Zero Punctuation: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Something Amyss]

"Yahtzee proceeds to mutilate the greatest game of 2011 like an irredeemable..."

That's a credibility RTZ right there.

I feel sad for being a video gamer knowing that I share the fandom with people like Yahtzee.

Yeah, how dare he not like what you like. The nerve.

I'm never making the mistake of ever watching his videos or reading his materials again. It's an utter horrific waste of human life. I think I'd lose less brain cells watching Bill o' Reilly.

And yet, it's worth attacking him. That just seems odd to me.

but Skyward Sword is far from the "worst" Zelda game,

How dare someone disagree with you....

Zelda games are not rehashed and anyone who says that makes their opinions look as valid as when someone pulls a Godwin's Law.

Just an FYI, using Godwin's Law that way is generally frowned upon for the same reason as use of Nazis themselves. Not saying "Nazi" or "Hitler" directly doesn't make you any less culpable.

However, I like the flat "No they're not rehashed, and anyone who says otherwise is a...." argument. Even if you dislike Yahtzee's conclusion, is half-assed justification as to why the games are retreads was better than none. Which is exactly what you gave.

Zelda games in general are amazing, not because of "blind fanboyism", but because they are.

"they're amazing, they just are" is not a solid argument. It's kind of fanboyish. In fact, this whole tirade against Yahtzee is pretty fanboyish. Histrionics like "a waste of life!" Don't help.

There are no problems with the motion control in this game, and all that seems to be Yahtzee's meaningless bias towards motion control.

so they magically fixed the lag problem inherent to the Wiimote? Awesome!

Though at least you didn't go to "you didn't like the game because you suck at it!" I'm on the fence about "YOU ARE BIAS!" arguments, because they're kind of silly, but you didn't pick the worst possible one.

In all, I'm glad you didn't feel that this review deserved a rebuttal, because you didn't give one.

Exactly the point. If he isn't into motion controls games, why review the climax of motion control games?

I take issue with the concept of this being the "climax" of motion control games (with next gen incorporating it even more heavily, that would be "climaxing" waaaaay too soon), but mostly I just wanted to point out that motion control games aren't really a genre. As such, it's a lot easier to completely disregard "RTS" than "motion control."

Ironically, if he didn't review this, there would be thousands of complaints from the same people who hate the review badgering him for it. It's this weird thing. It's like they really do think that an overly critical, acerbic reviewer will break formula if he can just play , and he'll love it as much as they do. Further, it's like they need Yahtzee's approval to validate their love.

I have no real sympathy for game critics being asked to criticise games, but I so seriously have to wonder what goes on in the heads of someone who asks Ben freakin' Croshaw to do a review and then flips out that it's negative. Or even the people who seem suprrised that he took the piss out of a Nintendo/motion control/zelda/whatever title.

I think, however, the simplest answer to why he reviews these games is they will amuse people, they will attract a lot of views, and they will get a lot of responses. I don't think it matters too much as to "why," since he'll likely do more Nintendo games in the future regardless. But there's the main answer.

I wonder if people would get as hysterical for Starcraft 2 being ripped to shreds.

 

[stinkyrobot]

Stop harassing me troll. Go back to 4chan until it's less painfully obvious that you are just trying to make people rage. And next time, instead of just blurting out racism, I suggest you accuse me of genocide and child rape.

Explain to me how I am trolling. I simply pointed out that you responded to a previous post, one that provided a strong rebuttal that held up logically, by dismissing it as "anger issues." How is that trolling?

OK seriously this is just sad now. Once you are caught at trolling it stops being funny. At least, it stops being funny if you have any taste for comedy. I can see you are new to trolling and you seem really lost. Once you've been caught out it's a faux-pas to keep on pretending. Also, I know trolls like to spark anger with racist accusations but you have to have at least SOME grounding or else you just sound like you are insane. Once you are labelled as "insane" nobody is going to take you seriously so no one is going to fall for your trolling because essentially the whole point of trolling is that you get someone to waste their time being angry at a persona you have created. So let's break it down, three elements:
1)Time wasting
2)Anger
3)Persona
If any of these three are lost the trolling has ended. Granted, I may be wasting time, but I am far from angry and I know you are joshing with me. That's two different accounts of trolling having terminated. So I dunno. Nice try. Better luck next time. Rome wasn't built in one day. Whatever. Peace out.

How was he being racist? And if he is trolling all the time you waste replying to him means he's being susses full.

 

[Darmani]

BiH-Kira, Zelda fan here, and I can get behind the annoyances at the constant point docking for "same/repetitious game" that Skyrim and any Shooter that's of the "right" (read popular, well played same enough so I don't have to relearn anything) franchise is nigh immune to but everyone feels the need to remind this about Zelda and drop whole categories or hold against the whole endeavor.

I WILL give Yatzhee SOME credit. He's put off by the way they represented the overworld and your interaction with it. *I* am not looking forward to the designated questing areas, it feels fakey. He explained what he means by formula unchanged. Not only is Zelda a princess in need of rescue she's in need of rescue by the same 3, then secondary set of dungeon delvings that has been a part not just of the repeating motiffs of the series BUT the structure and layout and formula as well even elemental layout. I think that's a bit harsh but it has been five games for him so I'm willing to let him have his opinion with the context, irrelevant though it be (this is like hating CoD for being a military porn game. I mean sure but that's not THAT relevant in judging the games merits and intent and technical quality)

I like 3/7 Zelda formula but the comparison to Okami is that while effectively doing the same thing they change the emphasis. There you banish evil and interact with and learn and affect various overworlds, dungeons are often temporary and banished. Instead of making an often superfluous low exploration setting around which you search for dungeons which are important the overworld is important and the dungeons integrated in different ways, with a different aesthetic. Effectively both Zelda and Skyrim handle the medieval fantasy thing. One is plainly more geared to adults as to all ages and one Definitely has more content, customization, and points of interaction. Add in the obscene Dark Souls or the even just as similar God of War and other franchises and you can see I get elements of the Zelda experience in an innovative new light HERE and HOW. Pity he barely works with any of that. He comes down on the game pretty hard for its fans and its franchise.

Really IGNORE control complaints. Its hard, you can only find out for yourself but.. well you have to. Some people just won't accept the set up so you have to personally find out for yourself if it works. I think even Red Steel 1 is enjoyable but the controls are exceptionally difficult and arcane, requiring constant review and practice.

That said on opinions being valid... how about this, there are informed, accurate, well reasoned statements of perception, likes, dislikes, and understanding, even when reflecting personal biases. I think the Escapist review leaned a little too nice (the reviewer would mention more problems in a follow up podcast)

I'd have no problem with Zelda: Skyward Sword geting an 8 or even a 7. If you don't like the formula this game is likely not the one to change your mind and as a longstanding franchise of some prominence it will be weighed on less of indifference or inexperience but actual dislike.

Any complaints about the gameplay being bad raise an eyebrow. I'm seriously starting to wonder if Yatzhee's rig to his Wii has too much interference or if he has palsy or a twitch, as actually new dexterous skill is needed to be learned for the game, much like say a fighting game, its possible he's missing it. Gameplay goals are superb, its just a technical feel confirmation question though be damned careful, you actually twitch and waver your arms more than you think you do unless you've trained not to.
That said I know when some complaints are bullshit and the "controls not working and interrupting the experience" is one of them with Skyward Sword. He blows nitpicks and preferences out of proportion into this review as technical failings and doesn't get into other technical pieces. Heck a common complaint is the long tutorial section that isn't mentioned and judging from statements he beat the game. Its just he says he feels it hasn't grown or truly changed (I was bracing for some mockery of slow adoption of other games schticks, minigames, something that goes unmentioned as well)
It just feels invalid because traits are mentioned only in terms to complain about them. Compare even his mario reviews. tons and tons and TONS of mockey for the retrograde stylings, creativity and silliness and familiarity and he still compliments the gameplay, situations, and even notes how emotionally effecting "the expansion pack" is. Complaints, yeah, but fair ones that also dish out compliments and other stuff. SMG2 was especially silly because, as he pointed out, it was basically more of Galaxy 1 and he complimented and was amuzed by Galaxy 1 and included compliments of Galaxy2, notes of interest in NSMBWii and particularly amused by Paper mario and Bowser's inside story. He came to adore Just Casue 2 and I personally feel that was amongst his lamest reviews going for not as funny racialy jokes and PC nerd nitpicking of the physics. I couldn't get through the builshit to decent view of the game he LOVED.
Thats what I mean by invalid opinion. Score aside SUSAN ARENDT's skyward sword review is much more on the ball. Explaining what the game does, why it entertains, and the frustrations with old elements and shock at the difficulty

 

[I forgot]

whoopee, another ZP of yahtzee making half-assed "criticism", what a surprise. No wonder I barely watch these anymore. I don't even have to play this game to know why this review is crappy. I bet the next extra punctuation is how he'll justify saying wind waker is better (since Wind Waker is actually one of the worst zelda games).

 

[CopperBoom]

I loved this game!
I think it is my favourite of the year.
It is probably the best mix of context, challenge & gratification from everything I have played recently.

 

[Evil Smurf]

myself I love the game, but Twilight Princess was better I admit. The fact I got it for $43 helps too

 

[Evil Smurf]

"Gee, maybe I was wrong about this Yahtzee fella I hate the guts of and find to be a bane of all gaming. Everyone seems to defend this intolerable person around here. Maybe he's come to his senses and sees The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword for the amazing game it really is and I'll gain some respect for him".

"Yahtzee proceeds to mutilate the greatest game of 2011 like an irredeemable..."

I feel sad for being a video gamer knowing that I share the fandom with people like Yahtzee. I'm never making the mistake of ever watching his videos or reading his materials again. It's an utter horrific waste of human life. I think I'd lose less brain cells watching Bill o' Reilly.

Not that such a video even deserves a rebuttal, but Skyward Sword is far from the "worst" Zelda game, Zelda games are not rehashed and anyone who says that makes their opinions look as valid as when someone pulls a Godwin's Law. Zelda games in general are amazing, not because of "blind fanboyism", but because they are. There are no problems with the motion control in this game, and all that seems to be Yahtzee's meaningless bias towards motion control.

hey man, Yatzee was not attacking you. Don't attack him, or anyone because being a jerk is not on.
too far man. (tut, tut)

 

[Mr Somewhere]

I don't mind your opinion. But I find that most of the people comparing it to COD and the like have not played it. Have you played the game?
The new boss is quite different to Ganondorf, and he actually offers a rather clever parrallel to another character in the game, I won't go into it because I don't want to spoil it. The flow genuinely adds something to the game. Every new moment in the overworld adds a new challenge, you'll see something new each time the game brings you there. Items are no longer gimmicks but are explored through out the game. The overworld actually has a flavour akin to the original. There's a constant challenge. Everything is a puzzle, even down to the combat.
It has the bones of the Zelda formula, yes but it is a Zelda game, there's nothing wrong with that. But comparing it to an expansion pack is a total joke. It develops the series and that's what the Zelda games needed.

Also "Well, here we go again into the land of Zelda fan-tasy.

Y'know what? Since this is your magical dream castle, why not we do it your way?"

Try not to be so painfully arrogant. Don't judge somebody you don't even know. I'm not a Zelda fan, I'm not a Nintendo fan, I'm a fan of good games. As far as I'm concerned Skyward Sword was amongst the best this year.

Well, speaking of opinions, I don't mind yours either. My "arrogance" as you call it, is my irritation that you keep insisting that those who dislike Skyward Sword are "wrong" solely on your opinion. By all means, enjoy it, but please recognize that you can't enforce your opinion on anyone.

I don't mind people not liking it. But when people criticise it for being a rehash, that does annoy me. It isn't it honestly changes things up and does a good job at it too. The fact that a lot of critiques of the game gleefully ignore this is rather irksome.

 

[bificommander]

I enjoyed Skyward Sword quite a bit, but I'll concede a lot of Yathzee's points. Storywise, it feels incredibly padded. Oh sure, gameplay wise it remains varied enough but the in-universe explanations for why I had to go visit the three areas for a third time was pretty flimsy. And two of those three areas were kinda meh, unoriginal in aesthetic and close to zero exploration on the narrow paths. Only the desert was a bit more open and felt somewhat inspired, with the timeshift stones giving a nice "'Look upon my works ye mighty and despair!' Nothing besides remains." feel to the place.

I'm kinda suprised he didn't mention the resource gathering system, i.e. my least favourite part of the game. It feels lazy (why make a small puzzle to find the upgraded item when you can have the player search for a few random drops instead?), and required annoying backtracking.

I liked the new Zelda a lot more than in Twilight Princess, a.k.a. The Legend of Midna. Seriously, Zelda was a null character there who only showed up for about 10 minutes worth of gametime. And Midna was way cooler than the lovechild of Na-vi and GLaDOS.

Oh, and I really need to get this nitpick of my chest: Previous Zelda games (I played from Ocarina of Time upwards) also had towns that seemed too small for a viable population. But at least the capital tended to use some tricks to make it look bigger than the programmers gave you areas to walk in, there was more than one population center in the world and more importantly it was at least possible that there was some contact between those areas and some unseen population centers further in the world. Even in Wind Waker, that was possible. But here? The entire inhabited world for centuries has been a tiny floating town 200 feet across. It's said that this was the ONLY area the goddess lifted up. So the entire population of the known world has been less than 30 people. There is no possibility that there is any more to this island. You can circle-strafe the tiny island with your bird, it's really all there is. No hidden houses. Oh yeah, one hidden house, of that Demon guy. HOW THE FUCK DID NO-ONE BEFORE LINK FIND HIM? You can drop of the catwalk towards his house, and the patroling knights will rescue you and put you back on the catwalk not 10 feet away from the entrance to his house. Does no-one question what that house is doing there? Hell, the catwalk and house consist of so many wooden planks it should've taken a generation's worth of trees on that puny little island to build it. How did no-one notice it being build? Yes, not a big gameplay issue, but it bugged the hell out of me.

 

[ServebotFrank]

Hey remember years ago when Yahtzee mentioned having a Star Wars lightsaber game with near full control? Well this is the closest it's got and criticizes it for being what it is.

As for Zelda essentially being Ocarina of Time rehashed throughout I must concede there. I will agree that Ocarina of Time was about a boy who has to save the world in three days by shrinking to smaller sizes, while exploring a giant sea all the while alternating between the dark world and the light world by transforming into a wolf and a bunny with the help of a fairy and three other boys to take down a pig/demon.

 

[Something Amyss]

Hey remember years ago when Yahtzee mentioned having a Star Wars lightsaber game with near full control? Well this is the closest it's got and criticizes it for being what it is.

"The closest it's got" doesn't mean "good enough."

 

[zefiris]

I don't even understand why the fanboys are so angry about Yahtzee's review. All the things he mentioned are true and perfectly valid complaints.

How is this "hating the game" and treating it unfairly? Pointing out facts is unfair now? Really?

Skyward Sword isn't perfect. No game is. (No, Skyrim isn't, either) I don't even understand why some of you people are so incensed that people dare to dislike what you like. My GOTY is Atelier Totori, because for one a girl I could relate to was the heroine, without making her an attachment to some guy(gasp, she's best shipped with a girl, teh horrors!), and I found the story and characters genuinely compelling. Most people didn't like that game. Some of their criticism is perfectly valid, as well. Why would I attack them for it? Their dislike for the game doesn't make me like the game less.

What is wrong with Nintendo fans, why do they pretend there is this huuuge percieved persecution against them? It doesn't exist.

And before you whine about "baww nintendo hater baww" - my GOTY of last year (yes, I bought it in february) was, gasp, a Wii game. Muramasa: Demon blade.

Grow up. Yahtzee criticizing your precious Zelda is not a problem. It's a good thing.

 

[Something Amyss]

Grow up. Yahtzee criticizing your precious Zelda is not a problem. It's a good thing.

You know, I'll probably get pegged as a fanboy despite numerous other posts that have demonstrated otherwise, but Yahtzee criticising games is not really a good thing. Yahtzee, a humourous critic whose shtick is to rip into games mercilessly, is not going to change anything. It's not going to wake people up, create differences in later games, or even raise an eyebrow to the publishers.

It's not good, nor is it really bad, either. It just is.

Besides, it's not just Nintendo fans who have this persecution complex. It's basically every video game fandom who starts claiming someone is "TEH BIAS!" And a "hater" when their game of choice gets bashed. Or even not praised enough.

 

[ThePurpleStuff]

I enjoy this game, even though you basically said everything I felt about it too, I was willing to look past the motion control, which I despise the most. I kept saying throughout the whole game that I could be doing all of this with a controller, but nintendo made this tech. they gotta use it somehow, even if it does feel forced. A LOT, a lot of the game does indeed feel like immense padding, especially with the dialog speed, I don't enjoy thinking that way, but I don't feel like it once I actually start to play again. The combat will at times not work and be just fine, I'm left handed even though link is right handed so it can be a problem especially with a ton of monsters around you. I just gotta keep doing spin attacks and flinging the remote around to kill things, but ever since I got more damage items I avoid sword combat as much as possible. (I will admit, I liked twilight princess's bomb arrows, they would've been very helpful in this game.)

The time the motion control REALLY gets annoying is in the swimming mechanics, its almost impossible to do a 180 turn especially in a narrow space, I wish this control stick in my hand wasn't so ignored, nintendo! Okay enough about the control, I'm still having fun despite the problems.

Some of the characters in the game are at times, written to be assholes, I kept thinking the whole game why everyone was being such a jerk when I was trying to save the damn world or do chores for them. I liked though that most of the sidequests were just with the more kinder characters of the game and those who were jerks to you (Colin, *ahem*) get punished. Overall all the people in skyloft I couldn't help but enjoy talking to, the only other game that made me care about the random npcs so much was Majora's Mask.

Overall, this game is a good zelda game and the ending I was satisfied with it, this was a worthy 25th anniversary for the series, a lot better than mario's. It's not my favorite of the series but it is not the worst zelda I've ever played, Phantom Hourglass and Zelda II are neck and neck with each other to me.

 

[TheWizardWhoDunIt]

Until I get my hands on this I'm reserving judgment on the worst Zelda game ever, because few things have made me reconsider videogames--and my life by way of relation--more than Spirit Tracks. If this is really worse than that game I will bottle my tears and send them to you because I have no need for them; my sadness cannot be expressed through mere water droplets.

Seriously, worst ever?

Please, let this be like Demon's Souls.

 

[Mangue Surfer]

why bother listening to him?

Because I like Zero Punctuation. Look to the Assassins Creed Revelation review. Since Yahtzee really is into this type of game he can really dig into the flaws and made a genuine funny episode. Now look to this; ?Is old, is green, have motion control.? Where in the galaxy this is funny?! Better if he had reviewed Trine 2 or Serious Sam.