Zero Punctuation: The Witcher

[Poptart Fairy]

Stop right there! You do know that cRPGs like Fallout and Co. was years earlier then the MMO Era? MMO games are build on “parts”(couldn’t find a better word) of old RPGs – not the other way around.

Which doesn't change what I said. If anything this counts against the Witcher once more, because it isn't trying anything new - merely taking the MMO formula and ham-fistedly cramming into a context that doesn't really fit.

In Act 3 there was the “The Bank” (for me of course it was obvious because I already sided with the squirrel but still made me think) and “The Vampire Burdello”(“blue eyes” or something) quest – it was a side quest that had 3 choices – that was also not to clear if you know what I mean.

On a side Note: On one of the forums I met a guy that was cretin that in Act 1 burning the Witch was the lesser evil because she was the most guilty – very disturbing.

Well, here's the thing: stuff like Chapter 3 isn't found in Chapter 1.

As Yahtzee only had experience with the first couple of hours, he isn't going to see the depth that a lot of people are raving about. I really disliked the "moral challenges" early on, but then later...well. I could spend about twenty minutes fussing over a choice. This is the kind of thing that hooks people, not the "collect ten brains" quests.

Just a shame the Witcher didn't try a little more grey shades at the beginning. Would have been so much more captivating.

Hmmm… I could agree with you partly. Taking into account that The Witcher was made for 8 mln $ BUT you have to agree that a small budget doesn’t help (let’s take Bioware, if it goes for voice acting they always have a BIG budget, dialogue… are quit the opposite? Don’t know.

Well, of course, that's a given. I'm one of those people who prefers no voice acting over really poor acting though - the disjointed style in the UK dub is really off-putting.

"Why THANK YOU for doing this. AND I'M REALLY GLAD YOU HELPED. Because of SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED."

It completely breaks character.

I have to agree with you here.

After thinking this over, I think I know why the “exaggeration”. For a PC Gamer as myself TW manual isn’t anything special but for a Console Player as He is it may seem as something very, very-fucking BIG.

A lot of PC games seem to be skimping on the manuals lately too, which is dissapointing. Granted, I can't expect Shooter Blasted Mayhem 5 to have much depth in the written text, but still...

:|

 

[VMerken]

I would just like to add one thing (and break the 300 posts barrier), concerning the comments about the "gratuitous pornographic exposure" in this game:

At no point in The Witcher are you *forced* to get it on with the fairer sex. It is entirely possible to say "no" and complete the game without a single bed adventure. You, and only YOU, decide if Geralt gets busy or not. As such, I don't quite get why people and some of the posters here are getting worked up over it. Don't want to see those explicit mammary pictures? Then don't get seduced, it's as simple as that. You control Geralt's actions, and that's why it's a RPG.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I would just like to add one thing (and break the 300 posts barrier), concerning the comments about the "gratuitous pornographic exposure" in this game:

At no point in The Witcher are you *forced* to get it on with the fairer sex. It is entirely possible to say "no" and complete the game without a single bed adventure. You, and only YOU, decide if Geralt gets busy or not. As such, I don't quite get why people and some of the posters here are getting worked up over it. Don't want to see those explicit mammary pictures? Then don't get seduced, it's as simple as that. You control Geralt's actions, and that's why it's a RPG.

Even mas effect dosent really have that,theres one quest I forget which if you take it you get busy if you want to or not,silly game devs rushing content.....

 

[entropy3ko]

1. No comment.
2. Can you tell me what kind of a mysterious connection does the dialogue have with the cards?
3. You have made a good point, the people who will buy this are:
- Horny Nerds
- Kiddies (does will play for 5 minutes the leave it because it?s stupid ??I hate RPG?s?)
- RPG fans
(I don?t care for the first two but if more copies will sell then the better)
4. Only and especially for you I will explain it, there are:
- main plot quests (thanks to them you advanced in the plot)
- side quests (you get them from people, similar to the ?main plot quests? ? but you already know that)
- side quests #2 a.k.a. Monster Contracts a.k.a. Board Quests (does are the ?Fetch that?? quests that you do to get exp. points, I didn?t do them because I didn?t have the time to fuck around)
5. Your honor, the public prosecutor is trying to butt rape me (and I assume you know a game that doesn?t have flaws).

And the commotion is about 3 things:
- Many think this is a review
- Many Kiddies believe this ?first impression? to the letter
- Many things are made up by Yahtzee because he hadn?t have the patients to look for the really ?mean? parts in this game that made a lot of people pissed

1- No commento on the No comment
2- They are both on the 'erotica' side
3-As a RPG fan I will probably buy the witcher... as soon as the bugs and minutes long loading times problems are resolves (well patch 1.2 should have, or so they say).I do not think I could stand a game that takes 5 minutes to load an environment (and several reviewers pointed that this was basically the main problem.,.. I do not understand why actually did not mention this... perhaps he did not enter a city?)
4-Hey according to many the quests-story-environment are super-dupah-great... so perhaps Yahtzee DID misjudge this haviong not enough patience. I did not play the game so I can only tell from hearsay...
5-All game have flaws The important thing is that the good bits strongly outweight the bad bits.

I just finished playing DREAMFALL (The longest Journey sequel) and OK, it was very short, combat was 'meh', and actually more than a game it was an interactive adventure... but the characters, voices, environments and especially the story were so finger-licking good (at least for my tastes) that I do not care if this game had this evident flaws. I enjoyed so much!!! So I do not really care now if this game is not a game but more an interactive movie (let's call it the for lack of a proper term). Of course I hope the next installment will resolve the issues.

--

-Well he DID say it was a first impression and just played a couple of hours...
-It's NOT a game for kiddies... it's clearly for adults (and this is stated by most reviewers, it's noty a bad thing, acutally is a good thing if you do not like more childish RPG) so Kiddies should not buy it and go play Dangeoun Siege 2 (if they have been really really naughty) or Neverwinter Nights 2 if theyt have been good
-I agree that Yahtzee did not push himself this time. But did he let me down? No (well perhaps as a scrupulous reviewer he did) but I had fun watching the review (pardon: 1st impression) even if it's not completely true.
In any case Yahtzee was not the only one to criticize the repetitive combat system and the inventory screens.


In the END:

reading OTHER reviews,it appears that (apart technical problems and loading times which frustrate many apparently... also the combat system was criticized as a little boring... ) everyone is saying that: this is a game put next to Halo 3, god of RPG's, must have for all creatures under the sky

So it's either a 'Halo 3' Hype or it is really a good game. I hope the latter of course... I already have Dungeon Siege 2 XDDDDDD

--------------------------

PS: and one more thing.... this LONG LOADING TIMES BUG ME OFF. Even if I did not experience them yet it raises a question: do the damn companies that make these games even test them?! Kidnap a few people from the streets and make them play? Why are we once more subject to these abuse?

Why bring out a game full of bugs and THEN release patches to remove the bugs, insrtead of testing the game, bring it out a few months later and with less bugs (ok the goal is bugs free but nobody is perfect I know)

This is not an attack at the Witcher, but at the gameing industry in general. Of course it's like with many hollywood big budget movies, you'd think all the money would produce something good, but apparently it goes only down the SFX drain.
Games follow the same trend apparently, replacing SFX with graphics that murder your PC.

Probably the people who work on video games do not play them nor do they like them, so to expect they can distinguish between a good game and a bad game it's like expecting a blind man to distinguish between a Picasso and road sign...

 

[deadly.by.design]

I'd just like to point out that The Witcher isn't a click-fest when compared to the likes of Diablo or Dungeon Siege. The combat involves clicking, yes, but not the ad nauseum / carpal tunnel inducing amount that other games require. You click once to engage, and again at various stages of the attack sequence. Screw it up and you fail the attacks - simple as that.

(also, both Dungeon Siege games rank pretty low on my quality list.. the first one was boring and the second didn't interest me enough to play beyond a half hour)

The Witcher's cinematics and overall story were good quality for the PC RPG genre. (although I think you lose a tiny bit of the "getting it" if you haven't read the books...which I haven't) The dialogue had its quirks, but it's not as consistently butchered as most people claim. You have some awkward transitions or sudden voice changes every so often, but I didn't find it to be an every day thing in my playing experience. Some of the voice actors, White Rayla springs to mind, ARE really awful. They're more the exception than the rule though, I'd say, as the voice acting wasn't as bad as other titles I've played. (Hello? Far Cry anyone?)

Downsides:
- Long load times (even after the 1.2 patch)
- Still a little buggy (after patch, tho not as much)
- Awkward sexuality that, while not forced upon the player, wasn't handled very maturely
- Some language vulgarity that seemed in there just for the sake of... well... being in there
- The GUI wasn't the greatest, but I've seen worse
- Various voice acting / dialogue quirks
- Some tedious running for quests

Those things aside, and I do believe other games have had the courtesy of downsides being overlooked, The Witcher stands out in the PC RPG genre as a bit of a gem. It's a niche gem that's somewhere between of D&D ruleset hardcore fans and Diablo "ooh, shiny" click-fest addicts, but a gem in its own way.

The only thing I have a problem with his the bias of over-emphasizing the bugs. They were there. They couldn't be avoided entirely. The game's still worth playing for most PC RPG fans though, despite everything. (although I do hope CD PROJECT takes the game's criticisms to heart for any possible sequels/expansions)

Like I said earlier: The fact that he doesn't even mention the obviously glaring load times tells me where he wanted to take this review. (I say "review" because it seems he decided to forego playing the whole game out of dislike, rather than original intent)

 

[Mkoll]

As funny as the Painkiller bit is, I consider this ZP to be the weakest of all. Yahtzee hates the genre which we all know by now. He set out to bash this game as quickly as possible without really stopping to look at it.

I know the purpose of those reviews and I usually enjoy them regardless of my own opinion but in this case Yahtzee's hostility towards Witcher feels superficial. He could have done exactly the same without actually installing the game. Yahtzee, just stay away from games you don't have anything to say about.

 

[entropy3ko]

(also, both Dungeon Siege games rank pretty low on my quality list.. the first one was boring and the second didn't interest me enough to play beyond a half hour)

I totally Agree


Anyway I sure hope they do something about those loading times

 

[WW]

(also, both Dungeon Siege games rank pretty low on my quality list.. the first one was boring and the second didn't interest me enough to play beyond a half hour)

I totally Agree


Anyway I sure hope they do something about those loading times

entropy3ko, what part of the "the 1.2 patch fixed the loding times" don't you understand?

 

[deadly.by.design]

entropy3ko, what part of the "the 1.2 patch fixed the loding times" don't you understand?

I don't know that "fix" is the right word, but the 1.2 patch certainly helps them. Fix might be appropriate for the saving though, as they're quick now.

 

[entropy3ko]

(also, both Dungeon Siege games rank pretty low on my quality list.. the first one was boring and the second didn't interest me enough to play beyond a half hour)

I totally Agree


Anyway I sure hope they do something about those loading times

entropy3ko, what part of the "the 1.2 patch fixed the loding times" don't you understand?

What part of 'Loading Times are still DAMN LONG even AFTER patch 1.2' don't YOU understand?!

Patch 1.2 shortened the Loading times but they are still pretty long. DURRR

 

[WW]

(also, both Dungeon Siege games rank pretty low on my quality list.. the first one was boring and the second didn't interest me enough to play beyond a half hour)

I totally Agree


Anyway I sure hope they do something about those loading times

entropy3ko, what part of the "the 1.2 patch fixed the loding times" don't you understand?

What part of 'Loading Times are still DAMN LONG even AFTER patch 1.2' don't YOU understand?!

Patch 1.2 shortened the Loading times but they are still pretty long. DURRR

As a RPG fan I will probably buy the witcher...

Now, please tell how do you know that the loading times are long if you didn't played it?

And how much is "pretty long" for you?

(note: I have 1gig of RAM DDR 1)

 

[entropy3ko]

Let's say more than 1-2 minutes is already too long.
A minute is a very long time if you have to wait.

I do not think it's only a question of RAM... They probably just messed up in the programming


Anyway it seems that this review has made more angry souls than those Danish Cartoons XDDDDD


All in All I though the review was quite funny. The beginning with Tolkien was hilarious. Besides I can understand our 'Callipygian Superman' Yahtzee. If you are not a big fan of the genre you probably would dislike The Witcher like many disliked Oblivion (although I do not understand the exagerate praises he got... especially those praising the storyline which was very disappointing...).

 

[WW]

Let's say more than 1-2 minutes is already too long.
A minute is a very long time if you have to wait.

I do not think it's only a question of RAM... They probably just messed up in the programming

1-2min? Are you serious?
With my 1 gig of RAM the city loads in 30sec. There are 3 things that may have gone wrong:
1. You didn't patch the game and are still running on 1.1 (1-2min was the time for me with the 1.1 patch).
2. Your Windows is messed up (happends all the time).
3. Your hard-drive will soon kick the calendar.
4. Your PC can't handel it (care to post you spec?)

Messed up programing? Son, do you even know on what engine is TW running?

 

[Um...TE]

I ought to fire up the game and time the loads. A minute is simply broken. Thirty seconds would feel like an eternity. If I had to guess without measuring (stares at clock) I'd say I didn't have a loading time greater than ten seconds (only played v1.2), and those were combined loads and game-saves (which happen on many transitions). Currently playing NWN2 and that game has longer load times than the Witcher.

The Witcher uses a highly modified version of Bioware's Aurora engine (used in NWN1). Area transition loads are a "feature" of that game engine.

Currently playing Half-Life 2. I can't say that the Source engine load times are any shorter.

 

[Whoracle]

[...]Messed up programing? Son, do you even know on what engine is TW running?[/b]

A highly modified Aurora-Engine. For those who don't know: That's what powers NWN2.
And, as a funny side note: NWN2 is one of the worst game engines of all times, performance-wise.

Back in the day, when my Rig was able to run Oblivion at full shine and ca 40 fps, NWN went all slideshow on me while looking worse than Oblivion.

So yeah, it's either messed up programming, as the devs said on the commentary of the limited edition DVD they rewrote roughly 80% of Aurora, or it was a poor choice for an engine, and they didn't take the opportunity to improve it. Take your pick.

 

[WW]

A highly modified Aurora-Engine. For those who don't know: That's what powers NWN2.
And, as a funny side note: NWN2 is one of the worst game engines of all times, performance-wise.

Do you see tha post above you? It's NWN1.

Back in the day, when my Rig was able to run Oblivion at full shine and ca 40 fps, NWN went all slideshow on me while looking worse than Oblivion.

Is it not able to run it now? This is a little bit confusing.

So yeah, it's either messed up programming, as the devs said on the commentary of the limited edition DVD they rewrote roughly 80% of Aurora, or it was a poor choice for an engine, and they didn't take the opportunity to improve it. Take your pick.

My pick is that you lost yourself. You are not making sens. It's like you have forgoten to write something in your post.

"Bad choice for an engine?" If you would check the info properly (look above - "NWN2") you would know that CDP was making TW for 5 years, by that time they were not swimming in cash and Aurora wasn't the oldest.

"...and they didn't take the opportunity to improve it..." - Now this sentance is just plain stupid. You are right, they rewrote 80% of it and it's still the same.

 

[Whoracle]

[...]

Is it not able to run it now? This is a little bit confusing.

Sorry about that. I'll clarify:
One or two years ago ("Back in the day"), my PC ran Oblivion with said performance, while NWN2 had a great drop in performance despite being inherently "uglier" than Oblivion.
My contemporary rig is more than capable of handling both.

As for Aurora: Sorry, my bad. It is indeed NWN1.

As for the "improve it"-part: Aurora being NWN1, agreed, it doesn't make sense.
But don't tell me you don't see how my statement would make sense in the given context IF I were right about the NWN1/2 thing.

And as a final statement: I find it highly interesting how you react to someone (in this case, me) talking to you in mostly the same tone (even though the tone comes mostly from context, but is undeniably there...) as you do to the rest. You really ARE a fanboy, right?
Plus, I have 3 GB RAM in my current gaming rig, a freshly installed WinXP SP2, a fully patched Witcher, the game runs fantasticly, but my loading times are still between 30sec and 1 min. If that isn't the behaviour your Witcher game shows, well, fine. But the rest of the world seems to have the problems, so accept that those people won't be as forgiving towards the game as you are.

 

[Um...TE]

Yes. The NWN2 engine is called something different (I want to say it's the Infinity engine), but it evolved from the Aurora engine, too. Having built modules in NWN, I would have to differ with the opinion that CD Projekt didn't improve the game engine. If I get the chance, I'll time a few loading screens. I, for one, had zero performance issues with the Witcher. Then again, I have the iron.

 

[Whoracle]

It's called "Electron Engine", and, like Witcher, they use speedtree for foliage. Should've googled that BEFORE my inital post...

 

[Um...TE]

Took a watch to the game. Got the following loading times.

upstairs-to-downstairs - instant (less than a second)
enter building (1st time) - 4 seconds
enter building (subsequent times) - 3 seconds
enter outdoor section (Trade Quarter, first time) - 22 seconds
enter outdoor section (Trade Quarter, subsequent times) - 8 seconds

So yeah. Entering a complicated outdoor area initially takes time. The rest of the transitions, although you notice them, don't seem to be game-breaking in the least. You only notice them if you enter and leave buildings frequently (such as accidently going in the wrong one, then turning right around to leave). That process isn't instant.

Granted, I'm running a Q6600 overclocked to 3 Ghz on each core (Witcher is single-threaded, though), 8800GT (overclocked to 650 Mhz core, 2000 VRAM), Vista 64 with 4 Gb RAM (PC800 overclocked to 1000 with 5-5-5-15 timing). In other words a current, midrange home built with some modest tweaking on stock hardware.