Zero Punctuation: Valkyria Chronicles

Lord_Jaroh

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Apr 24, 2007
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Max-Vader said:
Lord_Jaroh said:
I saw nothing in his video where his points were wrong. Why don't you point them out to me?
Gladly. I'll give you some examples:
1: The Empire is not the incarnation of ultimate evil (they are still portrayed as normal human beings, which I liked) and they are not only based on Nazis, but also on Prussia and the middle ages.
2: The Federation is just as bad, as shown in one chapter.
3: Let's just say that one case early in the game showed that being a main character with much screentime doesn't make you immortal.
4: The main character is squad leader because he was trained for that, not because he has a tank.
5: The backstory of soldiers is one page, not one sentence.
6: If your sniper hits one out of ten, then "you're doin' it wrong", if you excuse the bad joke.
7: Your own units also fire at enemys while they move, so it's fair.
8: You can also crouch behind other things than just sandbags.
9: Guns can be upgraded in three ways, not in one.
10: You can skip cutscenes.
11: Most of the characters aren't really androgynus.
12: I'm not entirely sure, but I think you can save at least every turn.

I think that were the main points.

I was saying that if you are influenced by Yahtzee's "reviews", then you shouldn't pay attention to them, since they seem to get your goat, or some such. Opinions are fine when they are based on facts. Your opinion is based on someone else's opinion...which means that it can be wrong. As I said, I saw absolutely nothing incorrect about Yahtzee's review, and I ask you to point out these mistakes to me.
I'm not influenced by his reviews, or I wouldn't play JRPGs, would I? And yes, my opinion is based on facts - namely that Yahtzee was wrong at the aforementioned points. I hope I could give you some insight in why I disagreed with him.
Yes, I can see where there is some disagreement, but I can also see his side of the criticism, as 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, and 11 are all subjective based on the point of view. Ergo, his critism is valid, as is yours. He was not wrong in anything he said, maybe exaggerated, but not flat-out wrong.
 

lleihsad

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Apr 9, 2009
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I loved Valkyria Chronicles, but I'd have been an idiot if I thought Yahtzee would like it. I'd also have been an idiot if I took this review seriously and used it to decide whether or not I should have played this game. There's that "taste" thing, again. Great rant, but it isn't gospel.

Also, to Samurai Goomba, you must not have played many games of this type. Intercepting Fire is an old concept, it's just usually called "overwatch" or "sentry mode" or whatnot. I have especially strong memories of it in X-COM, where it was basically a form of random, arbitrary death in early game.
 

Max-Vader

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Lord_Jaroh said:
Yes, I can see where there is some disagreement, but I can also see his side of the criticism, as 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, and 11 are all subjective based on the point of view. Ergo, his critism is valid, as is yours. He was not wrong in anything he said, maybe exaggerated, but not flat-out wrong.
How is claiming that there is only one way to upgrade guns instead of three not flat out wrong?
And how are 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10 subjective? His criticism was not valid, that was my only probem with his revew.
 

Lord_Jaroh

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Apr 24, 2007
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Max-Vader said:
Lord_Jaroh said:
Yes, I can see where there is some disagreement, but I can also see his side of the criticism, as 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, and 11 are all subjective based on the point of view. Ergo, his critism is valid, as is yours. He was not wrong in anything he said, maybe exaggerated, but not flat-out wrong.
How is claiming that there is only one way to upgrade guns instead of three not flat out wrong?
This was the exaggerated part. Once you chose power, accuracy or status effect, there is no other "trees". It's just a straight line on down, with no actual thought behind it. What he was saying that instead of going and choosing them, it could have been automatic.
And how are 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10 subjective? His criticism was not valid, that was my only probem with his revew.
Alright:
4: The main character is squad leader because he was trained for that, not because he has a tank.
They gave him the leadership slot because of who his father was. The fact that he can drive a tank was a convenience. He's aluding to the tank being arbitrary. It's how they did it, not what they did.
5: The backstory of soldiers is one page, not one sentence.
Or one sentence within the game story itself. If you want to get the "backstory" of the characters, you have to unlock it by playing the characters, and then read it secondary to the game itself.
6: If your sniper hits one out of ten, then "you're doin' it wrong", if you excuse the bad joke.
Unless he chose the status effect bonus, or upgrading his other classes rather than his snipers...
7: Your own units also fire at enemys while they move, so it's fair.
Fair is semantics. He felt it had no place in a turn-based system, which is opinion, and I can see his arguement.
9: Guns can be upgraded in three ways, not in one.
The way it was set up, there was no reason for it. They split it up into 3 choices, but there was no point in having the choices.
10: You can skip cutscenes.
Unless you wanted the story, and then you had to choose each separately. It was a very clumsy system, and one that I hope they fix in a future game.
 

Triple G

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Sep 12, 2008
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Max-Vader said:
Lord_Jaroh said:
I saw nothing in his video where his points were wrong. Why don't you point them out to me?
Gladly. I'll give you some examples:
1: The Empire is not the incarnation of ultimate evil (they are still portrayed as normal human beings, which I liked) and they are not only based on Nazis, but also on Prussia and the middle ages.
2: The Federation is just as bad, as shown in one chapter.
3: Let's just say that one case early in the game showed that being a main character with much screentime doesn't make you immortal.
4: The main character is squad leader because he was trained for that, not because he has a tank.
5: The backstory of soldiers is one page, not one sentence.
6: If your sniper hits one out of ten, then "you're doin' it wrong", if you excuse the bad joke.
7: Your own units also fire at enemys while they move, so it's fair.
8: You can also crouch behind other things than just sandbags.
9: Guns can be upgraded in three ways, not in one.
10: You can skip cutscenes.
11: Most of the characters aren't really androgynus.
12: I'm not entirely sure, but I think you can save at least every turn.

I think that were the main points.

I was saying that if you are influenced by Yahtzee's "reviews", then you shouldn't pay attention to them, since they seem to get your goat, or some such. Opinions are fine when they are based on facts. Your opinion is based on someone else's opinion...which means that it can be wrong. As I said, I saw absolutely nothing incorrect about Yahtzee's review, and I ask you to point out these mistakes to me.
I'm not influenced by his reviews, or I wouldn't play JRPGs, would I? And yes, my opinion is based on facts - namely that Yahtzee was wrong at the aforementioned points. I hope I could give you some insight in why I disagreed with him.

Sorry to like interrupt your discussion, but freakin' cry me a river. STOP spoiling people's fun and defending JRPGs. Do you try to be serious in a comedy club and spoiling the comedians jokes, too? This was like the best review in a month. Also Yathzee has some really valid points in his review, e.g. the "we rename real countries to evade historical accuracy" thing. Also as I understood the USSR was left out in this game.

What the hell? The USSR had like 80% of the war and has beaten the Germans almost singlehandetly, the so called "allies" dropped in after Germany already lost the key battles(Moscow, Stalingrad & Kursk).

There were only 2 real battles on the "western front".
1. D-Day, where the so called "Allies" had terrifying losses.
2. German offensive in the Ardennes in the Spring of 1944. This was like the only time the Germans really fought back on the western front after D-Day and the so called "Allies" almost got pushed back to the Atlantic Ocean. And you know what stopped the Germans? They run out of gas.

Besides that the so called "Allies" alomst didn't fight real soldiers at all. They fought 14-year old children and old men from the "Volkssturm" who had just old stuff because all the REAL stuff had to be moved to fight the USSR.
 

SmithyTheDrummerBoy

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Aug 11, 2008
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Yeh good review fella! I know exactly what he means with JRPGs, all the characters are just sooo..... ugh, infuriating! But there is something enthralling about them. Perhaps im just Obsessive compulsive
 

Max-Vader

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Lord_Jaroh said:
This was the exaggerated part. Once you chose power, accuracy or status effect, there is no other "trees". It's just a straight line on down, with no actual thought behind it.
Doesn't matter. It's still three instead of one.


They gave him the leadership slot because of who his father was.
If that was the only factor, he would be useless. His training before was also important.

Or one sentence within the game story itself. If you want to get the "backstory" of the characters, you have to unlock it by playing the characters, and then read it secondary to the game itself.
Or play their sidequests. Still, it's more than one sentence.

Unless he chose the status effect bonus, or upgrading his other classes rather than his snipers...
Then he has even less reason to complain - he can't play (J)RPGs if this is the case.

Fair is semantics. He felt it had no place in a turn-based system, which is opinion, and I can see his arguement.
But why did he make it sound like only you are affected by it?

The way it was set up, there was no reason for it. They split it up into 3 choices, but there was no point in having the choices.
It isn't that critical, but it makes a difference.

Unless you wanted the story, and then you had to choose each separately. It was a very clumsy system, and one that I hope they fix in a future game.
Yes, it is a bad system. But Yahtzee didn't care about the story anyway, he could have skipped it.

Triple G said:
Sorry to like interrupt your discussion, but freakin' cry me a river. STOP spoiling people's fun and defending JRPGs. Do you try to be serious in a comedy club and spoiling the comedians jokes, too? This was like the best review in a month.
How do I spoil your fun if I don't like it? Are you that sensitive that you throw fits when someone disagrees with your opinion?

Also Yathzee has some really valid points in his review, e.g. the "we rename real countries to evade historical accuracy" thing.
How is that a valid point? If the game get's more interesting or fun, then screw historical accuracy. I don't think evading it was what they were going for. Maybe they wanted to try a new spin on the endlessly retold World War 2.
 

mokey91

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Apr 9, 2009
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I hate jRPGs. So, I can sympathize with poor Mr. Croshaw.

This also marks the return of another gag: Chest High Walls!

And once more, the ending was the best part of the whole review, though I don't think anything will top the Halo Wars Panda ending.
 

Grayjack

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captain awesome 12 said:
Is it just me or does Yahtzee really like saying "androgynous"? I mean he said it like 6 times in that review.
The word does roll of the tongue.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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I think he's at a loss for finding any better way to describe a lot of JRPG characters, it's actually a pretty fair term (Androgynous).

Other wise, one of these days Yahtzee will find an RPG game he loves, of couse chances are when that happens he won't review it, and will secretly play it in his basement so nobody finds out that he has become one of "us". >:)

That said Valkyria Chronicles is one of those games I want to play, but had so many others I want to try first. Maybe I'll find a copy in a budget bin in a few months or something (since it's already been out a while).

>>>----Therumancer--->
 

captain awesome 12

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Grayjack72 said:
captain awesome 12 said:
Is it just me or does Yahtzee really like saying "androgynous"? I mean he said it like 6 times in that review.
The word does roll of the tongue.
An astute observation. I guess that's why it stood out to me. Or maybe because the sentence was "standing there like an androgynous wooden duck!"
 

Break

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Sep 10, 2007
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Triple G said:
Also Yathzee has some really valid points in his review, e.g. the "we rename real countries to evade historical accuracy" thing. Also as I understood the USSR was left out in this game.
Wait, no, what? That's not even... Being near identical to real-world countries was the point. It was... The whole premise was WWII in an alternate universe with fantasy elements. Saying that they did it to avoid historical accuracy, makes as much sense as accusing a tribute band of plagiarism. You've got the order mixed up.

Lord_Jaroh said:
This was the exaggerated part. Once you chose power, accuracy or status effect, there is no other "trees". It's just a straight line on down, with no actual thought behind it. What he was saying that instead of going and choosing them, it could have been automatic.
Except that, y'know, that's not at all true. Sure, the difference between accuracy, firepower, and clip size in the machine guns is relatively minor, but the ability to have some of your units use the weak status-ailment guns for support was a useful addition. Moreover, you simply can't say that the difference between anti-tank rockets and anti-personnel grenade launchers is nothing.

It could've been automatic, yes. Instead, they had the player take management of their army into their own hands, so they could control the exact growth and development of their forces, trying to mold an army that most suits the player's style, using the available gold and EXP. This is a strategy game, why is it considered a flaw when the player is able to influence the minute details of their units?

Or one sentence within the game story itself. If you want to get the "backstory" of the characters, you have to unlock it by playing the characters, and then read it secondary to the game itself.
What are you even saying? How does that make a difference? "Within the game story itself", the buggers don't exist! This isn't Fire Emblem, where all your unit aquisitions are from personally talking to a character and persuading them to join you. Until you make the effort to use them, they're just faceless grunts. I don't understand how you're taking a full page of entirely optional biography that's unlocked by simply using the unit (in a strategy game, a genre populated by characters who get a short line to introduce themselves, and are promptly forgotten) and you're trying to turn it into a flaw! What are you even... How do you... It's just not... I don't know what to say to this. It's just... Geh.

Unless he chose the status effect bonus, or upgrading his other classes rather than his snipers...
Oh my lord! A glass cannon class that becomes stupendously powerful later on is hard to use in the beginning! What kind of game is this? How dare they try to balance out your characters! What the hell was Sega thinking. Everyone knows sniping in games should be a twitch-shoot affair that utterly dominates everything at any kind of range. Tch.

Look, there are... Many, many flaws, in VC. The clunky menu system, the pointless cutscene segmenting, the gap in which you're open to enemy fire when you're trying to end your turn, the indecisive nature of the cover system, to name a bare minimum. But a lot of the ones you're trying to maintain, are just... Not realistic complaints to make.

Ugh, the longest post I've made in quite some time, and it's countering a Yahtzee fan in a ZP comments thread. I feel sick.
 

zenoaugustus

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Barry93 said:
pretty good except for that republican joke because it's not true, if he meant Dick Cheney and compasion then i might let that slide and why not say that instead of pointing of a huge group of people. Even a Democrats and Republicans comparison would be better. Oh well, still one of my favorite ZP's.
You can't come to the defense of Republicans everytime someone takes a crack at them. I mean, I don't care if people insult Democrats. Whatever, it's just a joke. Was it funny, well in this case I thought his Republican joke was, so why care?
 

SandroTheMaster

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Apr 2, 2009
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akmarksman said:
last!

I don't know if you could classify Parasite Eve as a JRPG..but it's about the only RPG game I've ever played..but I did like it..the whole mitochondrial science thing was cool.

Not a fan of anime and certainly not a fan of JRPGs.

SandroTheMaster said:
About the Republicans joke. It's no big deal. Politicians ARE soulless baby-eating creatures of the darkness as a general rule. I still don't trust that Obama guy for the sole fact that he still is, in fact, a politician. The Republicans (the American ones, this is important) just have more of a fame there lately for their pseudo-nazi way of view (just change Aryan race for American race and you'll see) and mostly because of Bush's 8 years of telling the whole world to go fuck themselves (the world end up resenting stuff like this).
The world had it coming did they not? 8 years and no terrorist attacks.A scare of avian flu..granted flu kills 34,000 worldwide annually,but the media seems to forget facts like that.
Bear in mind,the previous administration (Clinton) allowed OBL to get away so 4+years of rage against the "infidels" builds up and guess what happens?

How many world wars has the USA had to get in and win while Europe couldn't?
How many other groups have broken away from mainland Europe and started their own country?

Democrats are no better..the economic collapse sailed just fine through 2 terms of a democratically controlled congress..but it's Bush's fault. Hurricane Katrina? Can't point the finger at the people that had PLENTY of warning and waited for the government to rescue them..so blame Bush.Don't hold FEMA accountable..just blame Bush.

Kayne says Bush doesn't like black people..who knows?..maybe he doesn't,but that is his choice.
Can you blame him? Slavery did not start in the United States,it was brought here.
If all the african-americans are so much for wanting their "motherland" by all means..we can send them back. Will they live with ethnic cleansing? Malaria? AIDS?

What color skin is BHO's mom?

There is a good chance I might get banned for voicing my opinions and posting this may make me seem racist..but as minorities go..my ethnic group is pretty low population wise.(I'm native American) I say the Native Americans did not have strong enough borders and laws..which coincidentally the USA has a problem with now.

I don't have a problem with most races,unless their stereotypes reinforce their perceived stereotypical behavior.

Yes your a PROUD (insert race/gender/sexual preference here) but are you anything else?

I don't consider myself a PROUD native american or any of my other ethnic background,I don't have to make it known to everyone around me just who I am and where I'm from and who my relatives are.
Damn it, didn't I just say it's no big deal. I just pointed the American Republicans get shit somewhat deservedly for what they did recently. Anyways, I'm not American, I'm Brazilian, I never considered moving to the US, I don't see much difference from Democrats and Republicans (mostly because there isn't that much, actually) and I know very well the problems of my country (and, BTW, Lula is the best president we had. The only reason people call him stupid is because brazilians are prejudiced bigots who can't understand the concept of sociolinguistics). Also, I couldn't care less about race. People are people, and most are assholes. You can be black, white, native NORTH-american, chinese, or even blue, you're still just a person and what society thinks about your ethnical group is meaningless to the individual level.

And... I'm surprised how you could say so much corroborating what I said to be "pseudo-nazism" and still think you're giving a harmless opinion. That thought that what's american is "just better" is what I'm talking about. The thought that everywhere else in the world is wrong and that the american government is perfect. The strong prejudice against everything that's not american in special (really, Americans are prejudiced against: Canadians, Mexicans, Latin-Americans in general, British, French, Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Africans in general, Russians, Eastern Europeans in general, Australians, Hindus...).

Mentioning the World Wars in special was intriguing. The US didn't join any of the WW out of charity with allies. Actually, the US was still at odds with the old world. In both wars the US wasn't in any immediate danger, even at Pearl Harbor (which was a japanese counter attack, btw). The US only joined the wars out of economic interests, and they didn't need to deal with several limitations during both (like, surgical strikes against the infrastructure). What I'm saying is, the US joined the wars under perfect conditions where the government didn't have to worry about the worst consequences of war while getting a slice of the plundering and glory as well as indebting all parties involved to them. And the concept of ethnical cleansing was something that Hitler learned in the US, btw.
 

Cynopt

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Jesus, there's the entire JRPG genre to plunder, and Yahtzee picks up the first mediocre piece of shit he finds on his In pile. Loved the review of this specific game, but you've got to go to Ogre or the Final Fantasy tactics games to get an idea of what a decent Jurpugurtus looks like.
 

Silva

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Yahtzee is brilliant, though I admit the description of that second character has me interested in the game...

Yes, I went there.

Also that Republican joke was just awesome.
 
May 17, 2007
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Autocracy said:
I really am getting tired of all the people, though, who come on to complain about what Yahtzee says but still watch his stuff on a weekly basis. It's hilarious, sure, but exhausting. I mean, why? If you think he's so horribly biased or that he isn't doing a good job then go somewhere else. It's not as if any of them are giving constructive criticism.

All it boils down to is:

"Lulz, Yahtzee is just a troll"
Wow, five posts in a row. Nice one.

As it happens, I haven't watched a ZP review in months. Just decided to check in and see what he's up to. Anyway, more to the point: that comment was tongue-in-cheek. I don't actually have a problem with Zero Punctuation... as long as it's considered primarily an entertainment video instead of a review. Yahtzee does a great job of being a professional troll, he's very funny and so on, but if the intention was to get across an accurate sense of the game, he's not so useful. Oh sure, you can "interpret" his opinion and translate what the game is really like, but compared to other reviewers he is a troll. Like I said, there's no problem with that for entertainment.

Cynopt said:
Jesus, there's the entire JRPG genre to plunder, and Yahtzee picks up the first mediocre piece of shit he finds on his In pile.
Isn't Valkyria Chronicles like the best-reviewed JRPG of the past year? Although it's hardly a JRPG at all, really - it's just a Japanese game with a storyline and levelling up.