Funny events in anti-woke world

Hades

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2013
2,369
1,802
118
Country
The Netherlands
Republicans don't think Democrats are evil. Well, some of the politicians are, but that's cause they're politicians, not cause they're Democrats. Republicans think Democrats are naive, or ignorant, or sometimes just plain stupid.
This becomes a bit hard to maintain when most of the policy ideas that Republicans find so naive, ignorant or stupid already work out swimmingly in every country outside the US. It becomes even harder to maintain when we realize that most Republican led state are essentially third world countries and that however flawed the blue states are they are usually at least not that.

Republicans also no longer have the right to call the other side stupid when they've gone four long years(nd counting) of celebrating stupidity. They glorified the stupidity of Trumpism. A party can't all but deify Donald Trump and then say the other side lacks intelligence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thaluikhain

Avnger

Trash Goblin
Legacy
Apr 1, 2016
2,124
1,251
118
Country
United States
Republicans also no longer have the right to call the other side stupid when they've gone four long years(nd counting) of celebrating stupidity. They glorified the stupidity of Trumpism. A party can't all but deify Donald Trump and then say the other side lacks intelligence.
Just going to point out again that tstorm recognizes Trump's stupidity. He just rationalizes it by calling Trump a Democrat and all of his Republican supporters as secret Democrats. It's a "the card says moops" skit but the card doesn't even say moops, and he actually believes it.
 

Terminal Blue

Elite Member
Legacy
Feb 18, 2010
3,923
1,792
118
Country
United Kingdom
Being completely and utterly insignificant in the grand scheme of things is neither.
So, I have a friend who is a classicist, and he pointed out to me that there's an element that I think people often miss about Lovecraft's writing that kind of helps to make sense of it, and that is the obvious familiarity with the Bacchae. Like, there are passages in Lovecraft's work which are almost direct quotes from the Bacchae.

The Bacchae was not well known until the late 19th century, because it didn't really fit in with the Victorian idea of ancient Greece as the rational birthplace of western civilization. By Lovecraft's time, it was starting to be performed again. The Bacchae is the story of the god Dionysus returning to the city of his birth and inflicting this horrific series of punishments on its ruling family (for denying his divinity). A recurring theme is that Dionysus' presence drives people, especially women, into ecstatic madness which they cannot control. The climax of the play is the king of the city being torn limb from limb by his own mother while he pleads with her to recognize him. At the very end, the chorus explains that the gods often bring misfortune, and that it is impossible to predict their actions.

The point is that lovecraft isn't really about literally being afraid of space, or of monsters with big tentacles. It's about the fear that your life is not under your own control, that everything you think you are is just an illusion that can be taken away. It's about the fear that there is something incomprehensible and alien inside you that your conscious mind is incapable of understanding. The monsters in lovecraft aren't just big gribbly squids, they're things that are so outside your understanding that merely trying to wrap your head around them changes you, it takes away your capacity for reason, it makes you less human.

You're correct that the abstract concept of "being insignificant in the grand scheme of things" isn't very scary, but what Lovecraft definately finds extremely scary is the idea of having no control over your own existence, of being not just insignificant but so powerless that you are entirely at the mercy of a universe that does not care about you. Of having no stable foundation, of never being able to know who you are because you are nothing.

The thing is Lovecraft was a weird person. He was incredibly neurotic, and had an overpowering fear that there was something wrong with him (because his father was sent to a psychiatric hospital). I think one thing about his work that can be alienating (and that I certainly find alienating) is that "otherness" is always evil (and also heavily racialized but that's a whole other fucking discussion). To me, I feel like a lot of modern "Lovecraftian" media is doing Lovecraft better than Lovecraft himself, because they don't embrace his weird fixation on purity and order as good and chaos and otherness as evil.

Another thing my classicist friend pointed out is that while Lovecraft views cultists as these wretched, subhuman creatures (basically, the way he saw anyone who wasn't white) the cultists generally seem to be doing okay. Like, maybe it's not such a bad thing to be a bit mad in a mad universe. Maybe you should go a bit easy on yourself and just accept that the universe is big and scary and outside of your control. See, the Bacchae isn't a play about how evil Dionysus is, it's a play performed in honour of Dionysus. For the Greeks, Dionysus represented something real about the universe and human nature, something that they found scary and troubling but which nonetheless existed and needed to be acknowledged. The Greeks didn't see people as fully in control of their own lives, they saw themselves as playthings of amoral forces that didn't really care about them, and they were fine with that.
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
9,121
3,071
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
Manufacturing problems to shame people for is a dramatically bigger problem.
Pretending events didn't happen is manufacturing

It's why you keep complaining about 'shame'. Because you don't want events to be a problem.

What you're asking for is like asking Gacy to be his own juror in his own trial.
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
9,121
3,071
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
Just going to point out again that tstorm recognizes Trump's stupidity. He just rationalizes it by calling Trump a Democrat and all of his Republican supporters as secret Democrats. It's a "the card says moops" skit but the card doesn't even say moops, and he actually believes it.
I mean, that's not going to work on me. I think Biden's doing a terrible job. I think HE'S blamed a lot of other people for his own failures. I'm just not going to get push back from people here for saying that. There aren't that many people up Biden's ass enough
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Sep 16, 2014
8,514
7,106
118
Country
United States
Conservatives trying to censor the internet...again...because SESTA/FOSTA worked out so well

 

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
7,318
970
118
Country
USA
This becomes a bit hard to maintain when most of the policy ideas that Republicans find so naive, ignorant or stupid already work out swimmingly in every country outside the US.
Excepts that's dramatically not true. The only half-truth is healthcare, and most countries' "universal healthcare" is a lot more limited than people care to admit. Almost everywhere else in the world has tougher immigration laws, stricter abortion laws, less social safety net, etc, etc, etc. These places you think are doing swimmingly have more in common with Republican policy positions than Democratic ones. They have voter id laws, they often have religious education in schools, the idea the Democrats are just trying to be like the rest of the world is a lie.
 

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
7,318
970
118
Country
USA
What you're asking for is like asking Gacy to be his own juror in his own trial.
I don't know if you've followed the discussion with multiple users across two threads, but Banks and Jordan just aren't the stated targets for the commission to investigate.
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Sep 16, 2014
8,514
7,106
118
Country
United States
Excepts that's dramatically not true. The only half-truth is healthcare, and most countries' "universal healthcare" is a lot more limited than people care to admit.
Yes, that's why non-USA people often react with horror when they learn how our healthcare system works. Because it's so damn open.
 

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
7,318
970
118
Country
USA
Yes, that's why non-USA people often react with horror when they learn how our healthcare system works. Because it's so damn open.
Nearly every nation with universal healthcare has a multi-tiered system where the poor use free services and the rich pay for healthcare, either through a standardized system that operates that way or by the cruel reality that government facilities don't always provide all forms of healthcare at reliable quality and people with money choose to get care elsewhere, including in the US. It is a rhetorical technicality that makes the US unique, our government health programs are more comprehensive than most of the globe, just only available to the poorest, sickest, and oldest people, and it's hardly worth bragging about that another country offers cheap services to their rich healthy people too.

Which is not to say there aren't major issues with healthcare financing in the US, but the contrast between the US and everywhere else is ridiculously overblown.
 

Kwak

Elite Member
Sep 11, 2014
2,357
1,892
118
Country
4
Nearly every nation with universal healthcare has a multi-tiered system where the poor use free services and the rich pay for healthcare, either through a standardized system that operates that way or by the cruel reality that government facilities don't always provide all forms of healthcare at reliable quality and people with money choose to get care elsewhere, including in the US. It is a rhetorical technicality that makes the US unique, our government health programs are more comprehensive than most of the globe, just only available to the poorest, sickest, and oldest people, and it's hardly worth bragging about that another country offers cheap services to their rich healthy people too.

Which is not to say there aren't major issues with healthcare financing in the US, but the contrast between the US and everywhere else is ridiculously overblown.
1644302886325.png
 

Generals

Elite Member
May 19, 2020
571
305
68
Nearly every nation with universal healthcare has a multi-tiered system where the poor use free services and the rich pay for healthcare, either through a standardized system that operates that way or by the cruel reality that government facilities don't always provide all forms of healthcare at reliable quality and people with money choose to get care elsewhere, including in the US. It is a rhetorical technicality that makes the US unique, our government health programs are more comprehensive than most of the globe, just only available to the poorest, sickest, and oldest people, and it's hardly worth bragging about that another country offers cheap services to their rich healthy people too.

Which is not to say there aren't major issues with healthcare financing in the US, but the contrast between the US and everywhere else is ridiculously overblown.

What in the name of.... Let me take Belgium as an example, there is no medical care you won't be able to access. And the quality is quite reliable, just like in France for instance. What may put off some Americans though is that facilities often look like shit, because indeed we don't waste money on "marketing", so buildings are old, they don't contain fancy tv's and whatnot. But the medical equipment is top notch. And guess what, even if you're a foreigner and are NOT covered by our public health insurance it's still cheaper than in the US. There was an article once about an American who had his hip implant in Belgium for 14k$ while it would have cost him 100k$ in the US. The difference is beyond ludicrous, and the 14k$ is without any kind of government intervention.

And yes we do have private complementary insurance but even if you have those it would cost a fraction of the cost of US health insurances. And the complementary insurances are usually only necessary if you want single bedrooms when hospitalized or want to make a wider array of doctors "available" (as we have this thing called the standard tariff which is reimbursed and any doctor charging above that means you'll pay more out of your pocket, unless you have a good complementary insurance).

Also, our public hospitals are usually better than private clinics and that's because private clinics are all about €€€ and don't want to care for complicated and unprofitable cases.

What you seem to forget is that it's a big package. We don't just pay for people's healthcare through taxes, the government has also done everything it can to reduce the costs without affecting medical quality; opening markets for medication and medical material (meaning there is more competition than in ultra protectionist America), negotiating prices on a national level (=> more bargaining power) and also introducing this concept of a "standard tariff" which gives doctors a guidelines on the prices they should charge (and the advantage that if you respect the pricing as a doctor you can mention that you follow the standard tariff, and this will attract patients).
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
9,121
3,071
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
I don't know if you've followed the discussion with multiple users across two threads, but Banks and Jordan just aren't the stated targets for the commission to investigate.
So the analogy should be amended to Gacy's lover being on the jury. Fair enough

You know what, I know very little of Gacy sex life after being caught. How about this:

It would be like someone from Al-Qeada being on the jury for those 5 '9/11 planners' currently still at Gitmo. I'm sure they would be fair and balanced
 

Generals

Elite Member
May 19, 2020
571
305
68
Avnger got it covered.
So republicans think democrats (politicians) are stupid so they vote and blindly support the stupidest of democrats? How does that make sense?
I do wonder when you'll abandon this idea Trump is a democrat. I mean he ran as a Republican, was elected by republicans, he now has the full support of the republican base and party while on the other hand he's despised by democrats. You know, when it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck maybe it is a duck?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrCalavera

Satinavian

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 30, 2016
1,966
819
118
Another thing my classicist friend pointed out is that while Lovecraft views cultists as these wretched, subhuman creatures (basically, the way he saw anyone who wasn't white) the cultists generally seem to be doing okay. Like, maybe it's not such a bad thing to be a bit mad in a mad universe. Maybe you should go a bit easy on yourself and just accept that the universe is big and scary and outside of your control. See, the Bacchae isn't a play about how evil Dionysus is, it's a play performed in honour of Dionysus. For the Greeks, Dionysus represented something real about the universe and human nature, something that they found scary and troubling but which nonetheless existed and needed to be acknowledged. The Greeks didn't see people as fully in control of their own lives, they saw themselves as playthings of amoral forces that didn't really care about them, and they were fine with that.
Well, yes.

I wrote that all this stuff does not work for me. I certainly can achnowledge that Lovecraft had those fears and that some others share them. But it is like with e.g. arachnophobia (which i don't have). I can know that some people find those cute eight-legged animals scary but i can't feel it myself at all. And media based on this fear for effect falls pretty much flat for me. As does most Lovecraft stuff i have read/encountered so far. However i do have my own silly fears like probably most other people. It is just not these. The idea of powerlessness only drives me towards fatalism, not to agony about my place in the universe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrCalavera

Avnger

Trash Goblin
Legacy
Apr 1, 2016
2,124
1,251
118
Country
United States
I mean, that's not going to work on me. I think Biden's doing a terrible job. I think HE'S blamed a lot of other people for his own failures. I'm just not going to get push back from people here for saying that. There aren't that many people up Biden's ass enough
Not getting a disagreement from me. Biden is a poor president whose sole redeeming quality is not being Trump, the other 2020 election choice. He hasn't solved (and likely won't solve) any of the issues plaguing the country right now; on the other hand, he hasn't caused (and likely won't cause) any brand new issues to appear on his own.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thaluikhain

Avnger

Trash Goblin
Legacy
Apr 1, 2016
2,124
1,251
118
Country
United States
So republicans think democrats (politicians) are stupid so they vote and blindly support the stupidest of democrats? How does that make sense?
I do wonder when you'll abandon this idea Trump is a democrat. I mean he ran as a Republican, was elected by republicans, he now has the full support of the republican base and party while on the other hand he's despised by democrats. You know, when it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck maybe it is a duck?
In order:
Yes.
It doesn't.
He won't.
Impossible because that would mean critically examining other core beliefs about ducks, and that's just not allowed.
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
9,121
3,071
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
In order:
Yes.
It doesn't.
He won't.
Impossible because that would mean critically examining other core beliefs about ducks, and that's just not allowed.
Well, I would say that Trump USED to be a Dem. You know, how Dems used to be always racist and now they just usually not racist. That means their always racist. Also, it's not like either the Dems or the GOP are anti-business so some of it is just the two parties being mirrors. That's the best I can do
 

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
7,318
970
118
Country
USA
That's reddit, that person is probably 15 and making crap up for fake internet points. I don't know, I can't sleuth it, their account was suspended.
snip for word count
That's all lovely. I went ahead and did Wikipedia level reading on healthcare in Belgium, and can only imagine the horror people would react with if "For example, not paying contributions is one such exit and another is homelessness (social security is only available to people with an address)" was describing Medicaid. Also, your universal healthcare is you pay upfront and get reimbursed for most of it?

To be clear, US healthcare financing is a disaster, and I'm sure Belgium does a better job of that for many of the reasons you're saying, but what gets me is that oft repeated line that "every other nation has universal healthcare", when all that means is that every other nation has at minimum some money available to any citizen that covers some percentage of the cost of normal procedures. Americans are ignorant, left-wingers are no exception, and they imagine people everywhere else just walking into and out of the hospital without ever taking out their wallet because of the propaganda machine. People don't understand that "Medicare for All" would instantly be one of the most comprehensive and expansive universal health insurance programs on the planet, if not the most, and would still not actually solve many of the problems causing the high costs.
 

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
7,318
970
118
Country
USA
I do wonder when you'll abandon this idea Trump is a democrat.
That idea has never been a literal statement, but rather an assessment of his behavior. Trump was registered as a Democrat and was friends with Democratic politicians, and then used all the same tactics as them. The bullying, belligerent campaigning, the partisan villainizing, even the refusal to accept election results he doesn't like. The man is so close to being Lyndon Johnson 2.0, which if you know my position on Lyndon Johnson means that Trump is a giant douche. There is nothing Donald Trump has done that wasn't done by Democratic politicians before him, the only difference is that the media mobilized against Trump instead of in defense of him.