Zero Punctuation: Zelda Phantom Hourglass
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
With his fast-talking of intricate words, not to mention appreciation of good humor, I would be AMAZED if Yahtzee didn't absolutely praise Sam and Max.
I love it whenever someone compares a game to Half-Life...and discovers a million problems with it. It is kinda true though; Half-Life, while not perfect in any one area, does very well with many aspects other developers ignore, so in some ways establishes itself as a benchmark.
Once again, I wouldn't use this review to decide whether to buy the game, but it's still fun to watch and is a good way of showing to Nintendo fanboys that yes, there are some flaws with your game, and things like Super Mario Galaxy are not an "embarassment to the rest of gaming". Stop trying to label other people as unoriginal when you have the same FUCKING hero from NINE-TEEN-EIGHTY-ONE.
I love it whenever someone compares a game to Half-Life...and discovers a million problems with it. It is kinda true though; Half-Life, while not perfect in any one area, does very well with many aspects other developers ignore, so in some ways establishes itself as a benchmark.
Once again, I wouldn't use this review to decide whether to buy the game, but it's still fun to watch and is a good way of showing to Nintendo fanboys that yes, there are some flaws with your game, and things like Super Mario Galaxy are not an "embarassment to the rest of gaming". Stop trying to label other people as unoriginal when you have the same FUCKING hero from NINE-TEEN-EIGHTY-ONE.
I think it's not so much not realizing, as that ZP started as real reviews, but as Yahtzee himself has said, people complain when he praises the games, so they've gradually become more vicious attacks for comedic effect than actual reviews. Look at the review for Psychonauts, it has genuine criticism of the games wonky controls, mildly derivative quests and uneven difficulty, but still praises it to high-heaven. Even the Tomb Raider vid had that, but the more recent ones feature less and less of it.runtheplacered said:
Basically, my point is that it CAN be funny to like a game, just not if it's naught but blind worship.
HAH! Awesome Ookami refrence. I almost threw the game away when I returned to the dungeon, only sucessfully getting out of it, though it looks like I'll still have to go back into it one more time to kill the final bad guy. It's definately a strike against a game when you have to dread something upcoming in the gameplay for no other reason than it's fucking tedious, I want to strangle whoever made the decision to take the worst part of this game and have you go back through it 800 times only it fucks you a little harder each time and apologizes less and less. It never even called afterwards.
Bravo, Yahtzee! It's something I've been thinking a lot about lately, and I thank you for providing a voice for the side of the detracting side of my inner dialog.
Well, I gave up on trying to find plot in Zelda about the time I finished with Majora's Mask ('cause, really, video game narratives were pretty much done after that one. Everything else has been extra credit). The one thing Nintendo's good at, though, is that even when they make the same game, they play differently. Let's take, for example, Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World. Save the princess! Jump on turtles! Gather powerups whose appearances don't correspond to their effects! All the same, right?
Well, no, not really. When you get a Nintendo game, you can be fairly certain that the graphics used for the mute protagonist, the angry fire-breathing no-goodnik at the end, and the damsel in distress will be similar if not identical in each game. But you can also be certain that, in between starting it and kicking the fuck out of the aforementioned fire-breathing no-goodnik, you're going to do something you've never done before. Quite a few things, in all likelihood. It's the same damn story, but it's told differently every time - and it's the gameplay that has the most pronounced differences.
Now, don't get me wrong. If there is one thing wrong with the Zelda series, it is that it's getting long in the tooth. Reusing the premise so many times opens up considerable risk for reusing the same progression over and over again. It really started to show its age, I think, in Twilight Princess. (Interestingly, while that game is nothing short of excellent by itself, it seems to suffer from the peculiar condition of being made worse by being an entry in its series. In fact, I'd say that if the main character hadn't been Link, and they had taken out Ganondorf and Zelda and just made Zant be the entire villain, and probably combine those last two dungeons, but everything else were exactly the same, then Nintendo would have been left with a far more interesting piece of entertainment - even though the game would be exactly the same. Use the Zelda brand, but make it a side story or something.)
The big weakness of the Zelda formula is the continuing reuse of the same basic puzzle-solving, monster-fighting, and adventuring equipment: boomerang, bow, bombs, hookshot. That is Link's default equipment, and the world is running out of interesting things to do with them. Interestingly enough, though, I think that is one of the things Phantom Hourglass does best. The control scheme for it really does shake up the traditional formula for those items. And don't even get me started on how much of a breath of fresh air it is that you don't get a dungeon's item inside the dungeon itself.
Phantom Hourglass makes good on Aonuma's desire to take the series in a new direction, as far as gameplay is concerned. It makes the best use of the DS' controls I've ever seen. It managed to take the flawed execution of Wind Waker's two biggest, most promising ideas - sailing and salvaging - and make them work. It even made money genuinely useful again, something that hasn't been the case since Link's Awakening. So why isn't it my favorite?
Well, the latest Nintendo Super Squad [http://www.drunkduck.com/Nintendo_Super_Squad/index.php?p=303492] puts it pretty well. It feels, at times, like you're playing an episode of Blue's Clues. I don't mind puzzles with simple solutions. I don't even mind puzzles with obvious solutions, most of the time. What I do mind is when the game tells me, explicitly, "DO X, Y, AND Z TO SOLVE THIS ROOM." It robs me of the chance to figure it out for myself. Maybe it gets better closer to the end, but as far in as I am, I'm starting to doubt it.
Well, I gave up on trying to find plot in Zelda about the time I finished with Majora's Mask ('cause, really, video game narratives were pretty much done after that one. Everything else has been extra credit). The one thing Nintendo's good at, though, is that even when they make the same game, they play differently. Let's take, for example, Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World. Save the princess! Jump on turtles! Gather powerups whose appearances don't correspond to their effects! All the same, right?
Well, no, not really. When you get a Nintendo game, you can be fairly certain that the graphics used for the mute protagonist, the angry fire-breathing no-goodnik at the end, and the damsel in distress will be similar if not identical in each game. But you can also be certain that, in between starting it and kicking the fuck out of the aforementioned fire-breathing no-goodnik, you're going to do something you've never done before. Quite a few things, in all likelihood. It's the same damn story, but it's told differently every time - and it's the gameplay that has the most pronounced differences.
Now, don't get me wrong. If there is one thing wrong with the Zelda series, it is that it's getting long in the tooth. Reusing the premise so many times opens up considerable risk for reusing the same progression over and over again. It really started to show its age, I think, in Twilight Princess. (Interestingly, while that game is nothing short of excellent by itself, it seems to suffer from the peculiar condition of being made worse by being an entry in its series. In fact, I'd say that if the main character hadn't been Link, and they had taken out Ganondorf and Zelda and just made Zant be the entire villain, and probably combine those last two dungeons, but everything else were exactly the same, then Nintendo would have been left with a far more interesting piece of entertainment - even though the game would be exactly the same. Use the Zelda brand, but make it a side story or something.)
The big weakness of the Zelda formula is the continuing reuse of the same basic puzzle-solving, monster-fighting, and adventuring equipment: boomerang, bow, bombs, hookshot. That is Link's default equipment, and the world is running out of interesting things to do with them. Interestingly enough, though, I think that is one of the things Phantom Hourglass does best. The control scheme for it really does shake up the traditional formula for those items. And don't even get me started on how much of a breath of fresh air it is that you don't get a dungeon's item inside the dungeon itself.
Phantom Hourglass makes good on Aonuma's desire to take the series in a new direction, as far as gameplay is concerned. It makes the best use of the DS' controls I've ever seen. It managed to take the flawed execution of Wind Waker's two biggest, most promising ideas - sailing and salvaging - and make them work. It even made money genuinely useful again, something that hasn't been the case since Link's Awakening. So why isn't it my favorite?
Well, the latest Nintendo Super Squad [http://www.drunkduck.com/Nintendo_Super_Squad/index.php?p=303492] puts it pretty well. It feels, at times, like you're playing an episode of Blue's Clues. I don't mind puzzles with simple solutions. I don't even mind puzzles with obvious solutions, most of the time. What I do mind is when the game tells me, explicitly, "DO X, Y, AND Z TO SOLVE THIS ROOM." It robs me of the chance to figure it out for myself. Maybe it gets better closer to the end, but as far in as I am, I'm starting to doubt it.
I really enjoyed this review, like all the other ones; i've never been much of a Zelda fan anyway. Oh and, the Okami reference might be a hint to one of his next reviews, i'm just saying, Yahtzee has hinted us in earlier videos what his upcoming reviews are gonna be about, EEH GEEH:
On the Tabula Rasa review he says "...Tabula Rasa, the bate effort in which The Escapist parachuted me into for a week..." a few episodes later we watched the MOH Airborne review.
On the Tabula Rasa review he says "...Tabula Rasa, the bate effort in which The Escapist parachuted me into for a week..." a few episodes later we watched the MOH Airborne review.
Excellent review. It pretty much sums up my feelings I've had about the Zelda series since playing Minish Cap. That was the first time that part way through a Zelda game I became bored with the game (I did finish it though, Nintendo fanboy rule #18). Even Twilight Princess, while nice to look at, seemed somehow hollow and too repetitive. Granted a mediocre Zelda title is still leagues better then most of the other titles you'll run across, but that should never be the defense for it's shortcomings from fans or Nintendo themselves.
I love the Okami reference in particular. For my money Okami is the best "Zelda" game I've played in years. I also got a good laugh out of the Foghorn Leghorn line. You make Wednesdays fun.
I love the Okami reference in particular. For my money Okami is the best "Zelda" game I've played in years. I also got a good laugh out of the Foghorn Leghorn line. You make Wednesdays fun.
Loved the review, and rather glad that he didn't play to the end, since that would've really pissed him off.
I dont know what you guys are talking about, this was, without a doubt, a review. He talked about-
A. The plot
B. The Dungeon/Timers on Dungeons
C. The new control scheme
D. The total rehash of weapons
I'm sorry, but what exactly is he missing to make this a review? Thats besides the fact that this IS the same exact Zelda we've seen a million times before, except on the DS, meaning some fancy controls. That being the case, Zelda
Insert Name Here) has been reviewed hundreds upon thousands of times. If you looking for a serious review try www.google.com, it does wonders for the ill informed.
Anyway. Good review, funny as always. Okami was, and still is *the* best action/adventure game I've ever played, better than any Zelda. I know reviewing games you actually enjoy is outside the norm Yahtzee, but why not review Okami? You've reviewed older games than that, so I don't see any problem.
A. The plot
B. The Dungeon/Timers on Dungeons
C. The new control scheme
D. The total rehash of weapons
I'm sorry, but what exactly is he missing to make this a review? Thats besides the fact that this IS the same exact Zelda we've seen a million times before, except on the DS, meaning some fancy controls. That being the case, Zelda
Insert Name Here) has been reviewed hundreds upon thousands of times. If you looking for a serious review try www.google.com, it does wonders for the ill informed.Anyway. Good review, funny as always. Okami was, and still is *the* best action/adventure game I've ever played, better than any Zelda. I know reviewing games you actually enjoy is outside the norm Yahtzee, but why not review Okami? You've reviewed older games than that, so I don't see any problem.
good review as always but...
"what if valve..."
had HL2 be about a scientist running a gauntlet from a to b, attacked by headcrabs and military types, with no backstory or details of what is going on.
Only substitute the lemon bazooka for the grav gun. For all the hype I was very disappointed with HL2/EP1/EP2.
At least Portal rocked, Valve can seemingly find originality if they limit themselves to 2-3 hours gameplay.
"what if valve..."
had HL2 be about a scientist running a gauntlet from a to b, attacked by headcrabs and military types, with no backstory or details of what is going on.
Only substitute the lemon bazooka for the grav gun. For all the hype I was very disappointed with HL2/EP1/EP2.
At least Portal rocked, Valve can seemingly find originality if they limit themselves to 2-3 hours gameplay.
I bought a Wii thinking that since it was the first Nintendo I had purchased I should be ok from the usual gripes.
So far the most fun I've had is playing Mario Kart 64. Seriously...do Nintendo just roll around in their own fecal matter and hope that people will keep paying money for what splashes out?
So far the most fun I've had is playing Mario Kart 64. Seriously...do Nintendo just roll around in their own fecal matter and hope that people will keep paying money for what splashes out?
Oh but other companies have gotten away with it!
*cough*halo*cough*
I have to say that of the Nintendo Franchises, LoZ is in fact, the few that doesn't have much difference between it's games, but it's pretty much similar themes and gameplay.
Mario on the other hand, at least it's franchise many of its games vary dramatically in terms of game play. Donkey Kong as well had games with varying types of game play (okay well most of this was forced because of Rare no longer working for Nintendo....)
and the Ookami reference amuses me.
*cough*halo*cough*
I have to say that of the Nintendo Franchises, LoZ is in fact, the few that doesn't have much difference between it's games, but it's pretty much similar themes and gameplay.
Mario on the other hand, at least it's franchise many of its games vary dramatically in terms of game play. Donkey Kong as well had games with varying types of game play (okay well most of this was forced because of Rare no longer working for Nintendo....)
and the Ookami reference amuses me.
I'm in kind of a funny situation in that I loved both Phantom Hourglass and this review. I think one of the biggest reasons I love Yahtzee is the same reason I sometimes like playing devil's advocate in debates - it helps bring some perspective into something being god-worshipped by so many people who are incapable of admitting that anything is wrong with it. I may not agree with everything he says, but he puts forth what he thinks so well and in such a funny manner that it really doesn't matter, and certainly provides food for thought if nothing else.
I do certainly agree with those who say that other companies are just as guilty of rehashing gameplay elements, but that's pretty well irrelevant - the simple fact that others do it doesn't make it okay for another company to do it. Otherwise, every single company could just release the same game over and over and you'd have to accept it because "well, everyone else is doing it".
Oh yes, I suppose I should say that I'm yet another who registered to tell Yahtzee how much I love his stuff. Because he clearly doesn't have a big enough ego as it is from how many people have already said that.
I do certainly agree with those who say that other companies are just as guilty of rehashing gameplay elements, but that's pretty well irrelevant - the simple fact that others do it doesn't make it okay for another company to do it. Otherwise, every single company could just release the same game over and over and you'd have to accept it because "well, everyone else is doing it".
Oh yes, I suppose I should say that I'm yet another who registered to tell Yahtzee how much I love his stuff. Because he clearly doesn't have a big enough ego as it is from how many people have already said that.
It's a shame you know, there are a couple of really excellent games in the Zelda series but the repetitive stuff that Aonuma has been plying devotees with since he took over direction of the franchise besmirches their memory, dare I say.
It seems Eiji's brief is just to make the things look nice and control well enough to get new punters on board, but not to spend any time on substantially revising the formula as everyone knows there'll be another slightly tweaked iteration on the shelves in two years time anyway. The backlash is inevitable. Here's hoping Metroid doesn't go down too far down the same road.
It seems Eiji's brief is just to make the things look nice and control well enough to get new punters on board, but not to spend any time on substantially revising the formula as everyone knows there'll be another slightly tweaked iteration on the shelves in two years time anyway. The backlash is inevitable. Here's hoping Metroid doesn't go down too far down the same road.
I fucking hate Nintendo so much.
Okay, they made one or two good games, they can fuck off now. Mario Galaxy is the exact same thing as this; a total rehash, except in space. Millions and millions of mouth-breathing wiitards will still buy it on launch day only to waste 15 hours of their time collecting all the 120 golden pieces of shit or whatever, and then the game will collect dust on their shelves for years until Nintendo finally releases another game of the exact same caliber at which point they'll return it for less than a fraction of a penny's worth of store credit towards purchasing the next one.
Okay, they made one or two good games, they can fuck off now. Mario Galaxy is the exact same thing as this; a total rehash, except in space. Millions and millions of mouth-breathing wiitards will still buy it on launch day only to waste 15 hours of their time collecting all the 120 golden pieces of shit or whatever, and then the game will collect dust on their shelves for years until Nintendo finally releases another game of the exact same caliber at which point they'll return it for less than a fraction of a penny's worth of store credit towards purchasing the next one.