Zero Punctuation: Webcomics

[milskidasith]

Ok, I'm not sure where to post this, but motivated MOSTLY by this current edition of Zero Punctuation, I've started my own blog to rant about everything I find hideously with the internet (touching on Tim Buckley in my first non introductory post).

http://internetrant.blogspot.com/

 

[The Existentialist]

Simply put. To those who do NOT like CAD....screw you as you have no sense of good humor whatsoever and should be make into a paste.
Same to PA lovers. PA is not funny in the LEAST.

Let see here...I am 30 years old....being surrounded by a bunch of kids here that know nothing of good humor.
You do the math....dude.

You are adorable. You truly, truly are.

I love how, in your first statement, you expect others to find legitimate authenticity in your claims, despite giving no evidence to back them up. As I've said before, those who have had complaints with CAD have given viable, logical reasoning to their complaints, while those defending it have simply made blanket statements that they feel they don't need to defend. If you're going to claim something as vehemently as you are, you damn well better back it up. It's true PA isn't a fantastic webcomic by any means, but I still think it's a fairly good webcomic, while CAD generally lacks in quality.

Honestly, I'm waiting for a CAD fan to say WHY they like CAD and to give it valid defense instead of saying "I like it, get over it." While this IS fine, if you're going to debate the quality of it over the internet, give us some reasoning behind why you think the way you do.

As for your second comment, I think it helps show you as being one of the most precious pre-teen trolls in the world. Stay golden, Digi. Stay golden.

I for one have no reason to sit here and watch a man just start ragging on things anymore.

Yet you have time to come here and argue with people you think are simply kissing his ass. Seems to me like you're making time for the lesser of two options.

What I really find disturbing is that you people can judge him, but I don't hear anyone here praising Jerry Holkins or Mike Krahulik for Childs Play. That was a wonderful thing and I can honestly say the only sad thing is that it is not spreading as far or as fast as it should. But no, you take an expression of someones mixed and confused feelings and use it to say they are a bad person. You don't find it funny thats fine but you all have just as much wrong with you, and I do too.

Holkins and Krahulik's contribution of Child's Play don't really have anything to do with the topic, unless you're aiming this statement at those who are also attacking Penny Arcade. In this case, it still doesn't have anything to do with the topic because, no matter how nice a pair of men Holkins and Krahulik are (and they seem like genuine gentlemen from their encounters with fans and how well they handle and shrug off, or even play with and use as a joke, criticism aimed at them), it still wouldn't effect the quality of their product. If some feel their comic to be of bad quality....well, that's their opinion, just like it is for those who think CAD to be of poor quality. Though, on a whole, I would argue that those who argue for CAD to be of bad quality have much more leeway in defending their opinion, given the evidence.

As for CAD itself, something's caught my attention recently. I don't know how many others have seen it, but Buckley has been placing these little comics on the front page recently.

I...I don't know what to think. Despite it's utter simplicity, I actually think the look of it is far more endearing than the artstyle he uses for the comic proper. It's not especially detailed in for the full figure of the characters, but he actually makes the expressions seem more vivid for them then those in the actual comic. It's....actually not horrible to look at.

And...he tells a joke without being so utterly and unnecessarily wordy. He actually allows, at least in this example, for the visual part of the medium to actually take part in the joke, instead of completely relying upon the script. He keeps it short and simple, and gets immediately down to the jab and leaves it at it.

I'm scared guys.....I....I think I like this....

 

[milskidasith]

That, my friend, is what CAD was like for the fanboys who read the newest comics and found a series of good one shots and didn't notice/didn't have a big enough archive to realize that it was all B up arrow U faces.

 

[Lord_Seth]

You don't cope with shit by expressing it in your art, that is how the guy who made Evangelion did it and even the Eva fanboys think Shinji (the primary medium through which the writer's issues were expressed) was a pansy little *****.

Yeah, that is true. With few exceptions, trying to cope with things by putting it into your comic/TV show/book series/etc. is not a good idea (an excellent example is the sixth season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer; after "Tabula Rasa" the entire season went downhill). I did prefer the earlier episodes of Neon Genesis Evangelion, before Anno made the show into a "How can we mentally scar Shinji and the rest of the characters with THIS angel attack?" sequence, though I still liked the series the whole way through. But, of course, the fact that Anno is actually a DARN GOOD WRITER meant that it still managed to stay good even when it became more dark and depressing.

While I would debate that loons ability to write all the way till the cows come home, you've got it spot on. Coping is something you do by yourself or with friends, maybe. You don't make an spectacle, and everlasting reminder if you will, of your personal pain that will endure throughout the years...Also, what was up with the floaty Rei clones that made everyone a-splode? That shit got weird later on, to say nothing of the last angel and Shinji. Aaaawkwaaard.

WALL 'O TEXT MAN POWERS, ACTIVATE!

Well in fairness, Eva probably wouldn't have become as popular or as memorable if he hadn't started it on on the darker path. And, to his credit, at least Anno made the transition to dark feel sort of natural by making it a somewhat gradual change (except for the final two episodes, which were a sudden and abrupt change, but that was mostly because of severe budget problems). Of course, in the end it's just yet another example of how Ctrl+Alt+Del completely failed its Cerebus Syndrome attempt.

 

[Tempdude0]

To the existentialist, yeah, those creep me out as well. Toss in a few well written jokes and it may be something I'd be willing to read...Pardon me, I need to wash.

You don't cope with shit by expressing it in your art, that is how the guy who made Evangelion did it and even the Eva fanboys think Shinji (the primary medium through which the writer's issues were expressed) was a pansy little *****.

Yeah, that is true. With few exceptions, trying to cope with things by putting it into your comic/TV show/book series/etc. is not a good idea (an excellent example is the sixth season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer; after "Tabula Rasa" the entire season went downhill). I did prefer the earlier episodes of Neon Genesis Evangelion, before Anno made the show into a "How can we mentally scar Shinji and the rest of the characters with THIS angel attack?" sequence, though I still liked the series the whole way through. But, of course, the fact that Anno is actually a DARN GOOD WRITER meant that it still managed to stay good even when it became more dark and depressing.

While I would debate that loons ability to write all the way till the cows come home, you've got it spot on. Coping is something you do by yourself or with friends, maybe. You don't make an spectacle, and everlasting reminder if you will, of your personal pain that will endure throughout the years...Also, what was up with the floaty Rei clones that made everyone a-splode? That shit got weird later on, to say nothing of the last angel and Shinji. Aaaawkwaaard.

WALL 'O TEXT MAN POWERS, ACTIVATE!

Well in fairness, Eva probably wouldn't have become as popular or as memorable if he hadn't started it on on the darker path. And, to his credit, at least Anno made the transition to dark feel sort of natural by making it a somewhat gradual change (except for the final two episodes, which were a sudden and abrupt change, but that was mostly because of severe budget problems). Of course, in the end it's just yet another example of how Ctrl+Alt+Del completely failed its Cerebus Syndrome attempt.

Eh, I'm not going to debate Eva because, to be frank, my experience with it is limited. I caught the random episode or three and the two movies. From that, I got a very "Uh...riiiiiiiiight..." feeling going on. At some point in the future I still intend on sitting down and watching the series through if only to get a better understanding of it so I can tear it a new one. However, I'll try to go in without a bias to be fair.

I did, however catch that it was fairly dark from the beginning. The only thing in that respect is that it got DARKER as it progressed. I can't say anything about the progression, but the beginning wasn't exactly sunshine and lollipops...And what's with the Japanese and being all "We're awesome, fuck the world"? I realize a little bit of pride is cool and all but it seems like many of the popular animes set up the country as this amazing place that can do anything, while the rest of the world just sits around and sucks. Take, uh...Oh, that paper one. You know, main female character uses paper magic or something? Anyway, the president of the United States/his advisor's are depicted as being some kind of high functioning man-children and the president even goes so far as to literally piss himself...Really now, what the hell? That's over the top even by MY standards.

Sorry, off topic rant. I have issues with the Japanese...used panties in a vending machine, swear to god...

 

[John Freeman.]

If Yahtzee hadn't had made the webcomic video then i wouldn't have been introduced to it,

I've checked both CAD and Penny Arcade for the first time yesterday to see wtf they were.
And I had a little Scientific Test for myself. you can try it out toooo..

With the test, I am unbiased to any either webcomics as it is new for me, therefore it is a fair test.

Test: pick 10 random PA webcomic pages and 10 random CAD webcomic pages

Having 4 levels of Humor, "Is this supposed to be Funny?"(0pts), "meh"(1pts), "chuckle"(2pts), "LOL"(3pts)

The More Points the more funny it is =]

CAD: 1 LOL - 2 chuckles - 3 meh's - 4 is this supposed to be funny? = 10 points

Penny Arcade: 3 LOLz - 4 chuckes - 1 meh - 2 is this supposed to be funny? = 18 points

Woop De Doo.

But rly now I'm not going to waste my time reading these anymore,

 

[eggdog14]

lol , u caught the attention of an israeli webcomic
http://forum.vgames.co.il/content.php?do=view&f=92&id=2452
they made a comic about u

HA! x2

 

[Kovash86]

That wouldn't be the first time that had happened to Yahtzee, I imagine.

Yes the Japanese are known for being weird.

I brought up Eva because it was the only thing I've seen in which someone brought their personal issues into their art form, in a creepy manner anyhow (outside of porn which is a subject that should remain untouched here as it has no place). I really only used it as an example no one (should) likes Shinji because protagonists need issues, but not ones that cripple the character. What TB brought up is significant enough trauma to cripple most people for months on end, and in comics no one wants to wait for the time to pass by, since in comics time is generally a lot slower moving while an arc is going and you would have to run several arcs to get over an issue like your girlfriend/wife having a miscarriage(look at how long it took Iron Man to get over his drinking problem, hell Ant-Man still isn't over his issue with beating his wife and those both happened in the 90's), that's why no one touches that subject even if it happens in real life.

I was hoping everyone wouldn't get distracted by Eva when I brought it up and I apologize for doing so.

 

[HobbesMkii]

I was surprised to read about the exposure thing (because it's genuinely weird) and attempted to google it. I didn't find much.

Tim Buckley doesn't have a wikipedia page (notability guidelines, I suppose, it redirects to Ctrl+Alt+Del). People who do: Jerry Holkins, Mike Krauhlik, Brian Clevinger, Ben Croshaw. Read into it what you want.


Tim Buckley does have an urban dictionary page though. And it's a laugh riot.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tim+buckley

So does the word "Yahtzee" by the by. All the definitions following the first one are especially enlightening.

 

[Tempdude0]

That wouldn't be the first time that had happened to Yahtzee, I imagine.

Yes the Japanese are known for being weird.

I brought up Eva because it was the only thing I've seen in which someone brought their personal issues into their art form, in a creepy manner anyhow (outside of porn which is a subject that should remain untouched here as it has no place). I really only used it as an example no one (should) likes Shinji because protagonists need issues, but not ones that cripple the character. What TB brought up is significant enough trauma to cripple most people for months on end, and in comics no one wants to wait for the time to pass by, since in comics time is generally a lot slower moving while an arc is going and you would have to run several arcs to get over an issue like your girlfriend/wife having a miscarriage(look at how long it took Iron Man to get over his drinking problem, hell Ant-Man still isn't over his issue with beating his wife and those both happened in the 90's), that's why no one touches that subject even if it happens in real life.

I was hoping everyone wouldn't get distracted by Eva when I brought it up and I apologize for doing so.

Oh, I only got a tiny bit destracted. I totally didn't go off on a tangent...yeah, that'll work.

Anyway, people (myself) would love to see a writer delve into that. Broken characters tend to be more interesting to read about if well done. The problem is that most writers don't have the necessary skills to convey what actually goes on in a persons head when their mind breaks under the strain of such monumental emotional stress. I don't mean a crazy kind of break, but that kind that robs a person of who and what he/she is. Their spark of life, if you will. Watching it happen and the resulting attempt to put the pieces back together would make for an unbelievably interesting story.

I'm not sure where I was going with that, but yeah...So...'bout them Yanks.

I was surprised to read about the exposure thing (because it's genuinely weird) and attempted to google it. I didn't find much.

Tim Buckley doesn't have a wikipedia page (notability guidelines, I suppose, it redirects to Ctrl+Alt+Del). People who do: Jerry Holkins, Mike Krauhlik, Brian Clevinger, Ben Croshaw. Read into it what you want.


Tim Buckley does have an urban dictionary page though. And it's a laugh riot.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tim+buckley

So does the word "Yahtzee" by the by. All the definitions following the first one are especially enlightening.

As for background on Tim, check Encyclopedia Dramatica. It may be shit when it comes to most things, but it's normally spot on with people who have "web identities" mainly because everything you've actually done hurts a hell of a lot more than things you haven't done. That's mainly because they back can back up their statements with evidence. It's eerie how accurate some of them are.

 

[Eremiel]

Tim Buckley doesn't have a wikipedia page (notability guidelines, I suppose, it redirects to Ctrl+Alt+Del). People who do: Jerry Holkins, Mike Krauhlik, Brian Clevinger, Ben Croshaw. Read into it what you want.

That's odd.. Buckley had a wikipedia page (heavily edited to remove anything remotely negative) as late as last week if my memory serves me correctly.

 

[Kovash86]

I was surprised to read about the exposure thing (because it's genuinely weird) and attempted to google it. I didn't find much.

Tim Buckley doesn't have a wikipedia page (notability guidelines, I suppose, it redirects to Ctrl+Alt+Del). People who do: Jerry Holkins, Mike Krauhlik, Brian Clevinger, Ben Croshaw. Read into it what you want.


Tim Buckley does have an urban dictionary page though. And it's a laugh riot.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tim+buckley

So does the word "Yahtzee" by the by. All the definitions following the first one are especially enlightening.

I do like how the last definition has 299 downs on it.

 

[moero]

Is it just me or has Yahtzee been a little less of a video game critic and more like a professional troll lately?

 

[PurpleRain]

Is it just me or has Yahtzee been a little less of a video game critic and more like a professional troll lately?

I'm starting to agree. I didn't really like this review so much (oh strike me down). I like a lot of his earlier ones like Bioshock, Halo3 and Fable. His newer ones are starting to loose there flare somewhat and seem to be a drawn out rant on his likes and dislikes. I knew he hated CAD. His said it so many times already, but did he need a ZP to tell everyone?

 

[Worsle]

How does Yahtzee troll his own column? I mean really it kind of goes against how trolling is meant to work. Seriously is trolling now just posting some thing you don't like or some thing? As it feels like the term is just being thrown about with out much thought these days.

Personally I must saw a lot of these comments are hilarious (now this is more like trolling). I was going to make a post explaining how Buckly can not structure a joke, but on looking though his archive I gave up before I found enough of a joke to be worth deconstructing. Now maybe I am lacking a sense of humour but I found most of these "jokes" where at best one panel deals made out of at best slightly amusing concepts (seriously a joke about a sony executive not wearing pants? It was so bad I can't get it out of my head...).

That and despite how much we are talking about CAD out side of the one painfully obvious example of the miscarriage the rest applies to a depressing amount of other comics. Really the self insert, straight man and girl might sound like CAD but only because CAD is the same as a legion of other less famous comics. Yatzee's line in the credits does have a lot of validity.

 

[AlisonPrime]

I dont see how my comic is like his. I do admit i made myself the main character, but I am the same way I act in it. There are 3 girls in the comic and 1 guy, I play the main heroine, who i can prove looks exactly like me, just view the deviant page4 i have for many a photo of me. I just write my comic for the hell of it, if it went offline (which it did til someone e-mailed me they missed it and wanted to draw for me) i would really not care, i just do it cause im bored, i dont want money for it, and i just write reviews for games and shit just because i want to be different. Any cock with a microphone or a type-writer can write about how much he hates a game, or whats completely wrong with it. Any dick with a camera can spout on and on about crap about whats wrong with a game or be a dick and review games when they were just getting into the hang of things and cry on and on how much they suck. it takes an original mind to actually...review games nowadays, tell what you LIKE and DISLIKE about them, and give them a grade, recommend them, or tell you to stay away, now it might not be the most entertaining thing ever, but fuck you, i dont want to be like yahtzee or AVGN, or other cocks who swear constantly, i swear now cause im angry, pmsing, and yes i am a girl, so what? anyway, i enjoyed the video, it made me laugh, but i laugh cause i see it all the time in other comics, just not mine

To re-iterate

1. I AM the main character
2. 3 girls, 1 boy
3. I act the way i do in real life
4. Lists of 3 are dumb

 

[Worsle]

Really scoring for games is a fucking stupid concept it always has been, Yahtzee is not the only person to think it. That and when games are rarely ever giving a score under 5/50% witch should be the average score and we are given meaningless differences like 9.4 vs 9.5 they have been rendered pointless by most reviewers nowadays anyway. You should understand the review by reading what it says not by looking at a score, even from Yahtzee's negative talks I can see if I would like a game (like gta4 going to get it at some point) you just have to use your own brain.

That and if you look like your main character you live in one hell of a scary place. I am also completely sceptical of your "I do it just for fun" routine given how often you mentioned it there. Reads hell of a more like, look at me I made a comic, really look I made a comic! Look at me!

 

[maxusy3k]

I'm going to pitch in here to say;

I've never read CAD. I was only vaguely aware of it's existence and that was fine with me, I wasn't driven to read it and doubt I ever will. I read Penny Arcade occassionally, had a phase where I read it frequently but now, not so much, as with most webcomics, game related or no.

I thought this week's ZP was hilarious, even though I was apparently watching it wholly out of context. I didn't know he was digging at somebody in particular, nor did I care. It was funny because it was mostly spot on the money with what a lot of comics are doing wrong. The miscarriage bit I understand now was a direct attack but, again, watching it 'out of context' as I was doing, it was still funny. Not the miscarriage aspect itself, mind. There's nothing funny about that.

As with his reviews, I'm sure I'd find some parts funnier if I understood the subject matter more - rewatching the Assassin's Creed review after playing through it made it even more entertaining than the first time - but it's not a prerequisite, and watching this week's video as it was presented - a rant vs. poor webcomics (naturally, from Yahtzee's perspective) - delivered the entertainment value I switched it on for.

Delving this deeply into the CAD context and drawing it out FOR TWENTY FOUR KITTEN STOMPING PAGES is something you guys and you guys alone have done. Was Yahtzee bashing CAD? Yes, he was, from what I gather. But he was bashing all poor webcomics, maybe even the successful ones too. That's what the video was about, and that's what it did.

Don't like it? Mark it down, don't watch it again. Pretty simple if you ask me.

 

[DrmChsr0]

You know, we must make Yahtzee hunt down all the cool games of yore to play.

Stuff like Grim Fandango (he'll swear like a battleship full of sailors just to find the game LEGALLY.), the first few XCOM games, the Monkey Island series, Sam and Max(for crying out loud, he hasn't even touched the newer episodes!), Fallout 1 and 2, throw in a few roguelikes, that Penny Arcade game...

Or we could make him play Superman 64.

I dunno about you guys, but I'm usually here to see Yahtzee rip into a game like the EGM of old, or rant so hard about a truly good game that he realizes that he needs to stab his eyes out with rusty sporks because he can't insult the game.

Not that ripping into popular games is bad of course, but I want to see the Portal-type reaction to a game.

 

[Giygas]

I'm going to pitch in here to say;

I've never read CAD. I was only vaguely aware of it's existence and that was fine with me, I wasn't driven to read it and doubt I ever will. I read Penny Arcade occassionally, had a phase where I read it frequently but now, not so much, as with most webcomics, game related or no.

I thought this week's ZP was hilarious, even though I was apparently watching it wholly out of context. I didn't know he was digging at somebody in particular, nor did I care. It was funny because it was mostly spot on the money with what a lot of comics are doing wrong. The miscarriage bit I understand now was a direct attack but, again, watching it 'out of context' as I was doing, it was still funny. Not the miscarriage aspect itself, mind. There's nothing funny about that.

As with his reviews, I'm sure I'd find some parts funnier if I understood the subject matter more - rewatching the Assassin's Creed review after playing through it made it even more entertaining than the first time - but it's not a prerequisite, and watching this week's video as it was presented - a rant vs. poor webcomics (naturally, from Yahtzee's perspective) - delivered the entertainment value I switched it on for.

Delving this deeply into the CAD context and drawing it out FOR TWENTY FOUR KITTEN STOMPING PAGES is something you guys and you guys alone have done. Was Yahtzee bashing CAD? Yes, he was, from what I gather. But he was bashing all poor webcomics, maybe even the successful ones too. That's what the video was about, and that's what it did.

Don't like it? Mark it down, don't watch it again. Pretty simple if you ask me.

I must be the only one who thought he was making an example of CAD being the worst type of comic plaguing videogame web-comics (it was the first major rip-off of PA IIRC)

Though I wouldn't call it so much an attack, as him stating "nearly all video game comics follow in a CAD in a way" or just copy Penny Arcade (the worst example being Shredded Moose which he directly made fun of in the video)

http://www.shreddedmoose.com/comic/comic_arc.php?comicID=81

Oh god, it hurts me to just copy that link D: