Zero Punctuation: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Sean951]

I'd like to think Nintendo secretly pays all their fanatics to jump into action anytime someone criticizes Nintendo in some fashion on the internet, but the reality is just more depressing.

My sentiments exactly. This whole thread just about proves that while Nintendo fanboys can dish it out, they sure can't take it. Depressing, really. If I had a nickel every time I saw someone whinge about "Modern Warfare 2.5" I'd be very rich indeed, yet the moment someone levels the same accusation another franchise that settles with a few new graphical tweaks, new weapons (and maybe not even that), and new maps (that happens to be produced by Nintendo) they fly into a frothing rage.

Except Zelda wrote a whole new story and created many puzzles to go along with the new items, as well as creating a new final boss as well as new dungeon bosses. Oh, and introduced a play style focused completely around the Wii-mote instead of tacking it on like an afterthought. Then you have MW which just updated maps... maybe tweaked some stats on the guns finished out the single player I guess, because that's totally why people play it...

 

[Draconalis]

And why does "using the tools that are being created and perfected with technology every day to cross new frontiers in gaming and interactivity" not include Skyward Sword's revolutionary motion-control scheme?

No force feedback, (opposing force) makes motion controls stupid in my opinion. The best example I've heard is the one where you swing your sword, and your opponent blocks (Or hell... doesn't and your weapon hits their body), then your, the player's, arm is in a different place than the avatar's arm. How can something add immersion when shit like that happens?

I've never played any of these games, so I'm not really one to judge... so this is more a legitimate question, than a rhetorical one.

How is the motion control in this game any different from No More Heros, or that one Star Wars game where you waggled your stick like a sword?

Because if there is no difference other than "It's been refined to not suck as much" It's not "revolutionary motion-control".

But again... I don't play Wii games. What do I know?

As for the Zelda series as a whole... I've been disappointing with the Zelda series since I every game I've played passed OoT. Twilight Princess was a huge disappointment in my book.

 

[itsmeyouidiot]

Whoever is defending this game probably hasn't actually played it. I had to concur with nearly everything Yahtzee said. The motion controls in particular were some of the worst I've had to endure ever. I appreciate it may not take the title for "least original game ever" but it certainly isn't escaping a "pretty unoriginal" stamp. They could have given up making these bloody games. It was forgivable the first few times but now it's just ridiculous.

Snip

I don't exactly know what you are trying to prove. Pointing out that Skyward Sword is more original than "Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Saints Row 3, Dead Rising 2/Off the Record, Arkham City, Gears of War 3, Uncharted 3, and even Skyrim." is just saying it's the warmest block of ice. All those games have repeatedly been called out on the fact that they are just copies of the last game in the series. That does not redeem this game from being a reskinned version of a game I played 12 years ago.

Wow. They changed ALL of the story. AND they changed 3 whole items from the ORIGINAL 1998 game. Fuck. That is perhaps a bit too much innovation.

You obviously haven't played Skyward Sword. If anything, you have played Twilight Princess and you think you played SS. But I doubt you even have a Wii. You probably just jumped on the bandwagon and hate everything that is even a bit Nintendo related.

Here is a video of those "worst" motion controls ever made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=p_aGjL1bwN0

Riiiiiiiiiiight. They don't work at all... wait what? They work almost perfectly? Hmmmm... the video is probably fake. It must me. There is no other explanation. Gamespot said so. But lets ignore the fact that they admitted being wrong and that the controls work better than any other motion control. Ignore the fact that the player doesn't know to move his arms because he lost all body coordination during playing CoD.

You can save your pretty unoriginal stamp for every other game that came out this year but didn't get ANY hate at all.


Let me quote you

All those games have repeatedly been called out on the fact that they are just copies of the last game in the series.

Really? Skyrim got called out for being a copy of the last game in the series? I'm not sure, but I think i read somewhere that it got the GotY award from almost every site who gives those awards. Ohh poor Skyrim. Everyone hates it for being the same as Arena just bigger. They hate it so much that that they can't stop talking how awesome awful the game is. Right?

Assassins Creed got also some rewards... hmmm... funny.
Uncharted 3... yeah... that game that Yahtzee said even tho it has many flaws, he still likes it. Lets ignore for a second that it's basically Uncharted 2 without any changes beside the terrain. That Uncharted 2 is basically Uncharted 1 which is a Prince of Persia clone with guns to make the kids in puberty think they are badass.

Face it, no other game and company is hated as Zelda and Nintendo. For no obvious reason.

A game that has everything new but keeps the nice, fuzzy, warm, well-known feeling is the same as the previous, while a game that is dumbed down with every sequel and is just bigger gets the GOTY.

What sites hate Nintendo?

Without checking I'd guess that nearly all their big 1st party releases score 85+ on Metacritic.

Even Yahtzee doesn't hate them. At least no more than anything else. In fact he openly LIKES Mario Galaxy.

As for saying that he was moaning about the motion controller 4 years ago, and that he shouldn't do it now as it's getting old... Maybe he STILL thinks that it's a badly implemented control scheme?

Well, if you look at other games that get a 9 or higher from the same site, you will notice that they aren't really fair. CoD MW 3 got a 8.5 from Gamespot while Skyward Sword got a 7.5.

Main flaws of Skyward Sword - NOTHING innovative and bad controls (but they admitted later that they where wrong and still kept the lower score for bad controls, fuck logic).
Positive about CoD MW 3 - guess what, they say it's fucking innovative. FUCKING CALL OF DUTY IS INNOVATIVE!!!!

A game that brought motion controls to a whole new level is not innovative while a reskined CoD is? Would you say that that is fair? That it was reasonable giving a lower score to Skyward Sword than to CoD? Gears of War 3? Uncharted 3?

I will not talk about Skyrim this time and it's score because I fucking love the game and I'm playing it now. But the other games that are praised so much don't deserve nothing above a 6 (which is still a above average game since 5 is the average)

Also Yahtzee liking just one Nintendo game doesn't prove him wrong. What was the last time that he said something positive about Nintendo? When the Wii was released? When the 3DS was released? When the DS was released (when everyone including Nintendo thought it's going to be a flop)?

He bitches how there is no improvement in games, how no one is doing anything to improve the gaming experience, to bring it on a whole new level. But when Nintendo releases something new that CAN bring the gaming experience on a whole new level, than he's a lazy ass hypocrite who can't move his arm for more than 20 seconds without needing to go to a clinic.

And look at the youtube video I posted. Tell me if that looks like a badly implemented control scheme.

I understand not liking the game, but people HATE it without even playing it. They HATE it for things that aren't true. They HATE it simply because it's a Nintendo game and they want to be cool for hating a game "for children".

I could argue with you but instead I'm just going to laugh and say that you have serious anger issues. A lot of people love Nintendo. Yahtzee loves Mario Galaxy. I hated the controls in SS. Newsflash: most gamers don't enjoy motion controls because the most immersive experience for gamers comes from instant feedback with minimum movements, not swatting at thin air. Gamers realized Virtual Reality technology was pretty lame when the Powerglove was invented. Nintendo is still making more money than any other console. Now go away and stop acting like a psychopath on the Internet. It isn't even threatening because we're countries apart.

I fail to see how responding to your irrational hatred with a rebuttal that completely and utterly proves you wrong is "anger issues."

And most gamers hat motion controls because they're afraid of anything new. They talk all the time about "innovation," but when something comes along that actually manages to change the status quo, they throw a hissy fit because it's not "real gaming." It's pure hypocrisy.

 

[Grabbin Keelz]

I played the game a few days ago and everything ZP said was the problems I had with the game, even the anime Zelda thing. I even went back and played a few other Zelda games just to remind myself that it's a good series. This review is really the only way to express how dissapointed I am in this game.

It also doesn't help that I was forced to watch an instructional video on how to put the Wii motion plus into the controller.

 

[Nathan Allison]

Yahtzee Croshaw, during the slow release this Christmas season, do a review of Majora's Mask.

 

[Sean951]

Yahtzee Croshaw, during the slow release this Christmas season, do a review of Majora's Mask.

I beg him not to. He would point out all the flaws, hate the mask mini game and so never get the Fierce Deity Mask, and call the game crap. He would also chide Nintendo for reusing the skins from OoT and point out that it is exactly like that game in almost every way, except where it isn't, which also sucks.

 

[itsmeyouidiot]

-snip-

I could argue with you but instead I'm just going to laugh and say that you have serious anger issues. A lot of people love Nintendo. Yahtzee loves Mario Galaxy. I hated the controls in SS. Newsflash: most gamers don't enjoy motion controls because the most immersive experience for gamers comes from instant feedback with minimum movements, not swatting at thin air. Gamers realized Virtual Reality technology was pretty lame when the Powerglove was invented. Nintendo is still making more money than any other console. Now go away and stop acting like a psychopath on the Internet. It isn't even threatening because we're countries apart.

I fail to see how responding to your irrational hatred with a rebuttal that completely and utterly proves you wrong is "anger issues."

And most gamers hat motion controls because they're afraid of anything new. They talk all the time about "innovation," but when something comes along that actually manages to change the status quo, they throw a hissy fit because it's not "real gaming." It's pure hypocrisy.

Stop harassing me troll. Go back to 4chan until it's less painfully obvious that you are just trying to make people rage. And next time, instead of just blurting out racism, I suggest you accuse me of genocide and child rape.

Explain to me how I am trolling. I simply pointed out that you responded to a previous post, one that provided a strong rebuttal that held up logically, by dismissing it as "anger issues." How is that trolling?

 

[Ariseishirou]

I'd like to think Nintendo secretly pays all their fanatics to jump into action anytime someone criticizes Nintendo in some fashion on the internet, but the reality is just more depressing.

My sentiments exactly. This whole thread just about proves that while Nintendo fanboys can dish it out, they sure can't take it. Depressing, really. If I had a nickel every time I saw someone whinge about "Modern Warfare 2.5" I'd be very rich indeed, yet the moment someone levels the same accusation another franchise that settles with a few new graphical tweaks, new weapons (and maybe not even that), and new maps (that happens to be produced by Nintendo) they fly into a frothing rage.

Except Zelda wrote a whole new story and created many puzzles to go along with the new items, as well as creating a new final boss as well as new dungeon bosses. Oh, and introduced a play style focused completely around the Wii-mote instead of tacking it on like an afterthought. Then you have MW which just updated maps... maybe tweaked some stats on the guns finished out the single player I guess, because that's totally why people play it...

New story? New puzzles? New items? New final boss?

Yep, MW3 had all of those too. New single player campaign with 15 all new levels, plus 32 spec ops maps between survival (an all-new game mode) and missions, new weapons, new perks, new streaks, and a graphical upgrade. Not to mention everything that comes with Elite.

So, yeah... it's precisely as innovative as the new Zelda at this point. Heck, you could make a strong argument for it being more innovative. I'm not getting buttmad about the "derp herp MW2.5 (ad nauseum)" thing - if that's your opinion you're welcome to it, but it's pretty hypocritical, really - so why are you flipping out when someone says the same of Zelda?

 

[Ariseishirou]

I played the game a few days ago and everything ZP said was the problems I had with the game, even the anime Zelda thing. I even went back and played a few other Zelda games just to remind myself that it's a good series. This review is really the only way to express how dissapointed I am in this game.

You must be brain-damaged if you think that anything Yahtzee said in the review is actually true.

Yes, I recognize that people have different opinions. Yes, I know that people might not always like the things I like, but this is Zelda, Goddammit.

YOU. DO. NOT. FUCKING. DISS. ZELDA. PERIOD.

Anyone who thinks that any non-CDi Zelda is a bad game needs to be given a swift kick in the ass with a steel-toed boot, because that is heresy.

Nevermind then, that answers all of my questions about the dishing out and not being able to take it rather handily.

 

[Draconalis]

I fail to see how responding to your irrational hatred with a rebuttal that completely and utterly proves you wrong is "anger issues."

He's got you there Revo... he TOTALLY proved your opinion wrong.

And most gamers hat motion controls because they're afraid of anything new. They talk all the time about "innovation," but when something comes along that actually manages to change the status quo, they throw a hissy fit because it's not "real gaming." It's pure hypocrisy.

I'm glad you speak for me and every other gamer. You clearly know why I like and hate things.

 

[Xirema]

I really loved this incarnation of the game, but mostly because the stuff that Yahtzee hated about it are things that I personally am pretty much a sucker for.

Making Zelda the quasi-tsundere love interest to link was pretty much what sold me.

I don't know that we can get sidekicks more annoying than Navi, but this one is definitely pretty annoying, though.

 

[Sean951]

I'd like to think Nintendo secretly pays all their fanatics to jump into action anytime someone criticizes Nintendo in some fashion on the internet, but the reality is just more depressing.

My sentiments exactly. This whole thread just about proves that while Nintendo fanboys can dish it out, they sure can't take it. Depressing, really. If I had a nickel every time I saw someone whinge about "Modern Warfare 2.5" I'd be very rich indeed, yet the moment someone levels the same accusation another franchise that settles with a few new graphical tweaks, new weapons (and maybe not even that), and new maps (that happens to be produced by Nintendo) they fly into a frothing rage.

Except Zelda wrote a whole new story and created many puzzles to go along with the new items, as well as creating a new final boss as well as new dungeon bosses. Oh, and introduced a play style focused completely around the Wii-mote instead of tacking it on like an afterthought. Then you have MW which just updated maps... maybe tweaked some stats on the guns finished out the single player I guess, because that's totally why people play it...

New story? New puzzles? New items? New final boss?

Yep, MW3 had all of those too. New single player campaign with 15 all new levels, plus 32 spec ops maps between survival (an all-new game mode) and missions, new weapons, new perks, new streaks, and a graphical upgrade. Not to mention everything that comes with Elite.

So, yeah... it's precisely as innovative as the new Zelda at this point. Heck, you could make a strong argument for it being more innovative. I'm not getting buttmad about the "derp herp MW2.5 (ad nauseum)" thing - if that's your opinion you're welcome to it, but it's pretty hypocritical, really - so why are you flipping out when someone says the same of Zelda?

I'm gonna ignore the first part of that, because it's a debate for a different time. I'm not mad that he doesn't like Zelda, I'm annoyed that he ignores so many positives to give a completely negative review. He typically finds at least 1 backhanded compliment for any game, but I didn't even see that.

 

[Soeroah]

Well, everyone has different opinions and are entitled to them. I'm enjoying it, though it's not the best by far.

However, I'm very interested in how some people want there to be voice acting. I've heard bad things about Other M, where players generally seem to think having Samus speak was a bad move. I can't imagine a game where Mario talks, and I, personally, hope that if they ever DO put voice acting in Legend of Zelda, they make an option to turn it off, and people who don't like the voice acting use it rather than complain that the series has been destroyed because of it.

 

[Hal10k]

Yahtzee Croshaw, during the slow release this Christmas season, do a review of Majora's Mask.

I beg him not to. He would point out all the flaws, hate the mask mini game and so never get the Fierce Deity Mask, and call the game crap. He would also chide Nintendo for reusing the skins from OoT and point out that it is exactly like that game in almost every way, except where it isn't, which also sucks.

Well, of course he would point out the game's flaws. He's a critic. If you don't point out flaws, you're a salesman, not a critic. And to be fair, the Fierce Deity mask is literally the last one you can get in the game, and its entirely possible to go through multiple playthroughs without even knowing it exists. I wouldn't blame him for not getting it any more than I would blame a Pokemon reviewer for not getting a full lineup of legendaries.

His problem with newer Zelda games is the recycling of the formula in spite of the graphical alterations, so the reused models might not bother him. Majora's Mask at least offers a slight alteration to the formula by placing a greater emphasis on sidequests for progression.

But, let's be honest here, he's not going to review it, so we have no real way of knowing. I'm basically just sitting here with a Yahtzee hand puppet, moving my hand very fast to make it seem as if Yahtzee is agreeing with me.

Why has nobody actually made a Yahtzee hand puppet?

 

[Ariseishirou]

I'd like to think Nintendo secretly pays all their fanatics to jump into action anytime someone criticizes Nintendo in some fashion on the internet, but the reality is just more depressing.

My sentiments exactly. This whole thread just about proves that while Nintendo fanboys can dish it out, they sure can't take it. Depressing, really. If I had a nickel every time I saw someone whinge about "Modern Warfare 2.5" I'd be very rich indeed, yet the moment someone levels the same accusation another franchise that settles with a few new graphical tweaks, new weapons (and maybe not even that), and new maps (that happens to be produced by Nintendo) they fly into a frothing rage.

Except Zelda wrote a whole new story and created many puzzles to go along with the new items, as well as creating a new final boss as well as new dungeon bosses. Oh, and introduced a play style focused completely around the Wii-mote instead of tacking it on like an afterthought. Then you have MW which just updated maps... maybe tweaked some stats on the guns finished out the single player I guess, because that's totally why people play it...

New story? New puzzles? New items? New final boss?

Yep, MW3 had all of those too. New single player campaign with 15 all new levels, plus 32 spec ops maps between survival (an all-new game mode) and missions, new weapons, new perks, new streaks, and a graphical upgrade. Not to mention everything that comes with Elite.

So, yeah... it's precisely as innovative as the new Zelda at this point. Heck, you could make a strong argument for it being more innovative. I'm not getting buttmad about the "derp herp MW2.5 (ad nauseum)" thing - if that's your opinion you're welcome to it, but it's pretty hypocritical, really - so why are you flipping out when someone says the same of Zelda?

I'm gonna ignore the first part of that, because it's a debate for a different time. I'm not mad that he doesn't like Zelda, I'm annoyed that he ignores so many positives to give a completely negative review. He typically finds at least 1 backhanded compliment for any game, but I didn't even see that.

I can understand that, but he didn't give any backhanded compliments to MW3 or BF3. As I recall, he said that the whole of humanity was poorer for having those games. Yahtzee is hyperbolic and vitriolic - it's what's made him popular. Why is this okay for games you don't like, but not okay for games you do like? I loved MW3, but I just chuckled when I watched his review. That's his opinion. It has no effect on the 20+ million of us buying the game. If Skyward Sword is as good as you think it is, word of mouth will pass that along and people will buy it. Worked for CoD4; worked for Demon's Souls.

 

[Medimorpho]

I mostly agree with Yahtzee on most of his issues. But, like any other game, there is always stuff to nitpick.

Hate Fi as well. Like on the boat being attacked by tentacles: Fi: "Link, the ship is being attacked by large tentacles"

Me: "Well, no shit Sherlock"

Still like the game, though.

 

[Nieroshai]

Wasn't expecting Yahtzee to like this one, hating Nintendo's his thing, but to call it the worst ever (save the CDI versions)? Hah, hah.

Then which one is the worst?

Spirit Tracks makes honorable mention for being way too easy and having almost no connection to Zelda lore, but I think the cake goes to Oracle of Ages. Not Seasons, Ages in specific. It was dull, short on story, and lacking in puzzles. But I haven't played a canon Zelda title that was actually BAD, most of them however just don't qualify for AAA rating. None of the console Zelda games ever lost their fun factor for me, and it only makes sense that the portables would be substandard due to restrictions. To me, while Zelda doesn't upstage games like Skyrim, there has never been a genuinely bad one. Aside from the CDI games. Also, Skyward Sword came pretty close to GOTY territory. It beat Spike's precious Uncharted 3 in their own poll. Zelda is a niche game, but it is very good in said niche.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

SNIP

I could argue with you but instead I'm just going to laugh and say that you have serious anger issues. A lot of people love Nintendo. Yahtzee loves Mario Galaxy. I hated the controls in SS. Newsflash: most gamers don't enjoy motion controls because the most immersive experience for gamers comes from instant feedback with minimum movements, not swatting at thin air. Gamers realized Virtual Reality technology was pretty lame when the Powerglove was invented. Nintendo is still making more money than any other console. Now go away and stop acting like a psychopath on the Internet. It isn't even threatening because we're countries apart.

Ad Hominem?
Can't deal with the arguments so you attack me? Okay.

And motion controls are really immersive if done right. And Skyward Sword did that better than any other game. How can pushing A be more immerisve than actually fighting the enemy? Motion controls bring part of you into the game. Do you know what immersion means?