Zero Punctuation: Webcomics

[Mythbhavd]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned LFG as a good webcomic. I've found that it's one of the better ones I've viewed, although I'd have to say that I've become a fan of Unforgotten Realms. The characters remind me of some friends of mine.

 

[David_Cat]

I am a fan of CAD and I thought the digs at it were funny.

Anyone else think that Buckley is going to retaliate in his comic? I sure hope so.

*grabs popcorn*

I doubt it. Tim is too mature

Wait; what?

Have you ever seen Tim attack Yahtzee?

I need to second this, as Yahtzee has indeed publicly announced his dislike of CAD in the past and I have yet to see Buckley retaliate.

This doesn't exactly make him mature. I think he wants to put on a facade of maturity in this way by not directly attacking his more popular detractors. But it's a well-known fact that anyone who criticizes his comic on his forums, even constructively, is lashed out at and often banned. He's not exactly mature.

Too right. Having a look at CAD over the years I kind of drew the conclusion that Buckley is anything but mature.

He just did a miscarriage storyline, and did it well. He is mature.

A single miscarriage storyline compared to years of jokes including Solid Snake attempting to have sex with Link from the Zelda series. Ah yes, very mature.

That doesn't make him immature.

 

[fco]

Wow, I too thought he was joking with the misscarrage thing. I'll have to watch it again now.

Anyway, his hate for cad is nothing new. Just check his post from 23/3/08 on fullyramblomatic.com

As a recent interview with me over at Gamespot and several references in previous reviews and writings may have informed you, I have a long-standing hatred of the webcomic Ctrl-Alt-Del. I thought I'd take a moment to explain it a bit better.

You see, I have this theory that the internet is causing a general mediocritisation of human culture, because you can put pretty much any piece of work on the internet and no matter how hugely it sucks dolphin jizz you'll find some dick who's prepared to tell you it's brilliant. This is the principle on which Deviantart appears to be founded.

But the cruellest thing you can do to an artist is tell them their work is flawless when it isn't. It gives them no incentive to improve or try new things, which a creative person must always strive to do. And it tends to foster the kind of monstrous egos the webcomic sphere grows like mushrooms in the shit-spattered dark. Tim Buckley of Ctrl-Alt-Del is notorious for having a zero tolerance for any criticism, constructive or otherwise, often deleting it unregarded from his forums, or declaring them invalid for half-baked reasons. It seems blanket praise has already done its damage to this fevered ego.

I don't hate Buckley. I look at CAD and I see a lot of misdirected potential. I know, that sounds hilarious even to me. But if you look at Buckley's art blog, you'll find that he's actually a pretty decent artist when he wants to be. But the promise of easy praise and popularity keeps him mired in his copy-pasted shoulder-hunched droopy-eyed slack-jawed magnum opus.

Not that copy-pasted art need necessarily ruin a comic - Dinosaur Comics is one of my favourite regular reads. It's the fact that for having run a gag-a-day strip for however many years, Buckley still has no idea how to structure a joke. I've never known an artist so determined to never learn anything about their craft. His usual response to this sort of thing is that he just has his own style and that there's no such thing as a 'right' or 'wrong' opinion, but the fact is, while humour is a flexible harlot, it still has rules. Rules which can be broken in the right contexts; contexts which don't include anything Tim Buckley has written.

I'm going to post a link now to a Ctrl-Alt-Del comic from July 2007. Don't let the fact that it's old excuse the mistakes; this is still very typical of Buckley's current work.

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20070718

Here's another comic, this one a Penny Arcade strip from early the same year. The subject matter and joke are the same (Puzzle Quest) but it's a fairly obvious joke to make and I can easily assume both writers came up with it independently.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/28

Both comics identify the humour in the situation - that the rules of a game world seem absurd when applied to the real world - but while Penny Arcade understands that the crux of a joke should be reserved for the final panel, Ctrl-Alt-Del is apparently so excited about the idea that it blurts it out right away, leaving three more panels to flounder in excessive dialogue and pointlessness.

A punchline should be equated to an actual punch in the face. That's why it's called a punch-line. You deliver it and run. You do not hang around explaining how you did the punch and that the recipient should probably be in a lot of pain now.

Identify the funny part of the idea and save it for last. Leave with the audience laughing. If you do nothing else, finish strong. That's a rule any humourist will agree with. But with the centrepoint of the gag already uselessly spent, Buckley's comic is forced to fall upon its old standby of violence as a sort of prosthetic punchline. Now, violence can certainly be funny, modern cinema was virtually built on the tradition of slapstick, but it doesn't work in static, non-animated media. There is humour to be found in shock value, but most people have been on the internet long enough to not be shocked by anything as mundane as a claymore through the sweetbreads.

But even if the joke were structured properly, there is still far too much dialogue. This is a problem common to a lot of webcomics, but since we're already in the CAD-bashing groove we'll stick with it. Shakespeare wrote that 'brevity is the soul of wit'. He did not then add 'unless you're writing a webcomic'. It applies to everything, and don't tell me you're arrogant enough to claim to know better than Shakespeare.

A gag strip has a very simple formula. Buildup. Buildup. Buildup. Punchline. Anything that does not in some way build towards the punchline can safely be removed. If any dialogue can conceivably be replaced with a gesture or facial expression (visit Perry Bible Fellowship for a crash course in this), do so; this is a comic, a predominantly visual medium, not a fucking essay. Additionally, any dialogue pertaining to either ninjas, pirates, monkeys or Jesus should be excised, sealed in resin and buried in an undersea volcano.

This is why Ctrl-Alt-Del is a blight, and the fact that it remains crushingly popular despite making mistakes that a child would be brutally caned for on their first day at comedy school is one of the main reasons I openly weep tears for the future of human culture.

I know that an opinion can't technically be wrong and that there could be people who still like CAD for the characters or the art, but if you genuinely think that it is well-written, then you are demonstrably wrong. That's all there is to it.

Yahtzee is well aware that his own previous webcomic efforts aren't necessarily any better but reminds you that they came out of a dark time in his life from which he has determinedly moved on without a backward glance

 

[Evilducks]

The Alone in the Dark comic was a shit cop-out, but the rest of CAD is funny.

Please provide evidence. I don't think you know what that word means exactly.

I'm sure this was hysterical: http://www.cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20080602

 

[edinflames]

Nice one Yahtzee, keep p*ssing off the fanboys, its what you do best.

Some of the defensive reactions to this latest vid are funnier to me (having never heard of CAD or Buckley) than the review itself (David_Cat, I'm looking at you). Really is worth finding the thread on CAD forums, I did so just so I could laugh at the fanboy RAGE.

I honestly don't understand why fans of various crap media products can't just admit that it is crap despite their adoration. For example, I (until the BBC dropped it and I got a job...) watched Neighbours (the shockingly cheesy Austrailian soap inport) every day. Its utter rubbish, but I liked it anyway, it took me away to an Austrialian fantasyland full of beautiful people where problems can be resolved through conversation with the chap/chapess next-door, for 25 minutes. Its crap and I like it.

So, henceforth, lets be honest with one another, Penny Arcade aside (perhaps even PA...), webcomics are generally sh*t. That is why they are on the internet and not a quality publication. That is why the authors/artists behind webcomics are not being *paid* by someone to do what they do, instead earning irregular sums of money through shoddy merchandise and click-advertising.

 

[The Sound Defense]

I am a fan of CAD and I thought the digs at it were funny.

Anyone else think that Buckley is going to retaliate in his comic? I sure hope so.

*grabs popcorn*

I doubt it. Tim is too mature

Wait; what?

Have you ever seen Tim attack Yahtzee?

I need to second this, as Yahtzee has indeed publicly announced his dislike of CAD in the past and I have yet to see Buckley retaliate.

This doesn't exactly make him mature. I think he wants to put on a facade of maturity in this way by not directly attacking his more popular detractors. But it's a well-known fact that anyone who criticizes his comic on his forums, even constructively, is lashed out at and often banned. He's not exactly mature.

Too right. Having a look at CAD over the years I kind of drew the conclusion that Buckley is anything but mature.

He just did a miscarriage storyline, and did it well. He is mature.

A single miscarriage storyline compared to years of jokes including Solid Snake attempting to have sex with Link from the Zelda series. Ah yes, very mature.

That doesn't make him immature.

And your single instance of mature behavior doesn't make him mature, especially when compared to years of acting like he does toward his detractors.

 

[SirCharliePrickingdale]

Great video as always Yahtzee this one I like more than usual because it reminded me of charlie brooker talking about tv editing.

 

[David_Cat]

I am a fan of CAD and I thought the digs at it were funny.

Anyone else think that Buckley is going to retaliate in his comic? I sure hope so.

*grabs popcorn*

I doubt it. Tim is too mature

Wait; what?

Have you ever seen Tim attack Yahtzee?

I need to second this, as Yahtzee has indeed publicly announced his dislike of CAD in the past and I have yet to see Buckley retaliate.

This doesn't exactly make him mature. I think he wants to put on a facade of maturity in this way by not directly attacking his more popular detractors. But it's a well-known fact that anyone who criticizes his comic on his forums, even constructively, is lashed out at and often banned. He's not exactly mature.

Too right. Having a look at CAD over the years I kind of drew the conclusion that Buckley is anything but mature.

He just did a miscarriage storyline, and did it well. He is mature.

A single miscarriage storyline compared to years of jokes including Solid Snake attempting to have sex with Link from the Zelda series. Ah yes, very mature.

That doesn't make him immature.

And your single instance of mature behavior doesn't make him mature, especially when compared to years of acting like he does toward his detractors.

Can you blame him for acting like that? Most of his detractors think they are being so witty by calling him Fuckley.

 

[Evilducks]

Can you blame him for acting like that? Most of his detractors think they are being so witty by calling him Fuckley.

That doesn't make it mature.

 

[The Sound Defense]

I am a fan of CAD and I thought the digs at it were funny.

Anyone else think that Buckley is going to retaliate in his comic? I sure hope so.

*grabs popcorn*

I doubt it. Tim is too mature

Wait; what?

Have you ever seen Tim attack Yahtzee?

I need to second this, as Yahtzee has indeed publicly announced his dislike of CAD in the past and I have yet to see Buckley retaliate.

This doesn't exactly make him mature. I think he wants to put on a facade of maturity in this way by not directly attacking his more popular detractors. But it's a well-known fact that anyone who criticizes his comic on his forums, even constructively, is lashed out at and often banned. He's not exactly mature.

Too right. Having a look at CAD over the years I kind of drew the conclusion that Buckley is anything but mature.

He just did a miscarriage storyline, and did it well. He is mature.

A single miscarriage storyline compared to years of jokes including Solid Snake attempting to have sex with Link from the Zelda series. Ah yes, very mature.

That doesn't make him immature.

And your single instance of mature behavior doesn't make him mature, especially when compared to years of acting like he does toward his detractors.

Can you blame him for acting like that? Most of his detractors think they are being so witty by calling him Fuckley.

Do you even know anything about the discussion at hand? Have you ever tried to go on the CAD forums and make even a single instance of constructive criticism? BANNED. The guy has no tolerance for anything besides words of absolute praise. Tell me what the bloody hell is mature about that?

 

[David_Cat]

Can you blame him for acting like that? Most of his detractors think they are being so witty by calling him Fuckley.

That doesn't make it mature.

No, but it doesn't make it immature.

 

[David_Cat]

I am a fan of CAD and I thought the digs at it were funny.

Anyone else think that Buckley is going to retaliate in his comic? I sure hope so.

*grabs popcorn*

I doubt it. Tim is too mature

Wait; what?

Have you ever seen Tim attack Yahtzee?

I need to second this, as Yahtzee has indeed publicly announced his dislike of CAD in the past and I have yet to see Buckley retaliate.

This doesn't exactly make him mature. I think he wants to put on a facade of maturity in this way by not directly attacking his more popular detractors. But it's a well-known fact that anyone who criticizes his comic on his forums, even constructively, is lashed out at and often banned. He's not exactly mature.

Too right. Having a look at CAD over the years I kind of drew the conclusion that Buckley is anything but mature.

He just did a miscarriage storyline, and did it well. He is mature.

A single miscarriage storyline compared to years of jokes including Solid Snake attempting to have sex with Link from the Zelda series. Ah yes, very mature.

That doesn't make him immature.

And your single instance of mature behavior doesn't make him mature, especially when compared to years of acting like he does toward his detractors.

Can you blame him for acting like that? Most of his detractors think they are being so witty by calling him Fuckley.

Do you even know anything about the discussion at hand? Have you ever tried to go on the CAD forums and make even a single instance of constructive criticism? BANNED. The guy has no tolerance for anything besides words of absolute praise. Tell me what the bloody hell is mature about that?

If you can give me an example of this happening, then I may listen.

 

[mcderek3000]

In the interest of pointing out good webcomics, anyone yet mentioned Fanboys?

http://fanboys-online.com/

 

[Plowking]

He's immature, arrogant, and a total prick. He's stated in his newsposts how much he 'hates his fellow man' then thanks 'from the bottom of his heart' his fans for supporting his miscarriage. He's a one-sided self-important idiot who attempts to be fair through a guise of retoric in his posts.

His unfunny comics are all about someone stabbing another for not 'conforming' - read them and see...and this is how he acts in life (minus the stabbing of course )

 

[TheFunkeyGibbon]

It just goes to show how badly you can mis-read something then doesn't it? I haven't read CAD in ages - it got dull after about 3 weeks of reading (and reading and reading...).

My point, so you can 'get it' this time, it that this EP of ZP was FUCKING BORING. Ripping on comics is shooting fish in a barrel. At least with games you have to make some effort at deconstruction of their flaws. Webcomics aren't worthy of the Yahtzee treatment. So, yes it one sense I didn't like the the target - just like I wouldn't like it if Led Zep started doing boyband covers.

 

[spoonytrain]

How do you know someone is not mature if you don't actually know them?

And how does not responding to harsh bashing and locking posts make him immature? At least he's trying to stop his own rabid fanboys from attacking Yahtzee

 

[The Sound Defense]

It just goes to show how badly you can mis-read something then doesn't it? I haven't read CAD in ages - it got dull after about 3 weeks of reading (and reading and reading...).

My point, so you can 'get it' this time, it that this EP of ZP was FUCKING BORING. Ripping on comics is shooting fish in a barrel. At least with games you have to make some effort at deconstruction of their flaws. Webcomics aren't worthy of the Yahtzee treatment. So, yes it one sense I didn't like the the target - just like I wouldn't like it if Led Zep started doing boyband covers.

Well feel free to express yourself clearly next time. Rage withdrawn.

As for examples, I read about them here and there but never managed to hold onto any. Can anyone help me out?

 

[CodeChrono]

Ironically speaking, it was Yahtzee that got me into reading CAD. I can't remember where, but at some point he made a reference to how bad CAD was ( I think on FullyRambliotic), and I was entitled to read the web comic to see if it was justified. First off, let me say that I love reading CAD. I love the characters, I like the story, and I find the humor to be somewhat funny at times.

I, however, find myself agreeing with Yahtzee on this one. There is nothing more infuriating than what the author does to his own work. I have for so long desired to see some change in the art style, as well as a take back to where the story originally started out with. Currently the plot is irritating because it has taken a turn into a more “serious” plot as Yahtzee said. It's taking away from what is actually good about the comic.

However, I will still faithfully continue reading the comic. Why? Because I like that sort of webcomic. Although there are plenty of others out there.

I highly suggest Least I Could do for the 18+ audience, as it's a pretty good webcomic. Sure, it started off HORRIBLY, but as of late, its artstyle has changed for the better (much better!) and the plotline tends to be much more realistic.


Edit: I find it ironic that Yahtzee used a PS2 Controller scepter as a drum banger that looks identical to the one that the main character in CAD uses during the winter months.
Also, 8-Bit-Theatre for the fantasy RPG person in us all. :O

 

[edinflames]

It just goes to show how badly you can mis-read something then doesn't it? I haven't read CAD in ages - it got dull after about 3 weeks of reading (and reading and reading...).

My point, so you can 'get it' this time, it that this EP of ZP was FUCKING BORING. Ripping on comics is shooting fish in a barrel. At least with games you have to make some effort at deconstruction of their flaws. Webcomics aren't worthy of the Yahtzee treatment. So, yes it one sense I didn't like the the target - just like I wouldn't like it if Led Zep started doing boyband covers.

I wouldn't say boring, I too would rather see a game reviewed.

But you are correct, attacking webcomics for sh*ttyness is like accusing the grass of being green.

 

[Arbitrary13]

I remember when I first stumbled across Zero Punctuation when the BioShock review had recently gone up. I laughed so hard that I nearly passed out for lack of breathing. That's gone steadily downhill and, for the life of me, I cannot figure out why. Maybe the format of ZP has just become familiar enough that I don't laugh 'til I cry.

Either way, though, if this feature has already managed to jump the shark by completely ignoring its stated purpose to further an obsessive hatred with a webcomic, I guess that doesn't speak too well for the Escapist. Frankly, ZP is the only thing keeping the site afloat from what I can tell because there's precious little that can be tolerated beyond it.

Could this just go back to making fun of games instead of whining about the demands of forum-goers or bashing on something that is almost completely unrelated? I've read CAD for years and I see plenty of legitimacy in what is being said here, but I think the major point of contention ought to be that it hasn't been a "gaming" comic for ages. It's a sitcom (sitcomic?). That won't serve to convince anyone, of course.

I suspect someone ought to remind Mr Croshaw that calling attention to something tends to only work in its favor, whereas creating feuds will usually disrupt one's fanbase. In a twisted world, I could almost convince myself that this is a backhanded attempt to bring more publicity to what is, effectively, a bad Penny Arcade clone that jumped off that particular track years ago. It just hurts ZP to keep distracting from game reviewing like this, though. Sooner or later we'll have a video equivalent of Catsby and Twisp or Chef Brian or whatever abysmal non-sequitur nonsense web authors who lack appropriate editors churn out when they've scraped straight through the bottom of the barrel.