Uh, except it is. It's more polished and has the physics/Grav Gun stuff, but that's comparable to the touch screen control and new uses for the grappling hook in Zelda. Take that gameplay stuff out and he's complaining about the storyline, which is utterly ridiculous. Nintendo's games NEVER have deep, layered plots, because they're gameplay first. I think Miyamoto's even said that. Either that or it's simply the fact that it IS a franchise that's the issue, in which case, then yes, Okami's the answer. A great game that plays very similarly to Zelda with a different setting and a new gimmick, in this case, instead of music or sailing, painting.
Zero Punctuation: Zelda Phantom Hourglass
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
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I can't even BEGIN to describe how much better this review was than last week's. You have restored my faith, and I've just slapped myself for ever having doubted your magnificence. Thank you.
Edit: Flak Towers!
Edit: Flak Towers!
I like how a lot of people on this thread are still going on about that Zelda's plots are essentially all the same. Really anyone with half a brain will know that Nintendo doesn't give a damn about the plot. Nintendo will always make sure that the gameplay is perfect before thinking of a way of to give it meaning. If you look at Ocarina of Time and Mario 64 you will find that many people hold these games in the highest regards put both have the same awful plot that has been seen countless times before.
Phantom Hourglass is by no means the best game ever, nor is it the best Zelda. However there is no two ways about it that it is a fantastic game with its only bad point being the god awful Temple of the Ocean King due to it's enforce time limit and stealth. Zelda is still an amazing franchise that has yet to dissapoint (rubbish CD-i games aside).
Nintendo will keep releasing their franchise games because they are sucessful, however with Nintendo you are nearly assured a great experience, which is why Nintendo can still get away with it after 20 years. Plus all those people who think that Nintendo only releases franchise games are completely wrong as Nintendo are one of the only developers who are still willing to take risks on their games. I mean 5 years ago who thought that a game about training a dog would be sucessful? 10 years ago who thought that a game about a spaceman using walking carrots as a weapon would be a good game? No one and all people who think otherwise can clear off.
Phantom Hourglass is by no means the best game ever, nor is it the best Zelda. However there is no two ways about it that it is a fantastic game with its only bad point being the god awful Temple of the Ocean King due to it's enforce time limit and stealth. Zelda is still an amazing franchise that has yet to dissapoint (rubbish CD-i games aside).
Nintendo will keep releasing their franchise games because they are sucessful, however with Nintendo you are nearly assured a great experience, which is why Nintendo can still get away with it after 20 years. Plus all those people who think that Nintendo only releases franchise games are completely wrong as Nintendo are one of the only developers who are still willing to take risks on their games. I mean 5 years ago who thought that a game about training a dog would be sucessful? 10 years ago who thought that a game about a spaceman using walking carrots as a weapon would be a good game? No one and all people who think otherwise can clear off.
I'm surprised that he did not point out how stupid the game presumes you are. I am all for a game thinking that I am an intelligent player, because it means more often than not I get to do something cool and go "Oh, cool, I figured it out". Sure, you get stuck on a few frustrating puzzles, but ah well, even puzzle games for "stupids" have these moments too.
But, no, not Phantom Hourglass. Oh no, no, no. Every five goddamn seconds that little Navi wannabe fuck will nag the living hell out of you.
-"HEY LINK, TAP THE DOOR TO OPEN IT."
-"WHAT'S ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS DOOR I WONDER FAGBALLS? HEY FAGBALLS, WHY DON'T YOU TAP ON THE DOOR TO OPEN IT?"
-"FAGBALLS, I SEE A MAP. EVEN THOUGH YOU CLICKED ON IT AND ALREADY DREW DOWN EVERY HINT THAT YOU NEED I THINK I NEED TO POINT OUT THAT YOU SHOULD DRAW IT DOWN."
Dammit Navi, I will kill you, I will killl youuuu!!
But, no, not Phantom Hourglass. Oh no, no, no. Every five goddamn seconds that little Navi wannabe fuck will nag the living hell out of you.
-"HEY LINK, TAP THE DOOR TO OPEN IT."
-"WHAT'S ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS DOOR I WONDER FAGBALLS? HEY FAGBALLS, WHY DON'T YOU TAP ON THE DOOR TO OPEN IT?"
-"FAGBALLS, I SEE A MAP. EVEN THOUGH YOU CLICKED ON IT AND ALREADY DREW DOWN EVERY HINT THAT YOU NEED I THINK I NEED TO POINT OUT THAT YOU SHOULD DRAW IT DOWN."
Dammit Navi, I will kill you, I will killl youuuu!!
To be serious for a minute, pointing out that every Zelda is more or less the same is about fifteen years too late to be relevant let alone thoughtful. The original Zelda is the archetype that nearly every console action-adventure follows. They can all be distilled down to "Go to dungeon X and collect item Y so that you can overcome Z." Even Psychonauts follows this.
Even when a Zelda is a sequel like Link's Awakening or references an earlier game like Twilight Pricess, the connection isn't substantial at best and insignificant at worst. Majora's Mask's connection to Ocarina of Time is the eponymous item. The only tie Phantom Hourglass has to Wind Waker is the boating. That could be changed to nearly any other kind of transportation with close to no effect on the rest of the game; you could be paragliding between spires in a bottomless abyss without changing the landed elements. Link's Awakening is only a sequel to A Link to the Past because people say that it is. All Twilight Pricess does is name drop the Hero of Time once in a while and calls it a day. The only exception is Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons, but those are more or less one game split in two.
Each game is different enough that the only commonality is the title, Link, Zelda and Ganon. The common characters are generic enough that any other character with any other backstory could take their place. As for the items, the only common ones are the sword, bow and hookshot which are conveniently the only items that Ben mentions. If the characters were changed, and the title shortened to just the subtitle, the complaints about similarity don't hold any water because you've dragged the entire genre into the argument.
The reason Zelda is a franchise instead of twelve seperate games is that there's a sense of pedigree with a franchise for both the developer and the player. If Game 2 was good, Game 3 will be too even with no connection apart from the name e.g. Final Fantasy. The same goes for the developer because they have to uphold the standard set by previous entries. That feeling doesn't necessary go along with individual games.
Even when a Zelda is a sequel like Link's Awakening or references an earlier game like Twilight Pricess, the connection isn't substantial at best and insignificant at worst. Majora's Mask's connection to Ocarina of Time is the eponymous item. The only tie Phantom Hourglass has to Wind Waker is the boating. That could be changed to nearly any other kind of transportation with close to no effect on the rest of the game; you could be paragliding between spires in a bottomless abyss without changing the landed elements. Link's Awakening is only a sequel to A Link to the Past because people say that it is. All Twilight Pricess does is name drop the Hero of Time once in a while and calls it a day. The only exception is Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons, but those are more or less one game split in two.
Each game is different enough that the only commonality is the title, Link, Zelda and Ganon. The common characters are generic enough that any other character with any other backstory could take their place. As for the items, the only common ones are the sword, bow and hookshot which are conveniently the only items that Ben mentions. If the characters were changed, and the title shortened to just the subtitle, the complaints about similarity don't hold any water because you've dragged the entire genre into the argument.
The reason Zelda is a franchise instead of twelve seperate games is that there's a sense of pedigree with a franchise for both the developer and the player. If Game 2 was good, Game 3 will be too even with no connection apart from the name e.g. Final Fantasy. The same goes for the developer because they have to uphold the standard set by previous entries. That feeling doesn't necessary go along with individual games.
um...sword, bow, hookshot, musical instrument, bombs, animal transformation, mirror shield, deku sticks, light arrows, elemental arrows, bottles, fairies...
Maybe some of those are less valid, but that's still way too bleedin much to Ctrl-C Ctrl-V into every Zelda game, and consider a new puzzle.
Maybe some of those are less valid, but that's still way too bleedin much to Ctrl-C Ctrl-V into every Zelda game, and consider a new puzzle.
I think it is you who missunderstands me. Or it is me that I didn't explain myself properly.Shiloa said:
I know that he was refering to specifically Episode II, but it is something that can be applied to all the series using that kind of criteria. As Gaz_L pointed out, the Zelda games "reharshes" themselves the same way "Half-Life 2" "reharshes" "Half-Life 1". You can say that "Phantom Hourglass" is the same fucking game with touch controls, or that "Ocarina of Time" is the same fucking game with time travels. But then we can also say that "Half-Life 2" is the same fucking game with a gravity gun. Just like that.
As matter of fact, with that criteria every single videogame series in history rehash themselves starting right from part 2.
That's what I meant with that he was complaining about this Zelda game for being a Zelda game.
And as Gaz_L also said, take the gameplay elements complains out (because they are utterly wrong for the matter we are disscussing)and Yahtzee's complains are all about storyline, and Zelda storylines are not multi-layered nor have impossible plot twists. They never have been, not even intented to.
Maybe Yahtzee find it more anoying with the Zelda series because they are released more often, eventhough that's more because Nintendo tries to release at least one entry per system, being that either console or handheld. It's not like they milk the series like they do with, say, "Mario Party" that appear every fucking year.
And as they have said before, the complain about Nintendo not releasing new franchises is just not true. "Animal Crossing", "Nintendogs", "Brain Training", "Excite Trucks", "Trauma Center"... you may like or dislike those titles, but they ARE new franchises. I think that the proper complain would be that Nintendo should spend the same money in those new franchises as they do with Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Pokémon (as in being big budget games).
Which is worse montanty in game type like zelda or of the wall insanity like Mario sunshine....
there is a balance to keeping things fun and well...
Mario and Zelda both have fallen on the fun factor Wind waker was evil the sailing killed it for me and the extra weapons and what not just were mared by to many rules to keep it from being fun..
Zelda:TWP is pretty much the same if they would ease off all the overly restrictive rules and BS and make the tools and stuff more useful the game would be fun, my only real complaint about sunshine is the out of sync jump zones that are mandatory to clear the rest of it was not so bad but come on nintendo is it so hard to do a real 3D mario game with his normal line of power ups the wonky and weak 3D stuff has been well....weak....
edit
Oh and you want originality in a series try Final fantasy, which with every other or nearly every game manages to toss out everything that works or is fun for something beyond stupid or is beyond grindy.
Originality dose not equate to fun............ and games are suppose to be about fun not what you can sell to the mindless googled eyed noobs who think watching pixels masturbate on screen is cool, I grew out of the whole "oooooo shiny" thing years ago and find a huge lack of depth is most gaming now adays.
Is it so much to ask less shiny more fun?
there is a balance to keeping things fun and well...
Mario and Zelda both have fallen on the fun factor Wind waker was evil the sailing killed it for me and the extra weapons and what not just were mared by to many rules to keep it from being fun..
Zelda:TWP is pretty much the same if they would ease off all the overly restrictive rules and BS and make the tools and stuff more useful the game would be fun, my only real complaint about sunshine is the out of sync jump zones that are mandatory to clear the rest of it was not so bad but come on nintendo is it so hard to do a real 3D mario game with his normal line of power ups the wonky and weak 3D stuff has been well....weak....
edit
Oh and you want originality in a series try Final fantasy, which with every other or nearly every game manages to toss out everything that works or is fun for something beyond stupid or is beyond grindy.
Originality dose not equate to fun............ and games are suppose to be about fun not what you can sell to the mindless googled eyed noobs who think watching pixels masturbate on screen is cool, I grew out of the whole "oooooo shiny" thing years ago and find a huge lack of depth is most gaming now adays.
Is it so much to ask less shiny more fun?
Well, Zelda games does indeed repeat themselves.. but I don't know, it's never bothered me. Be it Zelda or Mario, when I fire up the new game I want to go save the princess.
I'm pretty sure the Zelda series taking a new path would never be recieved well, in fact most big name franchises who actually do try to make big changes to the formula tend to get the piss taken out of them for it.
Let's say we replace Link with, oh I don't know, Raiden from Metal Gear Solid 2, you think the fanbase would appreciate this bold move?
I'm pretty sure the Zelda series taking a new path would never be recieved well, in fact most big name franchises who actually do try to make big changes to the formula tend to get the piss taken out of them for it.
Let's say we replace Link with, oh I don't know, Raiden from Metal Gear Solid 2, you think the fanbase would appreciate this bold move?
Yes, this is my single only complaint about the otherwise godlike Yahtzee. I really dislike the use of the word "fag." To me, it's on par with using the N-word. It's hate speech, pure and simple (unless he's talking about cigarettes, but in this case, I highly doubt it).Redfeather said:
And indeed, I get enough of an earful/eyeful while playing WoW in trade chat or battleground chat (I try to avoid Barrens chat whenever possible).
Other than that blemish, a most hilarious review as always.
ermm, Xander, isn't it hudson doing that mario party thing? Maybe nintendo should shut the valve for once, oh well.
Anyway, great review and i hope to see more of that stuff ^^ Maybe i'll read more articles on this web, if i can find the patience.
Anyway, great review and i hope to see more of that stuff ^^ Maybe i'll read more articles on this web, if i can find the patience.
well i always liked the zelda games myself until Windwaker.. so I can understand how they get away with itShiloa said:
the games they repeat the whole time are the really good ones, zelda for example is.. no was one of the longest games I've ever played and I even enjoyed playing it more than once (ocarina of time & majoras mask). but I also agree with you guys that they should "invent" some more "new" games since the zelda and mario games are getting easier and easier the more mainstream nintendo is going (Wii -.-)... uhm yeah.. you did a really good job btw again yahtzee Trauma Center is not Nintendo, Excite Truck is a dodgy one because it can easily been seen as a resurrection of the Excitebike series, which leaves the other three, one of which is Edutainment (Brain Training).Xander_VJ said:
Fair enough on the possible change in complaint, but fact of the matter is Nintendo may want to think of themselves as the most innovative, but they're just not. With exception to "Starfox Adventures", "LOZ: Link's Awakening", "Mario 2" (US), "Zelda 2" and "F-Zero GP Legend", all of their games are identical. NONE of their newer IPs have even come close to dethroning any of them. Pikmin and Animal Crossing are prime examples of two games that showed up, peaked, fizzled and faded to black.Xander_VJ said:
Meantime, you get the latest Zelda and you already know the plot. Get the latest proper Mario game (as opposed to games that throw Mario in to try to get more sales from the mascot) and you know the plot. Ditto for Metroid. Other IPs that used to be big: Pilotwings died with the N64, F-Zero has been declining (even though GX was one of the best, IMO, but limited because the Cube played 3rd string behind the PS2 and Xbox), Pokemon is the same repetitive RPG or fighter.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: If it hadn't been for Pokemon keeping the Nintendo brand fresh to younger gamers and Super Smash Bros. bringing a quality exclusive fighter to the Nintendo consoles, Nintendo's console efforts would have been driven down the same road as Sega.