National Guard called into Minneapolis

[Revnak]

The MSNBC reporter hit by a firework you mean?

Or the guy dropping the thing that exploded and had it thrown back into his car?

Both, I’ll go with both. I’ve as much evidence as you have, and PB and Boogaloo types have talked a lot about using fireworks to scare protesters on telegram and various leaked chats. All leaked by Antifa anarchists, another major part of what they do.

I can buy the video of the bricks not being where the protests or rioted had happened but I it seems odd yet more bricks were found like that when evidence has been seen of them about. Also it seems dumb for Police to carry bricks round to try and Blackmail the Mayor when they could just plan a weapons cache somewhere without ammo and use that.

I can buy it wasn't near where things happened though some of the other claims seem a bit suspect there.

Sow division and conspiracy. COINTELPRO 101.

See now you have evidence of that one so I'm listening.
See now you have evidence of that one so I'm listening.

Still it is only 3 and it's weird as hell White Supremacists are even organised enough to tie up their own jackboots most of the time they're incompetent idiots seemingly. Let alone organise people to start riots like this.

Dude they do this monthly now, FBI’s had dozens of shootouts with these dudes as of late.

 

[Revnak]

A lot of them have more merit than others from what I can see in that thread.

E.g. the protester who makes contact with a bike cop being grabbed which from being a 3rd person it look like the Police officer over-reacting but from the Officers perspective all he realised was there was a hand reaching towards his belt. Which if he was armed could have been interpreted and him believing the protester was reaching to steal his weapon.

Or the Protester who leans onto the hood of a patrol vehicle moving like 5 MPH at most which is being framed as the SVU driving through a line of protesters.

People shouting "Hey he didn't do anything" to the police aren't going to help because there have been idiots before (years ago) who went up to officers and claimed they never saw anything and nothing happened only the people it happened too had video evidence of it happening.

200+ filmed. You found a couple to disagree with so now nobody has to care. You are not arguing in good faith.

 

[Samtemdo8]

I feel this thread should be retitled as "The George Floyd Crisis in America" or something along those lines since this situtaion has now brodened beyond the National Guard Called to Minneapolis.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Both, I’ll go with both. I’ve as much evidence as you have, and PB and Boogaloo types have talked a lot about using fireworks to scare protesters on telegram and various leaked chats. All leaked by Antifa anarchists, another major part of what they do.

Thing is AntiFA or at least Black Bloc have form using fireworks too

E.G. the Berkeley riots I think saw a number of them used.

Sow division and conspiracy. COINTELPRO 101.

I dunno getting rid of the bricks kind of suggest they don't want division or violence rather than they do want it.

Dude they do this monthly now, FBI’s had dozens of shootouts with these dudes as of late.

They have it with like 1 of them every 6 months who always gets described as a Lone Wolf who most people describe as a Loner with usually no evidence they did this as part of anything else other than acting alone not some complicated plot.

This is true for shooters that have done this for other reasons too.

200+ filmed. You found a couple to disagree with so now nobody has to care. You are not arguing in good faith.

Did you miss the part where I said a lot of them have merit?

I'm pointing out that perspective can matter and to not jump at every example as deliberate abuse and look at what's going on in a number of them.


A lot of them do see to be abuse of power.

Some of them however seeing things from another perspective it wasn't Malice as such it as acting a they believed needed from their perspective and to keep that in mind.

To be CLEAR


Macing peaceful protesters = BAd

Detaining the person you thought was reaching for your Gun = probably a good move to do until you are shown evidence they weren't trying that and then you release them.

 

[Revnak]

Thing is AntiFA or at least Black Bloc have form using fireworks too

E.G. the Berkeley riots I think saw a number of them used.

I don’t find that any more convincing.

I dunno getting rid of the bricks kind of suggest they don't want division or violence rather than they do want it.

Does filming removing them do that? Yes.

They have it with like 1 of them every 6 months who always gets described as a Lone Wolf who most people describe as a Loner with usually no evidence they did this as part of anything else other than acting alone not some complicated plot.

This is true for shooters that have done this for other reasons too.

Nah, been way more common after Christchurch, they just catch most of them first, as they did here. And Boogaloo boys tend to work in small groups, which is why they’ve universally gotten caught.

Did you miss the part where I said a lot of them have merit?

I'm pointing out that perspective can matter and to not jump at every example as deliberate abuse and look at what's going on in a number of them.


A lot of them do see to be abuse of power.

Some of them however seeing things from another perspective it wasn't Malice as such it as acting a they believed needed from their perspective and to keep that in mind.

To be CLEAR


Macing peaceful protesters = BAd

Detaining the person you thought was reaching for your Gun = probably a good move to do until you are shown evidence they weren't trying that and then you release them.

When you tell a man to shoot any threat and that their communities are out to get them, they’ll think that more often.
Further, I’m not getting into this case by case shit

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

I don’t find that any more convincing.

Guess we wait until the guy is picked up I mean his car is on film and so that plate will be registered somewhere.

Does filming removing them do that? Yes.

Not really it implies there are people trying to divide people by turning the Peaceful Protests violent and seemingly saying it's not OK and people don't want this.

I mean protesters have filed the brick piles in other places too so

Nah, been way more common after Christchurch, they just catch most of them first, as they did here. And Boogaloo boys tend to work in small groups, which is why they’ve universally gotten caught.

Was that the guy whose mianifesto was filled with buzwords and memes to get attention?

When you tell a man to shoot any threat and that their communities are out to get them, they’ll think that more often.
Further, I’m not getting into this case by case shit

Except in some cases it does seem like threat (E.G. seemingly reaching for your belt / weapon). If it's peacefully protesting sure but Police often can't risk taking that chance and have to assume the worst in some cases.

In a lot of the videos it's abuse of power. In some you have to try and look at it from other perspectives and understand why they acted because they couldn't take the chance as such.

 

[Revnak]

A reminder of what less than lethal means.

 

[Revnak]

Not really it implies there are people trying to divide people by turning the Peaceful Protests violent and seemingly saying it's not OK and people don't want this.

I mean protesters have filed the brick piles in other places too so

Dude you literally have talked more about these fucking bricks than basically anything else because they keep getting filmed and not used and are trying to figure out which Antifa terrorists did it to excise them from society. It’s doing its fucking job and you’re living proof. Next.

Was that the guy whose mianifesto was filled with buzwords and memes to get attention?

That’s every manifesto they write. You know fuck all about fascism and I’m glad Antifa exists to know about them and track them if you represent the median understanding of fascists in this country.

Except in some cases it does seem like threat (E.G. seemingly reaching for your belt / weapon). If it's peacefully protesting sure but Police often can't risk taking that chance and have to assume the worst in some cases.

In a lot of the videos it's abuse of power. In some you have to try and look at it from other perspectives and understand why they acted because they couldn't take the chance as such.

Yes. Apply skepticism to the boot on your neck and they may give you a chance to kick it before you die. Something you’re utterly unwilling to lend to... anyone else.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

A reminder of what less than lethal means.

As I said before.

Until taser round become self contained units then the present kit is what they have really as Tasers tend to work better on smaller groups.

Also even then they carry their own risks.

They're likely less harmful methods than the police just beating on people as they would in the old days (and some assholes in the force still do).

Everything has risks pretty much and removing the tools entirely would cause major issues in handling things.

Yes some cops are misusing the rounds etc but it's the officers misusing them that are the issue more than the rounds themselves.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Dude you literally have talked more about these fucking bricks than basically anything else because they keep getting filmed and not used and are trying to figure out which Antifa terrorists did it to excise them from society. It’s doing its fucking job and you’re living proof. Next.

Maybe, and I'm just throwing this out there but the kind of people who deliberately try to start violence by planting these things about and mysteriously being the ones to rush and grab and make everyone aware of them (as one video I posted showed people doing). They're not the kind of people you want to walk side by side with. The same goes for any White supremacist asshole trying to attack people and start shit.

That’s every manifesto they write. You know fuck all about fascism and I’m glad Antifa exists to know about them and track them if you represent the median understanding of fascists in this country.

I dunno seems you know little about Fascism if you think AntiFA are the ones truly fighting them.

Yes. Apply skepticism to the boot on your neck and they may give you a chance to kick it before you die. Something you’re utterly unwilling to lend to... anyone else.

No apply this thing called empathy to try and understand the actions of other human being and try to see them as human beings who acted as they saw fit believing they were doing the right thing rather than monster just because you really want to think you're fighting some giant evil monsters.

 

[Revnak]

As I said before.

Until taser round become self contained units then the present kit is what they have really as Tasers tend to work better on smaller groups.

Also even then they carry their own risks.

They're likely less harmful methods than the police just beating on people as they would in the old days (and some assholes in the force still do).

Everything has risks pretty much and removing the tools entirely would cause major issues in handling things.

Yes some cops are misusing the rounds etc but it's the officers misusing them that are the issue more than the rounds themselves.

She’s dead. She died because police are abusing tear gas to disperse peaceful protests. In Columbus (where she went to school and therefore likely where she died) a last second curfew was implemented, two hours before it started and the first the city had implemented. It’s both entirely reasonable she didn’t know about it, and true that these methods were used before curfew anyway. These have been regularly implemented on peaceful protests so police can disperse crowds. You have zero evidence she did anything to deserve a horrible death. The police could approach these communities in many ways other than throwing tear gas and flash bangs into protesting crowds, something that is entirely legal. There are many other tactics to deal with this they could choose. They chose the show of force, the one that makes them feel powerful. They chose to kill her, as they choose to kill so many others. They are terrorists.

 

[Revnak]

Maybe, and I'm just throwing this out there but the kind of people who deliberately try to start violence by planting these things about and mysteriously being the ones to rush and grab and make everyone aware of them (as one video I posted showed people doing). They're not the kind of people you want to walk side by side with. The same goes for any White supremacist asshole trying to attack people and start shit.

I’d rather march with any anarchist of even the most absurd ideology than a cop loving liberal. At least they see on some level who the enemy is and will care if I die to them.

I dunno seems you know little about Fascism if you think AntiFA are the ones truly fighting them.

You follow Andy Ngo who literally helped fascists plan an assault on innocent people. I know more about them than you do genius.

No apply this thing called empathy to try and understand the actions of other human being and try to see them as human beings who acted as they saw fit believing they were doing the right thing rather than monster just because you really want to think you're fighting some giant evil monsters.

Something you’re exclusively granting cops. I get being on the wrong side of an important conflict and getting indoctrinated to kill and abuse as a moral virtue. I’d still scream about Nazis being wrong. I still scream about cops being wrong. Their mindset, their actions, all wrong and part of a system of terrible abuse that must be rectified.

 

[Hawki]

Much like whether we're inherently artistic, or religious, curious, etc. Clearly it's all part of the mix of humanity, but it's not perhaps quite the right way to think about the issue.

We're probably more innately some things than others.

Violence clearly predates art and religion for instance. Even the existence of art, I've heard people suggest that art is simply a coping mechanism for humans. For instance, across continents and cultures, it's common to find hand prints, so there's seemingly something innate about art in the human condition. That may give you warm and fuzzy feelings, but under the theory that the only reason that this is the case is that we're all terrified of death, and want to leave something behind? Yeah.

 

[Revnak]

We're probably more innately some things than others.

Violence clearly predates art and religion for instance. Even the existence of art, I've heard people suggest that art is simply a coping mechanism for humans. For instance, across continents and cultures, it's common to find hand prints, so there's seemingly something innate about art in the human condition. That may give you warm and fuzzy feelings, but under the theory that the only reason that this is the case is that we're all terrified of death, and want to leave something behind? Yeah.

That’s impossible to prove. To the best of our knowledge all three are as old as our species, because many of the traits that differ between us and our ancestors would be naturally selected through the existence of all of them.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

She’s dead. She died because police are abusing tear gas to disperse peaceful protests. In Columbus (where she went to school and therefore likely where she died) a last second curfew was implemented, two hours before it started and the first the city had implemented. It’s both entirely reasonable she didn’t know about it, and true that these methods were used before curfew anyway. These have been regularly implemented on peaceful protests so police can disperse crowds. You have zero evidence she did anything to deserve a horrible death. The police could approach these communities in many ways other than throwing tear gas and flash bangs into protesting crowds, something that is entirely legal. There are many other tactics to deal with this they could choose. They chose the show of force, the one that makes them feel powerful. They chose to kill her, as they choose to kill so many others. They are terrorists.

I didn't say she deserved it.
I didn't say it was fine she died.
As you pointed out here it appears the Police acting inappropriately.
Shall I leave you to argue with your strawman?

They Police could approach these communities the issue is they still have to have the kit on hand incase things change. In case it's needed.

Peaceful protesters aren't the problem and I've been trying to very much make a clear distinction between them and those causing trouble.

I’d rather march with any anarchist of even the most absurd ideology than a cop loving liberal. At least they see on some level who the enemy is and will care if I die to them.

I'd rather not march with a guy who'd pull a gun on a cop and try to end an innocent officers life just because he couldn't see them as a human and who ends uprisking others lives because he thinks he's being a revolutionary.

You follow Andy Ngo who literally helped fascists plan an assault on innocent people. I know more about them than you do genius.

1) I actually don't follow him
2) I'm guessing this is in relation to the strange claims of him doxxing a person because he happened to catch them on video at an event or something?

Something you’re exclusively granting cops. I get being on the wrong side of an important conflict and getting indoctrinated to kill and abuse as a moral virtue. I’d still scream about Nazis being wrong. I still scream about cops being wrong. Their mindset, their actions, all wrong and part of a system of terrible abuse that must be rectified.

Nope not exclusive to cops. It's just hard to see how anyone burning down pharmacies or low cost housing is anything other than somewhat delusional and centred only in their own interests.

I don't need to pretend I'm on the right side here while also justifying any action against police as "they probably deserved it" or something like that. There are not 2 sides here and you must pick one or the other. There are 3 and the side I'm on condemns cops misuse or abuse of their tool but also condemns the rioters an looters or those who see Cops as less than human or less worthy of life too.

How is rectifying a system when the target merely changes but the attitudes and actions barely charge?

 

[Hawki]

That’s impossible to prove. To the best of our knowledge all three are as old as our species, because many of the traits that differ between us and our ancestors would be naturally selected through the existence of all of them.

I strongly doubt that all three are equally as old.

All animals engage in violence to some form or another. Mammals are certainly no exception to this. For them to be equally as old, as soon as human species emerged, we'd have to immediately start producing art and conjuring up religion.

 

[MrCalavera]

We're probably more innately some things than others.

Violence clearly predates art and religion for instance. Even the existence of art, I've heard people suggest that art is simply a coping mechanism for humans. For instance, across continents and cultures, it's common to find hand prints, so there's seemingly something innate about art in the human condition. That may give you warm and fuzzy feelings, but under the theory that the only reason that this is the case is that we're all terrified of death, and want to leave something behind? Yeah.

Abstract thinking. Same abstract thinking allows us to come up with other reasons for violence, than those regulated by natural instincts.

OT, this is kinda funny, but:
So i suppose FBI does this to target the dreaded Antifa, but what kind of answer can you give about "anti-fascist sentiments"?

 

[Revnak]

I didn't say she deserved it.
I didn't say it was fine she died.
As you pointed out here it appears the Police acting inappropriately.
Shall I leave you to argue with your strawman?

They Police could approach these communities the issue is they still have to have the kit on hand incase things change. In case it's needed.

Peaceful protesters aren't the problem and I've been trying to very much make a clear distinction between them and those causing trouble.

The problem is the cops

I'd rather not march with a guy who'd pull a gun on a cop and try to end an innocent officers life just because he couldn't see them as a human and who ends uprisking others lives because he thinks he's being a revolutionary.

So you would not march with the (Maoist Revolutionary anti-cop) Panthers? Thanks. They’re my heroes. Glad I can disregard you now.

1) I actually don't follow him
2) I'm guessing this is in relation to the strange claims of him doxxing a person because he happened to catch them on video at an event or something?

Literally nobody looks up anything on this grifting shit before believing him, huh? Mayday Cider Riots, his video of him joking around with the Proud Boys before they attacked people is what got them in legal trouble, video he would not release until forced and publicly lied about to protect them.

Nope not exclusive to cops. It's just hard to see how anyone burning down pharmacies or low cost housing is anything other than somewhat delusional and centred only in their own interests.

I don't need to pretend I'm on the right side here while also justifying any action against police as "they probably deserved it" or something like that. There are not 2 sides here and you must pick one or the other. There are 3 and the side I'm on condemns cops misuse or abuse of their tool but also condemns the rioters an looters or those who see Cops as less than human or less worthy of life too.

How is rectifying a system when the target merely changes but the attitudes and actions barely charge?

How is it rectifying the system to have the same cops do break rules following near identical training but we did an investigation? How is the system changed by doing fuck all, again, and lying that we’re better so Suburban liberals can sleep at night?
You grant so much empathy to the cops brutalizing the public, murdering innocents, and getting away with it, but call those who have become so utterly furious at this reality false actors, greedy rioters, or delusional. The cops are scared and poorly trained, the people cannot be afraid, they cannot be angry. The violence of the state is as natural as the air, the violence of the people created by the delusional or by conspiracy. You are lying. Perhaps not knowingly, but actually. Your understanding, your framing of society is deceptive. The police did this. Perhaps, yes, as a natural expression of the system, but so to must we communicate the error of that system, in the direct, predictable way. Sometimes that is protest, and sometimes that will be property damage. Often that will be damage to police property. But if we are to assume that the violence of the police is an inevitable expression of this system, then so too is the “violence” (I hesitate to call the majority of property damage violence, and will never equate it to permanent injury or death) against it an inevitable expression of how wrong that system is.

 

[Revnak]

I’ll explain why I am going to bat for literally any expression of frustration with the cops because it seems this isn’t obvious. I currently feel we’re in a Weimar Republic speedrun and the center and left deciding to square off first is how the Nazis won. I don’t care what you’re looting, I will stand by you. I don’t care if you’re a suburban lib, I will stand by you. But if your answer is to sow discord between those two, you are an idiot and I will call that out.
Edit- as evidence of my seriousness here, I plan to vote for Biden now.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

I’ll explain why I am going to bat for literally any expression of frustration with the cops because it seems this isn’t obvious. I currently feel we’re in a Weimar Republic speedrun and the center and left deciding to square off first is how the Nazis won. I don’t care what you’re looting, I will stand by you. I don’t care if you’re a suburban lib, I will stand by you. But if your answer is to sow discord between those two, you are an idiot and I will call that out.

I mean, what is the purpose of looting here? On the face of it it does not sound like it's a principled thing or someone who is an ally to the cause so much as someone who saw an opportunity. I just don't really care to focus on them since it does feel like a distraction.