Our Covid Response

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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A profiteer to whom I can agree we should be skeptical.
My wife made a comment about narcissists. Narcissists love to be the centre of attention, and so when something like covid explodes and grips everyone's attention, it's consequently going to draw narcissists like a moth to a flame, because they find the allure of a piece of that attention impossible to miss up - even if they are profoundly unqualified to usefully contribute. I find this an interesting hypothesis for why there are so many wankers talking about covid over the last 18 months.

You know you have to be suspicious at a man who calls himself the inventor of the optical mouse and makes sure everyone knows all about it, despite the fact he was at best only one of the people who invented an optical mouse about that time, and whose design was evidently inferior to competitors such that it doesn't seem to have made him any money. (He actually made his money as an investor in some middlingly successful web companies, which sounds much less impressive.) It's like but not as bad as that guy who claims he invented email, not because he invented email as we understand it, but because he invented an early email-like software package that he called "EMAIL".
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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You clearly don't appreciate that the world is cleanly divided between masters and slaves, and any rhetoric that equates the two is capitalistic propaganda. /s
Yes, how silly of us to point out that being able to keep the surplus profit of a business is vastly different than merely working at a business for a wage. Clearly, we are the morons in this situation.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Yes, how silly of us to point out that being able to keep the surplus profit of a business is vastly different than merely working at a business for a wage. Clearly, we are the morons in this situation.
I'm glad to see you are finally starting to understand.

You see what you don't understand about this whole "Starting a business thing" Is that unlike that employee who you think is making shit wages, the "owner" is busting their ass off AND taking all the risk. Did the employee put their house on the line for a business? If business is slow does that employee have to worry about the shop closing down? Does the employee have to pay the building's rent? Buy the supplies? Pay the gas bill? Electric bill?

No, the employee gets to go home worry free and B**** about how much they hate their job without carrying any of the responsibility of caring for that business. Not to mention the vast majority of small business owners are in that business 6+ days a week husslin they asses off to make it work. You think Gordon Ramsey didn't grind for his restaurants? Sure the man aint gotta grind in a kitchen these days, but that mother fucker is still grinding every fucking day, between running his company AND do like 83 TV shows. But you gonna sit there and call him the asshole for making all that money he is earning? Me thinks you might wanna just check yourself.
 
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Cheetodust

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No, the employee gets to go home worry free
if they're not earning a living wage then they're not going home worry free. Not everyone can start a business because businesses need workers to function. You keep shitting on about wealth and success when literally all we're saying is a full time job should net you enough to have your basic fucking needs met and you disagree with that
 

TheMysteriousGX

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I'm glad to see you are finally starting to understand.

You see what you don't understand about this whole "Starting a business thing" Is that unlike that employee who you think is making shit wages, the "owner" is busting their ass off AND taking all the risk. Did the employee put their house on the line for a business? If business is slow does that employee have to worry about the shop closing down? Does the employee have to pay the building's rent? Buy the supplies? Pay the gas bill? Electric bill?

No, the employee gets to go home worry free and B**** about how much they hate their job without carrying any of the responsibility of caring for that business. Not to mention the vast majority of small business owners are in that business 6+ days a week husslin they asses off to make it work. You think Gordon Ramsey didn't grind for his restaurants? Sure the man aint gotta grind in a kitchen these days, but that mother fucker is still grinding every fucking day, between running his company AND do like 83 TV shows. But you gonna sit there and call him the asshole for making all that money he is earning? Me thinks you might wanna just check yourself.
Lmao, I just quit a small business job that was spiraling down the drain due to gross incompetence. The fact that you're describing missing paychecks, rising debt, and unemployment as "worry free" is fucking hilarious. I might not be declaring bankruptcy due to fucking up a capital investment of more money than I make in years, but my roommate in the same boat is looking at bankruptcy for a single hospital visit so I don't give a shit.
 

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
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I'm glad to see you are finally starting to understand.

You see what you don't understand about this whole "Starting a business thing" Is that unlike that employee who you think is making shit wages, the "owner" is busting their ass off AND taking all the risk. Did the employee put their house on the line for a business? If business is slow does that employee have to worry about the shop closing down? Does the employee have to pay the building's rent? Buy the supplies? Pay the gas bill? Electric bill?
Yes but they have also gone into this arrangement of their own free will, after what would surely be a long period of soul searching, preparing and researching. And if they're smart, a few safety nets so they can recoup their losses.

No, the employee gets to go home .
And be not unreasonably worried that their already meagre income is about to be, through no fault of their own, taken away from them and be unable to pay their rent, buy their supplies, pay their gas bills, and pay their electricity bills.
 

CriticalGaming

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Yes but they have also gone into this arrangement of their own free will, after what would surely be a long period of soul searching, preparing and researching. And if they're smart, a few safety nets so they can recoup their losses.
And so did the employee who applied for the job and agreed to the wage. Responsibility is on both sides. You expect subway to pay someone 50k a year to make 10 dollar sandwiches? Where is the money coming from? Because you all have said that an increase in wages to a "livable" degree wouldnt cause prices to go up. So how where is the money coming from?

Jobs pay what they are worth and what is affordable to the owner of the business. The employee agrees to that pay rate and that is the end of it. If the employee needs more, get a different job or a second one.

And if you are still making minimum wage into your late 20s and 30s then you fucked up somewhere along the way that aint the 1% keeping you down, it is yourself.

Nobody DSP's their way into homelessness. It is what Yahtzee has named a "cock-up cascade". Alcoholism, drugs, bad choices, any number of reasons.

And lets say for argument we agreed to pay a livable wage? Who determines what a livable wage is? A single person's livable wage is much lower than a married person with two incomes. Or what about someone with a kid, a kid alone dramatically increases what a livable wage is. So do you just automatically get a raise while working the McDonald's drive thru because you had a kid?
 

Buyetyen

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You expect subway to pay someone 50k a year to make 10 dollar sandwiches?
We expect them to pay enough to pay the bills. This has been repeated to you several times, yet you keep strawmanning it, and I think we all know why.

Where is the money coming from? Because you all have said that an increase in wages to a "livable" degree wouldnt cause prices to go up. So how where is the money coming from?
From customers, dummy. Same place it always came from. Jesus Christ, how do you not know this?

Jobs pay what they are worth and what is affordable to the owner of the business. The employee agrees to that pay rate and that is the end of it. If the employee needs more, get a different job or a second one.
People taking extra jobs is also bad for the economy.

And if you are still making minimum wage into your late 20s and 30s then you fucked up somewhere along the way that aint the 1% keeping you down, it is yourself.
And again, we see that all you really want is somebody you can shit in.

Nobody DSP's their way into homelessness. It is what Yahtzee has named a "cock-up cascade". Alcoholism, drugs, bad choices, any number of reasons.
Yes, any number of reasons except the malfeasance of the capitalist class. They are blameless, holy creatures who must be venerated for their superior work ethic.
 

Cheetodust

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Nobody DSP's their way into homelessness. It is what Yahtzee has named a "cock-up cascade". Alcoholism, drugs, bad choices, any number of reasons.
Absolutely fuck that. My rent in 2011 was 350 euro a month for a room in a 5 bedroom house with my brother and two friends. Now my girlfriend and I pay 1650 a month for a one bed apartment. Which would have cost 600 or so back then. Rent prices have fucking ballooned to ridiculous levels and wages have stagnated. If you actually think that people haven't just been priced out of affording a home you've just proven that you're completely thoughtless.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Absolutely fuck that. My rent in 2011 was 350 euro a month for a room in a 5 bedroom house with my brother and two friends. Now my girlfriend and I pay 1650 a month for a one bed apartment. Which would have cost 600 or so back then. Rent prices have fucking ballooned to ridiculous levels and wages have stagnated. If you actually think that people haven't just been priced out of affording a home you've just proven that you're completely thoughtless.
I've said multiple times that we should absolutely have some regulations in regards to rent caps.

I swear you people only ever read half of what someone says because if you actually paid attention you'd see that I think these are indeed problems but need to be approached from a different angle. The wage isn't the problem, it's the fact that necessary amenities have been allowed to balloon in cost unchecked and unmitigated. I'm on your side of the highway, except I'm in the carpool lane. Come on pay attention.


From customers, dummy. Same place it always came from. Jesus Christ, how do you not know this?
From customers paying a higher price you mean. Yes that is what would have to happen. But you'd also have to convince the public to pay $20 for a hamburger from a fast food place.
 

Buyetyen

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From customers paying a higher price you mean. Yes that is what would have to happen. But you'd also have to convince the public to pay $20 for a hamburger from a fast food place.
Prices would go up fractionally, not exponentially, child. And when people have a higher disposable income, they're going to spend it. I'll just put math on the list of things you don't understand.
 
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Cheetodust

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I've said multiple times that we should absolutely have some regulations in regards to rent caps.
You also said that people only become homeless because of a cavalcade of fuck ups! Jesus fucking christ. Countless people have been priced out of being able to afford a place to live because of skyrocketing rents and no bad decisions of their own. My rent has increased by more than double. In less than a decade. Whether or not you think high rents are bad is completely irrelevant to the fact that you believe homelessness is entirely self inflicted.

You seriously can't even keep up with your own bullshit anymore. It's just like your earlier bullshit. With Bezos being self made but the fact that he isn't is irrelevant. Everything you say and believe contradicts something else you have said or believe because ultimately you'll tie yourself in knots as long as you get to remain firmly planted on the idea that poor people don't deserve any better.

The fucking worst part of it all? When my rent was 350 a month I was earning minimum wage. And it was still more affordable than this time last year when I was in literally the most senior management position in the company I worked for. I spent thousands on education and training, nearly doubled my yearly income from 2012 but guess what? Rent was 2.3x what it was back then.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Prices would go up fractionally, not exponentially, child. And when people have a higher disposable income, they're going to spend it. I'll just put math on the list of things you don't understand.
Ok let's do some math, math is fun.

Using my Subway store as an example, using some general statistics with what subway has reported.

Subway sells 7.6 million sandwiches a day across over 41,000 location. They don't have an exact number of locations because they are always opening more, so let's use a little bit of general rounding.

8 million sandwiches per day / 41,000 is about 195 sandwiches made per store everyday.

Now the average sandwich costs between $4-9.50 on average. So let's round up and say $10 average.

195 sandwiches a day times 10 bucks a sandwich, means the store is making $1950 per day. (they aren't this is a WIDE swinging number so remember that)

1950 per day over 365 days a year means that ONE subway location brings in about $730K a year. Let's say you need 8 total employee's making a "livable" wage of 50K/year to work every day spliting the day into two separate shifts, four people per shift. That's immediately $400K out of that $730K, which means you have $330k to pay for your bills, the business rent, the food supplies, etc. Which according to what I could find a subway restaurant costs between 162-307k per year to operate.

So I how much using this theoretically example would a subway need to increase sandwich prices? Considering my example is extremely understaffed, and very generalized. According to https://www.eposnow.com/us/resources/how-much-do-franchise-owners-make/ with the actually income of a subway store only being about $400k/year which is 330k LESS than even my averaging out example and the OWNER of a subway restaurant only makes about $40k per year. Which is considerably less than your general "livable" wage estimate.

Ok so we have to reverse the math now right? So let's say we need the customer to give us $330K more per year in order to come close to supporting the wages of the employees you want (remember we are under staffing the restaurant).

So we can do this in two ways. We can either increase the number of sandwiches per day. So to do that we $330K/365 which means we have to make an additional $905 a day, or tack on another 91 sandwiches per day. Now that we know that we have to take 905 and divide that by 195 sandwiches per day to get $4.64 price increase for every sandwich.

Now you can scoff and go, "Pfft that's just 5 bucks more, no big deal." But that is HUGE. It's an increase of nearly 50%! Now increase the price of EVERYTHING 50% and look what happens. Think about it this way. you go from making $30k/year to $50K that's an overall increase of 66% which is nice that's a nice jump isn't it. But in order to compensate for the increase in wages, the value of those wages goes down because the cost of everything goes up. And then you are left with MAYBE a 16% jump. Effectively making that increase look crazy good, to only equaling an extra $4800 bucks in your pocket, which last I checked isn't enough to pay rent for 6 months.

Don't you think we'd be better served by simply making housing and healthcare needs affordable for everyone instead of trying to balloon an economy artificially?

And you still didn't answer my question as to who decides what's a livable wage in the first fucking place. Because all you people wanna do is call me an asshole and say "Just give people money!" which aint an answer not a solution to a goddamn thing.
 

Cheetodust

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Subway earning so little may have more to do with Subway than anything else. Child molesting mascot, bread that isn't legally bread and tuna that isn't genetically tuna.
 

CriticalGaming

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Subway earning so little may have more to do with Subway than anything else. Child molesting mascot, bread that isn't legally bread and tuna that isn't genetically tuna.
How about a Mcdonald's making 150k in profits in a year?
 

CriticalGaming

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I mean the sports scientist in me is saying "good". And also opening a McDonald's franchise has basically always been a scam so people should maybe stop doing it.
So fuck those 630,000 people who work there? And ya'll want to talk to me about not caring about folks? You harsh as fuck my guy.