we do it your way?"

Try not to be so painfully arrogant. Don't judge somebody you don't even know. I'm not a Zelda fan, I'm not a Nintendo fan, I'm a fan of good games. As far as I'm concerned Skyward Sword was amongst the best this year.