Zero Punctuation: Thief - Stealing a Classic

[james.sponge]

At this point I recommend playing Dark Mod

 

[Laughing Man]

But that pretty much IS most of his review - he even admits it himself that he cannot give the game a fair treatment instead of comparing everything to Thief 2. Some of his criticisms are spot on but most of them are just "this is different than Thief 2".

Yes he does compare it to the previous Thief games and yes he does say that it won't get a fair chop because he can't not compare it to Thief 2, but the issues he raises are valid and can, if you remove the comparatives of previous Thief games, still stand as valid points. The reality is that the new Thief is not a very good game be you compare it to previous Thief games or not. When I've told people asking about it I have gone out of my way to not compare it to previous Thief games and have instead flat out just recommended they get Dishonored instead. Yes while it is no previous Thief game it comes close enough and is just a good game in it's own right, and while some of the mechanics in Dishonored mean it isn't an ideal update to Thief, the core mechanics that make it a good game by itself ARE in Dishonored and ARE totally lacking in the new Thief game; gameplay that flows, lack of stupid mini context sensitive actions, freedom and sense of genuine choice to progress through the level, a fairly decent story, decent level design.

If you want a game that is a good Thief game then get Thief 2 if you want a modern game that ticks most of the gameplay mechanics seen in Thief and is a good game in it's own right then get Dishonored, just avoid the new Thief game. It is a bloody awful Thief game and a poor game in it's own right.

 

[sageoftruth]

Shoot! It has points of no return? I was ready to get this game. The Experienced Points analysis at least made the game seem like it would be fun to play. I'll need to bide my time on this one.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Wow. That whole removing of the witty charm, making the levels small, with horrible patrol routes and constant points of no return sound absolutely horri-

.....WHAT?!?!?!?!

THEY REPLACED "taffer" WITH "fuck"!?!??!!?

GGAAAAHHHH WHAT THE HELL REALLY?! THAT WAS SOMETHING SO INCREDIBLY ICONIC TO THE SERIES AND REQUIRED NO EFFORT TO CARRY OVER! WHY?! HOW DID THEY...*garble garble*

Man...I can't WAIT to see how badly Razorfist destroys this game. He's a massive fan of the series as well and has been consistently questioning the designers' decisions ever since details were first revealed. He is NOT going to be kind to it...

 

[sageoftruth]

I got a coupon for a free Redbox game rental last week, so I decided to give the 360 version a try. I thought the controls were clunky, the level design was far too linear, and if you turn off the options to outline interactive objects and display button prompts there is no way to tell if an object is interactive until you go up to it and mash the X button. In speaking of mashing the X button, who's idea was it to make that necessary every time you wanted to open a window? And if they were going to half-ass the Rope Arrows, they may as well have not even included them. AND WHY IS THERE NO TAFFING JUMP BUTTON?!

Oh God. No jump button either? I watched this review for a laugh and nothing else, but combined with the comments, it revealed so many new problems. I think I might change my mind about getting it. If anything, I definitely need to try a demo before I consider getting this one.

 

[Kargathia]

And I thought it'd be hard to fuck up a game about a bloke stealing stuff because he can...

Apparently the urge to insert moral righteousness is hard to resist. Kind of like how the British Empire was the last one to openly admit they were mostly doing it for the heck of it.

Spaniards/Portuguese spreading the faith, Communist Russia and Capitalist America spreading slightly different faiths - they're all so tiresome, and apparently that trend has seeped into entertainment.

 

[Storm Dragon]

I got a coupon for a free Redbox game rental last week, so I decided to give the 360 version a try. I thought the controls were clunky, the level design was far too linear, and if you turn off the options to outline interactive objects and display button prompts there is no way to tell if an object is interactive until you go up to it and mash the X button. In speaking of mashing the X button, who's idea was it to make that necessary every time you wanted to open a window? And if they were going to half-ass the Rope Arrows, they may as well have not even included them. AND WHY IS THERE NO TAFFING JUMP BUTTON?!

Oh God. No jump button either? I watched this review for a laugh and nothing else, but combined with the comments, it revealed so many new problems. I think I might change my mind about getting it. If anything, I definitely need to try a demo before I consider getting this one.

There's contextual jumping, but only in the designated jump areas. They don't want people being too creative with how they play this game.

 

[Thanatos2k]

I almost feel bad for all of the quotes that the developers made about the game towards fans of the series. They had to know that their studio was doomed. All they could do is recite the lines from the marketing department and wait for the collapse.

I find it funny that Console multiplayer shooters are becoming the only reason for AAA to exist. I am not even a fan of those but they are the only time that a game benefits from the AAA machine. Since stealth is dead, I predict that the third person shooter is the next to go. The only thing that AAA devs seem to want to do with those is turn them into movies.

Stealth isn't dead, it's just HORRIBLY misused.

For example, stealth sections have no business being in Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2, and so poorly designed ones at that.

 

[franksands]

So a game that is original and tries to do its own thing, though inspired by the past, is better than a "reboot"? Color me unsurprised.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

At least they didn't shoehorn multiplayer in or something, although by the sounds of it they've done damn near everything else to be sure it's a disappointment.

 

[Zombie Badger]

Wow, I think this is the most bitter and misanthropic I've ever heard Yahtzee, and he's been sliding ever more in that direction for a while now. Do you think we should send him some flowers?

 

[sageoftruth]

I got a coupon for a free Redbox game rental last week, so I decided to give the 360 version a try. I thought the controls were clunky, the level design was far too linear, and if you turn off the options to outline interactive objects and display button prompts there is no way to tell if an object is interactive until you go up to it and mash the X button. In speaking of mashing the X button, who's idea was it to make that necessary every time you wanted to open a window? And if they were going to half-ass the Rope Arrows, they may as well have not even included them. AND WHY IS THERE NO TAFFING JUMP BUTTON?!

Oh God. No jump button either? I watched this review for a laugh and nothing else, but combined with the comments, it revealed so many new problems. I think I might change my mind about getting it. If anything, I definitely need to try a demo before I consider getting this one.

There's contextual jumping, but only in the designated jump areas. They don't want people being too creative with how they play this game.

I figured as much. I guess it's a good thing and a bad thing. It will feel far less like exploring when I'm just looking for ledges to interact with, but on the other hand, the Thief franchise's jump-mantle mechanics were always pretty shoddy, making it impossible to avoid save scumming when lots of dangerous jumping was involved.

 

[geldonyetich]

Yahtzee sounds pissed.

Yep, they essentially took our beloved Thief series and pulled another AAA game cash grab poor console port jobby on it that learned nothing from the previous games and was essentially Thief in name only.

Welp, now I'm pissed, too.

 

[LtAdams2247]

Ok, ok, I won't buy it, you don't have to yell. K, actually you do because it seemes that the closer the vocalization of these vids comes to the title of the show the more passionately you hate the subject matter.

e.g. The review for Spec OPS: The Line had plenty of punctuation while here I had to rewind a couple of parts to let it sink in ;-)

 

[Muspelheim]

Ah, Thief... you promised to steal my heart, but you made off with my childhood instead.

I beat it to death in the hall with my baton. It really wasn't as good as it thought...

 

[tzimize]

Well, that's that then. I'll remove Thief from my Steam wishlist and go buy Thief from GOG instead.

Thanks, Yahtzee!

Best. Decision. EVER.

OT: Played the new one for about 30 minutes, realized I was bored out of my mind and quit. Probably wont ever take it up again either.

 

[V4Viewtiful]

He actually sounded restrained more than usual to me, maybe it just really got to him?

 

[Tallim]

Well that was entirely expected. Not that I disagree at all mind you, I had such high hopes after Deus Ex: HR actually being an alright game (well apart from the Bullshit boss battles and the crap ending) and then... this. I have a recommendation for anyone thinking of buying this game: Play Dishonored again, you will have much more fun.

Or play The Dark Mod
http://www.thedarkmod.com/main/

 

[Colt47]

Yahtzee sounds pissed.

Yep, they essentially took our beloved Thief series and pulled another AAA game cash grab poor console port jobby on it that learned nothing from the previous games and was essentially Thief in name only.

Welp, now I'm pissed, too.

It's gotten to the point where I think 70-80% of the game development and publishing industry needs to sit down with the board gaming industry to see how games made with clear, well defined mechanics are made and how they focus on them to make the game good. Instead of running off to the random writers club, attempt to create a convoluted story while also throwing in stealth like mechanics and check points.

 

[MeisterKleister]

So, in short: "WHIIINE, IT'S NOT A COPY-PASTE OF THIEF 2, WHIIIINE". But then again, you don't go watching Yahtzee to see an unbiased review.

Jim Sterling wrote an unbiased review once:
http://www.destructoid.com/100-objective-review-final-fantasy-xiii-179178.phtml

But that pretty much IS most of his review - he even admits it himself that he cannot give the game a fair treatment instead of comparing everything to Thief 2. Some of his criticisms are spot on but most of them are just "this is different than Thief 2".

At 0:47 Yahtzee explicitly makes the point that it barely makes a difference whether he compares the game or judges it on its own merits.


By the way, "Stealing a Classic"? Do Zero Punctuation episodes from now on have subtitles? Just curious. Also, the description being center-aligned seems new as well.