Your video game hot take(s) thread

[BrawlMan]

what video game system is the best

And when people start unfairly comparing video game genres, or look down on those who like/dislike them, or prefer something else.

@Old_Hunter_77, @Specter Von Baren, @hanselthecaretaker, @The Rogue Wolf can take a listen too.

I remember at an old Game Stop, that I used to go to, I met this other customer in 2018. I was there just finishing up a pre-order at the time, and he was doing something else. We got to talking about our favorite genres, and he got somewhat passive aggressive, because I told him I prefer linear and challenging games, over most sandbox games (He was a big Spider-Man PS4 fan too). He seemed to have this idea that all open world games are superior to any other games or linear games. While I tried to be nice, I straight up told him "Welcome to life dude, everyone likes different things. Just because you love something, does not make you superior to others taste. Like what you like, but be respectful. I don't look down or think differently of others, because they have alternate tastes in games." He tried to give me a yeah whatever attitude about it. It was pretty clear, he wanted yes men around him, or "friends" that agreed to everything he said. I hope he grew up at some point out of that phase.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

And when people start unfairly comparing video game genres, or look down on those who like/dislike them, or prefer something else.

@Old_Hunter_77, @Specter Von Baren, @hanselthecaretaker, @The Rogue Wolf can take a listen too.

I remember at an old Game Stop, that I used to go to, I met this other customer in 2018. I was there just finishing up a pre-order at the time, and he was doing something else. We got to talking about our favorite genres, and he got somewhat passive aggressive, because I told him I prefer linear and challenging games, over most sandbox games (He was a big Spider-Man PS4 fan too). He seemed to have this idea that all open world games are superior to any other games or linear games. While I tried to be nice, I straight up told him "Welcome to life dude, everyone likes different things. Just because you love something, does not make you superior to others taste. Like what you like, but be respectful. I don't look down or think differently of others, because they have alternate tastes in games." He tried to give me a yeah whatever attitude about it. It was pretty clear, he wanted yes men around him, or "friends" that agreed to everything he said. I hope he grew up at some point out of that phase.

I'm reminded of how I brought up music genres the other day on the forum. I don't like most rap or country music, with rap I just don't like the sound or tone of a lot of it, with country its more of a subject matter problem. However, I do still like some songs from those two genres like Long Black Train or Look Pimpin!. Even a genre of music that I absolutely detest, Thrash Metal, because it's incomprehensible screaming at the top of a person's lungs, I've STILL managed to find one song of the genre that I like We're Losing You.

When I was younger, I actually made it a point to play lots of different genres of games outside of my usual comfort zones. I used a justification that this was expanding my ideas and horizons for when I became a game designer (Which didn't work out) but opening myself up to giving things a shot expanded my ability to understand why people like different genres and what they want to get out of them.

People need to learn to chill. Even if one doesn't wish to actively pursue something doesn't mean it has no value or can't become valuable in the future, and just because someone likes something you don't doesn't mean you have to pick a fight with them or make assumptions about their character based on a tiny sliver of what makes them, them.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Obviously, I agree with these last two posts because we're all nice reasonable people here.
But my only slight amendment is I do have the idea of a connoisseur be wanting to try different things. Once you understand, appreciate and accept that different things are for different people and we all have different tastes and that's fine, I think if one considers oneself to be passionate about some for of art and entertainment they do owe it to themselves to step outside of their comfort zone or learn a bit about context.

Back the music example and country music- yeah, I used to "hate" it, as a city boy east coaster. But as I dug into rock music and its roots deeper and deeper, I ran into the likes of Hank Williams and Bob Wills and Buck Owens etc, and checked that stuff out for "historical curiosity" or whatever, and now I freaking love it. That's not to say you suck if you don't listen to Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys, it's to say that, like, how can someone who claims to be really into rock 'n' roll music not at least know what that is?

And so my "hot take" and questions here about video games and critics and what people say are along the same lines. I've become interested in the context of video games now that it's my 2nd favorite entertainment, and it's the biggest industry in the world. I started seeing its influence in movies, business, pop culture, music. So I wanna know what critics are saying and why. FromSoftware is a big part of that- I was like "why are people so obsessed with dying over and over and over again" until i finally bought in.

In conclusion, I guess- Bloodborne is like old-timey country music?

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Publishers no longer want to give a "slow burner" an opportunity to gather its audience.

Perhaps ironic or whatever that indy/small games have an advantage here.

This one little vampire themed game that they played on Hidden Gems recently that apparently had like thousands of positive reviews, and the game is just like walking around and letting the sprites shoot each other.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

We got to talking about our favorite genres, and he got somewhat passive aggressive, because I told him I prefer linear and challenging games, over most sandbox games (He was a big Spider-Man PS4 fan too). He seemed to have this idea that all open world games are superior to any other games or linear games. While I tried to be nice, I straight up told him "Welcome to life dude, everyone likes different things. Just because you love something, does not make you superior to others taste. Like what you like, but be respectful. I don't look down or think differently of others, because they have alternate tastes in games."

There's a little reminder you can give people like that: "There was a time you didn't even know your favorite thing existed. What if you'd been this closed-minded then?"

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Obviously, I agree with these last two posts because we're all nice reasonable people here.

Oh my sweet summer child.

Perhaps ironic or whatever that indy/small games have an advantage here.

This one little vampire themed game that they played on Hidden Gems recently that apparently had like thousands of positive reviews, and the game is just like walking around and letting the sprites shoot each other.

Hidden Gems Reviews on Youtube you mean?

 

[BrawlMan]

FromSoftware is a big part of that- I was like "why are people so obsessed with dying over and over and over again" until i finally bought in

That's nothing new. You just have various people who wasn't used to hard games loudly and constantly, act like it was the "new thing". Before that, it was the PS2 era of difficult games (Devil May Cry and & God Hand), and before that you had Ninja Gaiden (both of them) as measuring gaps of difficulty and what was the highest standard of a hard game. The measuring gap of you are going to die a lot and enjoy it.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

@Specter Von Baren:
> Hidden Gems Reviews on Youtube you mean?

No, every Tuesday KC and Jesse on Escapist stream some indy game, it's my favorite Escapist stream. Last week (IIRC) they did this game because Jesse just kept hearing about it.

@BrawlMan
Yeah like I've said before I'm well acquainted with old-school difficulty. It's just, at least for me (and I would wager others) there's a difference between old games being hard but you're a kid and it's important to you and your friends to beat them, and when you're an adult and you want to chill out after work or whatever.

For the latter, only a certain kind of masochist sees dying over and over to Owl Shinobi until you get the exact timing of his 3rd sword swing combo so you can land an Ichimonji and recover your stamina long enough to die to his second round to be "fun" or "relaxing" to wind down to after work.

Frankly I can't even imagine what this hypothetical person is who isn't used to hard games and then gets caught on one. I mean, who's playing FromSoftware games- people who already like them or are interested in them (or, yeah, people like me who see them as a return to my childhood of joyful suffering).

That's why indy and roguelike/metroidvania and difficulty all go together, or what I call the "Hollow Knight thing." It's the rare good kind of nostalgia, IMO- actual quality games made for an audience that wants it.

 

[BrawlMan]

Yeah like I've said before I'm well acquainted with old-school difficulty. It's just, at least for me (and I would wager others) there's a difference between old games being hard but you're a kid and it's important to you and your friends to beat them, and when you're an adult and you want to chill out after work or whatever

Yep. I'm not constantly on difficult games either. Sometimes I play certain games just to chill out and relax. Or by turning on the easier setting, if I feel like blazing through.

For the latter, only a certain kind of masochist sees dying over and over to Owl Shinobi until you get the exact timing of his 3rd sword swing combo so you can land an Ichimonji and recover your stamina long enough to die to his second round to be "fun" or "relaxing" to wind down to after work.

I've met quite a few in real life, and online that enjoy the type of thing.

Frankly I can't even imagine what this hypothetical person is who isn't used to hard games and then gets caught on one. I mean, who's playing FromSoftware games- people who already like them or are interested in them (or, yeah, people like me who see them as a return to my childhood of joyful suffering).

Adapt or die! Might controls everything!

That's why indy and roguelike/metroidvania and difficulty all go together, or what I call the "Hollow Knight thing." It's the rare good kind of nostalgia, IMO- actual quality games made for an audience that wants it.

I'm definitely not into those. I know that.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

> I'm definitely not into those [Hollow Knight types]. I know that.

Me, too. But... I'm occassionally drawn to them, because they look so cool and are often fun at first.
I am sitting here looking at Returnal now that I can play it. Critics love it. It looks hella sweet. But I know that at like 20th "starting over" I will suicide. A perfect game to play when on sale.

 

[BrawlMan]

> I'm definitely not into those [Hollow Knight types]. I know that.

Me, too. But... I'm occassionally drawn to them, because they look so cool and are often fun at first.
I am sitting here looking at Returnal now that I can play it. Critics love it. It looks hella sweet. But I know that at like 20th "starting over" I will suicide. A perfect game to play when on sale.

Returnal I will neeeeevvvvvvvveeeeerrrrrr play! Not even if the game were for free!

 

[CriticalGaming]

Open worlds do not make your game better.

There is nothing wrong with a Linear experience.

 

[BrawlMan]

Open worlds do not make your game better.

There is nothing wrong with a Linear experience.

Tell that to the "professionals" in the gaming sphere, the blind defenders, and those that are on top thinking they know better otherwise. I know this argument has been going on since at least the late 6th generation and early 7th generation, but I'm glad it's actually been dying down over the years. You still have loud, vocal minority, supporters who like to hate on everything that's not to their specific taste or anything linear, but most people realize you can have a engaging linear game. There's plenty of games from the mid 2010s, last year, and the year before last year proved it already. You just have another case of people acting like they know everything, or just want to hear themselves talk.

 

[Dalisclock]

Open worlds do not make your game better.

There is nothing wrong with a Linear experience.

*CRIES IN MGSV*

Seriously, yeah, the Open world in MGSV felt like a waste. While the FOX engine and it's moment to moment gameplay(plus the fact the enemies scaling their response to counter your tactics) were brilliant, the two huge maps in MSGV were really......eh. I mean, other then steal supply containers and give guards free balloon rides(WHEEEEEEE!!!!!), there wasn't much point other then fucking around for funsies.

While the earlier entries have their own issues for sure, that was a huge weakness for MGSV in particular the earlier games didn't have.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

*CRIES IN MGSV*

Seriously, yeah, the Open world in MGSV felt like a waste. While the FOX engine and it's moment to moment gameplay(plus the fact the enemies scaling their response to counter your tactics) were brilliant, the two huge maps in MSGV were really......eh. I mean, other then steal supply containers and give guards free balloon rides(WHEEEEEEE!!!!!), there wasn't much point other then fucking around for funsies.

While the earlier entries have their own issues for sure, that was a huge weakness for MGSV in particular the earlier games didn't have.

The wash for me though is, MGSV missions are made infinitely more replayable due to its drop-in structure. The prior games were fun rides, but there was only so much that could vary in terms of gameplay when it’s serving to story. Unfortunately V kinda went too far in the opposite direction with ambition, and of course, A-hole Konami also happened.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Open worlds do not make your game better.

There is nothing wrong with a Linear experience.

So where does what Yahtzee call a "ghost train" experience fit in? 'Cause he talks about that negatively, it seems... but it's also linear. Or is it a specific type of linear that is played out, like the open world?
I'm thinking about Guardians of the Galaxy, which is not open world, and is considered good... but also "disappointing" in sales, you know that whole news item.

I mean, yeah, trying to make any kind of "this how games should or shouldn't be" is not gonna end up anywhere good, except "no NFT's," that's a good rule.

 

[Casual Shinji]

*CRIES IN MGSV*

Seriously, yeah, the Open world in MGSV felt like a waste. While the FOX engine and it's moment to moment gameplay(plus the fact the enemies scaling their response to counter your tactics) were brilliant, the two huge maps in MSGV were really......eh. I mean, other then steal supply containers and give guards free balloon rides(WHEEEEEEE!!!!!), there wasn't much point other then fucking around for funsies.

While the earlier entries have their own issues for sure, that was a huge weakness for MGSV in particular the earlier games didn't have.

Ground Zeroes was an infinitely better designed map than the entirety of Phantom Pain's open-world, and it was pretty much just a demo. That military base felt like an HD remake of Shadow Moses.

Tell that to the "professionals" in the gaming sphere, the blind defenders, and those that are on top I think they know and better otherwise. I know this argument has been going on since Elise the late 6th generation and early seven generation, but I'm glad it's actually been dying down over the years. You still have loud, vocal minority, supporters who like to hate on everything that's not to their specific taste or anything linear, but most people realize you can have a engaging linear game. There's plenty of games from the mid 2010s, last year, and the year before last year proved it already. You just have another case of people acting like they know everything, or just want to hear themselves talk.

Either game critics are stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to reviewing for their audience, or they themselves just don't know what the fuck they want. If it's a linear game there'll almost always be some line about the game's length being short or about how they wish there was more off the beaten path. If a game is open-world you'll get the usual complaints about "too big, too much".

 

[CriticalGaming]

So where does what Yahtzee call a "ghost train" experience fit in?

Ghost Train rides are the cinematic story driven games like Guardians and The Last of Us. For someone so into story like yahtzee I don't understand his problem with these types of games. They all sort of fit into a certain formula, but have enough gameplay variance to make them never feel the same while also having the freedom to tell great storys (most of the time).

I don't think he hates Ghost Train Rides the same way he hated Spunk-gargle-wee-wee aka generic Call of Duty whatevers. I just think he's cracked the code that makes the games work and he's given it a nickname to catagorize them.

 

[BrawlMan]

If it's a linear game there'll almost always be some line about the game's length being short or about how they wish there was more off the beaten path.

All the more ironic, unless the game had shoe horned in multiplayer. Then they would complain about that only some of the time. If it was a Call of Duty game, they usually would not complain about it or think it's only a minor flaw that's not worth talking about.

If a game is open-world you'll get the usual complaints about "too

That's even more ironic considering they are always whining and shouting about how open worlds need to be as big as possible. They were the ones constantly pushing for it, more than the gaming audience ever wanted or could. They have no one to blame but themselves on that one. They get no sympathy for me either way.

 

[BrawlMan]

Ghost Train rides are the cinematic story driven games like Guardians and The Last of Us. For someone so into story like yahtzee I don't understand his problem with these types of games. They all sort of fit into a certain formula, but have enough gameplay variance to make them never feel the same while also having the

Same here. At the end of the day, they are still linear games, just with a fancy term or name. Otherwise, there's nothing that special. It's just a different type of linearity. Sometimes I feel like Yahtzee just wants to make fancy terms to catch on like he did with spunk gargle wee-wee or "spectacle fighters" (aka, stylish brawlers and hack and slash games). Thank God, spectacle fighters went out of use by the late 2010s. The ghost trained term feels especially gimmicky and forced. I will never use it.