The Shattered Elden Ring Thread: Tarnished Edition - (Shadow of the Erdtree p. 85)

[CriticalGaming]

Yeah, it's shocking how few of the bosses are Unique. There's an excuse for Margit/Morgott, the godskin fucks....sure, why not, but it feels like there's a lot of bosses that they just hit the copy/paste button because it was 4:59 and the bar was about to open. I didn't like it in Dark Souls 2 and I don't it here either.

It is fucking sad that there are more unique normal enemies than there are boss enemies. I made that complaint before where out of the 13ish required bosses, there are still repeats within that small pool of bosses when the game has something like 150 boss encounters in total.

The open world design of this game was a mistake and nobody will convince me otherwise that a tightly designed and controlled experience in the same setting would not have served the game much better and allowed From to craft encounters throughout that all felt great. If anything I would have done a split open world experience. I would have started the player in Limgrave and let Limgrave be open world. Then I would have funneled the player for a while through places like the castle and the academy, before leading them to a different "open world zone" like Caelid where there would be more exploration as the player works toward the festival. From the festival I would take the player to Volcano manor that leads them down into the sunken city of Nokia-phones, before leading them back up into Lyndell. From Lyndell they would go through the final "open" zone of the Ice Giant area for the cauldron. After the cauldron they would be given a choice to go to the Halgtree, or Farum Mazula and the end of the game.

Instead they made everything open and it's a mess. I feel like spliting the open worlds between tighter story sequences would have been a better direction for the game entirely.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

At 0.55, the monster goes up in the air, turns into the ball, the camera goes NUTS.... at this point, I had no idea where it was going or where it would land. This player dodged it like it was a scrub skeleton pathetically swinging a sword.
And this is where I'm like... yeah, if you can do this, great, but I just can't.

The camera did a 180 to adjust perspective when the beast jumped over him. Reinforcing the point that lock-on is highly discretionary in these games. I’ve pondered several times about how it could be done better.

A trigger button hold for lock-on like arena fighters often use wouldn’t work here because it would mean remapping a more vital attack/guard input to some other button that would be more awkward when needing to also maintain control of the camera.

Environmental awareness can also the difference between life and death in Souls games, so being able to orient your character 360 degrees freely with a shield raised takes precedence over lock-on outside of direct combat encounters.

Allowing preset camera settings to cycle through might’ve been a compromise. But I think people would’ve complained that they don’t know which distance to use when. Too close and you can’t see everything or it’s too overwhelming. Too far and attack distance or enemy reach for guarding/dodging might be judged incorrectly.

Turning off auto correct in options for camera is the first step readily available but the rest is unfortunately left up to the player to make due.

Just because it's possible doesn't make it right.There are people who can solo Melania at level 1 with no damage, no rolls, no parrying and no farting. But that doesn't mean her Water Foul Dance isn't bullshit. It's still incredibly bad placement for such an enemy, but the same way putting those big tree serpents in tiny fucking rooms is also bad. There are loads of issues with putting monsters in places they don't fit, not only because of the actual fight but also because Fromsoft's camera is still rather terrible.

There are people who can solo Melania at level 1 with no damage, no rolls, no parrying and no farting. But that doesn't mean her Water Foul Dance isn't bullshit .

Not disagreeing with that. Melania has more bullshit than other cheap bosses in FROM games from what I’ve seen/read. Not sure what the reasoning is there. Can only hope another patch will further alleviate those issues but we might have to wait for a big update like DLC. Also to perhaps add more meaningful content to late game areas.


I think FROM has a history of their eyes being bigger than their stomachs in terms of ambition vs resources to make everything work well. Bloodborne probably got the closest to perfection. Even Sekiro and DS3, but I realize why they felt the need to make this the biggest game ever, being a culminated effort n all. Bottom line is the game could’ve used an extra few months to flesh out everything it does have, or simply scaling back parts of the map like you said. The issue ultimately is they’re not a Rockstar or even PS studio where delays can be tolerated indefinitely.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Not disagreeing with that. Melania has more bullshit than other cheap bosses in FROM games from what I’ve seen/read. Not sure what the reasoning is there. Can only hope another patch will further alleviate those issues but we might have to wait for a big update like DLC. Also to perhaps add more meaningful content to late game areas.

You know the thing about this game is, it really isn't that hard if you use the systems the game provides. Weapon Arts, and Summon ashes are incredibly strong. The game is only hard when you play it like a Dark Souls game and purposefully restrict yourself. There are arguments to be made about the "true experience" but quite frankly the sheer level of unfair bullshit the bosses have, I'm leaning towards From expecting players to use the tools that they provide.

Melania is the perfect example of this. If you face like a souls boss, she's fucking insanely hard. But if you use ashes and weapon arts she's not that tough. A bit of bleed and a mimic tear and you'll melt her away without much effort tbh. Are the bosses and enemies in the game fucking stupid hard if you fight them like a Souls game? Yes. But this isn't a souls game, it's Elden Ring. So why not play the game like Elden Ring? In doing so you'll breeze through the game especially if you are semi-good at Souls games.

Just go look for Youtuber's struggling on Melania. You'll see that the people who really struggle are the people basically using heavy weapons and jumping r2 spam. Fought that way, she's nuts. But if you watch someone play her using weapon arts alone she's a much different fight. Add a summon there and she's even more of a push over.

I would say that the hardest bosses are the early game bosses where the player is unlikely to have any real build worthy equipment. Which is perhaps why Margit is so overtuned feeling, because they want the player to pay attention to all the new tools available and use them.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Well I been exploring the captial and Volcano Mountain with my boss-slaying laser cannon and the game is now fun because I get to fast forward the part I don't like about it.
Godefroy, Margot, Godskin Noble, yet another Wyrm... each took two tries, one to learn where and when to fire my laser canon, and the next to do it. I send my mimic tear out to distract them and I blast 'em like a *****. Behold, Babs the Glintsone Cheap *****, who got ever her barbarian blood warrior phase to discover the true violent joy of cheapness.

I’ve pondered several times about how it could be done better.

What, boss fights where the bosses have to be humungous but also move around real fast but you also don't have a reliable counter-style system like Sekiro?
Yeah... maybe the answer is just don't do that. Sekiro figured this out, that's why it's so frustrating that they regressed.
But, enough complaining, others enjoy these boss fights so I'm not objectively wrong, I just know what I feel.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Well I been exploring the captial and Volcano Mountain with my boss-slaying laser cannon and the game is now fun because I get to fast forward the part I don't like about it.
Godefroy, Margot, Godskin Noble, yet another Wyrm... each took two tries, one to learn where and when to fire my laser canon, and the next to do it. I send my mimic tear out to distract them and I blast 'em like a *****. Behold, Babs the Glintsone Cheap *****, who got ever her barbarian blood warrior phase to discover the true violent joy of cheapness.

This is what I said above about being the intended experience. You have a build, and you are using the tools the melt bosses faces. Does it matter you aren't playing like a Souls game? Hell no. What matters is you are Charlie Sheen and all you can do with your big death lazer is "WINNING!"

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

This is what I said above about being the intended experience. You have a build, and you are using the tools the melt bosses faces. Does it matter you aren't playing like a Souls game? Hell no. What matters is you are Charlie Sheen and all you can do with your big death lazer is "WINNING!"

Well yeah I don't deny your point. It's just for my preferences, this type of boss design is not what I enjoy. Like, yeah, I'm overcoming it by youtubing build advice so that I can make it easier for me. But it's to "avoid" core gameplay, which is brutal boss fights. And this game is, like, mostly boss fights.
That's why I keep comparing it to Sekiro, where Souls fans didn't like it because they couldn't do it. If i wasn't enraptured by its combat mechanics, I'd hate the game... HATE IT. But, you know, there it is.

And for me the difference is simply this: I am never replaying this game. But is a 5th run through of Sekiro in the cards for me at some point? Yeah, probably. And that's fine, I don't replay most games anyway.

 

[CriticalGaming]

But it's to "avoid" core gameplay, which is brutal boss fights. And this game is, like, mostly boss fights.

I disagree. I think the boss fights are brutal when you aren't using the intended systems. But the bosses become far less brutal when using the tools the game provides. Whcih to me, speaks of intention. There is a reason one of the first key things you get are spirit summons.

Nioh is a lot the same way, if you play Nioh like a Souls game you're gonna get fucked up. But once you start playing Nioh the way it WANTS you to play it, the game is awesome.

I am never replaying this game.

Me neither. I beat it three times and I never want to play it again because I simply don't think the game is very good overall. It's an interesting expirament by From but not one that pays off imo. Sadly based off everyone in the world sucking their dick over this game, I feel like were are going to see the next game go in much of this same direction.

 

[Terminal Blue]

This is what I said above about being the intended experience. You have a build, and you are using the tools the melt bosses faces. Does it matter you aren't playing like a Souls game? Hell no. What matters is you are Charlie Sheen and all you can do with your big death lazer is "WINNING!"

You create the experience you want to have.

I refuse to use magic in souls games, not because I think that's the intended way to play and anyone who does is a scrub who needs to git gud, but because for me it's less fun. For me the fun comes when you have that one perfect boss run, when you've observed and learned out every move a boss makes without even realising you were doing it, and suddenly you're just gliding through everything that killed you before and you start to feel invincible.. and then you inevitably get greedy and die when the boss has 5% health left and you have to go and do something else because you're so flooded with adrenaline and you're not going to get that focus back for a while. To me dying to a boss fifty or a hundred times is entirely worth it if I can have that experience, that element of hardship and anticipation is part of what makes the perfect run so perfect. Weirdly, I've found myself using weapon arts less and less as the game has gone on. I sometimes forget they exist at this point.

This probably sounds like "git gud" nonsense, and I don't think that's an accident. I think a few very vocal players who are fans of this series have internalized that my way of playing these games is the "correct" way, that striving for mastery over systems is more important than progressing quickly or easily. I actually think, in terms of intended playstyle, it's the opposite. I feel like these games are all designed on the assumption that you will treat them like a puzzle and figure out the best and easiest strategies to beat them, not that you will bash your head against them until you absorb enough git gud points to progress. You're given so many tools and options which "hardcore" players insist you should never use that I just don't think it's reasonable to conclude that the game is designed around "hardcore" limitations.

And again, this isn't about skill. I am still pretty bad at Souls games, and I am not kidding about dying to bosses a hundred times. My point is that not everyone wants or enjoys the same experience. My housemate absolutely powered through this game, as he has with every single souls game, because to him the enjoyment comes from winning and making progress and uncovering more of the story. If he dies more than a handful of times to a boss he finds it frustrating so he just does whatever he needs to do to win, and generally does very easily. We represent two different ways of approaching these games which find enjoyment in different things, and that's fine.

What I will say is that I seem to have had much more fun with Elden Ring than my housemate did, so maybe the way I play is better for enjoying this specific game. But I don't think that's necessarily good or bad.

If I encounter a repeated boss, it means I can have that experience again without needing to go through the learning period. In fact, one of the biggest obstacles I have in completing souls games is wanting to fight the earlier bosses again and restarting. Elden Ring really feels like it was designed for me in this regard.

 

[CriticalGaming]

You create the experience you want to have.

I think this is a fundamentally flawed statement right out of the gate. I didn't design the game, Fromsoft did, and they designed the game for a specific experience. The players don't typically create this as they use what is given to them by the game at any given time. And the experience they have is entirely contingent on what the game is presenting them at any given time. Maybe you find Margit early, maybe you don't get to Margit until you're level 70 and fully kitted to your playstyle. Either way YOU don't create that experience, the game did, the design did.

This is why the standard Souls games are better designed imo, because there is some control over where the player will go and what they'll have. Therefore the experience given to the player at any time can be tight and specific because you can guarantee the player will have certain tools to use against the challenge presented. Elden Ring had to be designed without that knowledge. Therefore everything was designed under "best guess" to what the player may have or may not have found. Some of this is excused by the philosophy of "too hard, go do something else and come back", but at some point you can't assume the player will have moonveil, or Comet of Azure, or mimic tear, or any of that stuff because it all sits on the optional paths tucked away in easy to miss areas. This means you have two choices, either design what you want and force the player to "get gud" to deal with it, or hold back and make everything fairly beatable with whatever.

I think From took the first path. They bosses are unforgivingly hard, unless you explored, unless you upgraded, unless you are using all your tricks. This means the difficulty curve is drastically all over the place. And as a result you have results like you an your housemate. Perhaps they stumbled into things that circumvented the experience of the game in a way they didn't enjoy, whereas you had the opposite experience. But neither of you chose those experiences, you took what the game provided because unless you looked it up, how could you know otherwise? How does the player melting bosses with Rivers of Blood know that isn't how things are supposed to go?

This is especially true if you look up builds on Youtube. Every build shows you what to use to melt everything in the game in a variety of different ways. If there are 100 ways to melt through the difficulty, then I'm more inclined to think that melting the bosses are the intended way to play the game. Otherwise FromSoft would have nerfed dialed all this stuff back, and they didn't. If they wanted it to be a game closer to a Souls experience, they could have done so....but they didn't.

Where your statement DOES become true, is when players purposefully limit themselves in order to play in a specific way or to challenge themselves. However the vast majority of players doing this, already have the experience behind them to make these choices. Would a reasonable brand new player to FromSoft games limit themselves blindly like this? I doubt it.

Additionally I feel like a lot of this attitude comes from an expectation players have from previous Fromsoft games. They like souls games and they want more souls games, but Elden Ring is not a souls game....not really. There is a souls game in there, but that is only the foundation of what's here and playing like a Souls games is deliberately ignoring the forrest for the trees.

If that's the experience you want, god bless. But nobody should feel bad about playing the game any other way.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I think this is a fundamentally flawed statement right out of the gate. I didn't design the game, Fromsoft did, and they designed the game for a specific experience.

I feel like you're undermining your own point here.

Any game that is complex enough to be really engaging will probably have more than one possible way of playing it, including some the developers didn't think of. Fromsoft probably didn't think about people using Comet Azur with Cerulean Hidden Tear to one-shot the hardest bosses in Elden Ring with an infinite laser beam.

There are two ways of looking at this and they're linked to two different philosophies about game design. The first is that those people are playing the game wrong by subverting the developer's intention. The developer built a constructed, linear experience which the player was supposed to go through and the players broke it. The other approach would see this as an example of emergent gameplay. The developer gave the players a series of mechanics which the players found a novel way to use.

Unlike a book or a film, the players in a game aren't passive consumers but active collaborators in the experience they are having. Some games take away a lot of that control in order to give the player a cinematic experience, others embrace the idea of player freedom and focus on giving the player a fun toolbox to use as they see fit. The soulsborne series has always been somewhere in the middle, but despite what fans insist, these games do give you enough freedom to play them in a wide variety of ways, and they are complex enough to allow for a degree of emergence.

Maybe you find Margit early, maybe you don't get to Margit until you're level 70 and fully kitted to your playstyle. Either way YOU don't create that experience, the game did, the design did.

If the game created that experience, how do you have a playstyle?

I was going to emphasize this by pointing out that you don't develop a "readstyle" when reading a book, but then I remembered that one interview with Hidetaka Miyazaki where he talks about how his approach to narrative came from growing up in a poor family who couldn't afford to buy books, and thus having to read whatever was available even if it was too advanced, so he would have to imagine parts of the story and would end up with his own version of that story. Even the lore of the Souls series is designed to be engaged with, and I think that approach to player direction is a big part of what has made this series so popular.

A game that simply expected you to solve a series of escalating challenges by finding the solution the developer intended would not be a souls game. It would not even be a roleplaying game, because what defines a roleplaying game is the ability of the player to express themselves through making choices about the character they are playing. It would be a puzzle game, and not even a very good puzzle game.

And as a result you have results like you an your housemate. Perhaps they stumbled into things that circumvented the experience of the game in a way they didn't enjoy, whereas you had the opposite experience.

That's not really it. My housemate did enjoy it, just less than other souls games (for similar reasons to those you've described). But again, the point was really that we have a very different way of approaching these games and very different ideas of what enjoyment looks like. For one, he doesn't get that feeling of disappointment for beating a boss quickly or easily. He plays in a very objective driven way where the goal is to keep moving forwards and where winning is winning. I like to struggle and see myself incrementally improve each time until that one run where the stars align and everything comes together. To me it's the best feeling you can have playing a video game, and it's worth the frustration of getting there.

There will come a point, I know, where the struggle actually outstrips my skill and I have to start thinking more tactically and using every tool available. I'm pretty close to the end of the game and it hasn't happened yet, but it will happen (as it happened in every previous souls game). I don't see that as a problem. I'm not really objective driven when I play these games. If I hit a point of genuinely not being able to progress, my first impulse is to go do something else, which means that by the time it becomes impossible to progress I will have the tools to make it happen, even if they're not the specific meta tools reddit recommends.

But then, I'm also not actually bothered about finishing the game, certainly not within any particular timeframe.

How does the player melting bosses with Rivers of Blood know that isn't how things are supposed to go?

If a player got far enough in to get Rivers of Blood, they have plenty of experience of what it's like to not have Rivers of Blood and are entirely capable of deciding whether to use Rivers of Blood or whether that's going to ruin their experience.

If there are 100 ways to melt through the difficulty, then I'm more inclined to think that melting the bosses are the intended way to play the game.

Yes, I actually agreed with this.

However, I don't think it actually matters what the intended way to play the game is. I think the concept of an intended way to play the game is kind of dumb. You decide how to play the game using the mechanics and tools you are given. It depends what you want to get out of it and what matters to you.

Also, even if the intended way of playing the game was naked SL1 using only fists, the vast majority of players just wouldn't be able to do that and if the game forced them to, they would stop playing. Even a game that is intended to be a difficult, hardcore experience has to be able to be played long enough to learn how to play it in the "intended" way, which means either adding variable difficulty or adding ways of playing the game which make it possible for players who can't play the game in the intended way to make progress anyway and, ultimately, to learn how to play in the intended way. Games have to be designed around players of varying skill levels, a game which expects you to walk in and already know how to play it is a game that most players won't bother getting into because it doesn't respect their time.

Speculating about how you were meant to play Elden Ring seems kind of weird because, even if we leave out emergent gameplay, we can't possibly know what is intended and what is just part of the scaffolding needed to support the intended way of playing. At the end of the day, I don't think it matters what is intended and what isn't. If you find a way to play that you enjoy and doesn't ruin the experience for you, just do that.

 

[sXeth]

You know it's funny, I do play big games with huge worlds and TONS of repeated enemies so it would be hypocritical of me to complain about that in ER. But with DR, for me this is where the difficulty and the repetition creates like an exponential reverberation of frustration. It's not just "oh, another two of these," it's that I know I'll be spending the next 4 hours trying to beat them. At least in Ubisoft games, I can dispatch the 40th iteration of "big dude with ax" or whatever and move on.

Sure I was just complaining about Astel but I am assuming it is a unique boss and there isn't just going to be some Astel randomly in the world (there are other bosses like that). So, it was cool to see at least and as frustrating as the fight is, at least it's a unique/special thing I did in a game. So that is great! But then I encountered another Omen Killer randomly in the world and it's like... ok, you're gonna smash me up 10x and then I'll kill you, and that's what happened, and I was just... tired, so tired.

There is actually another (optional) Astel. again, seeming like they just ran out of time/ideas at some point.

(Or well, technically Astel was optional, but its very likely you'd do Rannis quest as its probably the most coherent direction in the game. Its like MArgit and Godrick are also optional)

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

You know the thing about this game is, it really isn't that hard if you use the systems the game provides. Weapon Arts, and Summon ashes are incredibly strong. The game is only hard when you play it like a Dark Souls game and purposefully restrict yourself. There are arguments to be made about the "true experience" but quite frankly the sheer level of unfair bullshit the bosses have, I'm leaning towards From expecting players to use the tools that they provide.

Melania is the perfect example of this. If you face like a souls boss, she's fucking insanely hard. But if you use ashes and weapon arts she's not that tough. A bit of bleed and a mimic tear and you'll melt her away without much effort tbh. Are the bosses and enemies in the game fucking stupid hard if you fight them like a Souls game? Yes. But this isn't a souls game, it's Elden Ring. So why not play the game like Elden Ring? In doing so you'll breeze through the game especially if you are semi-good at Souls games.

Just go look for Youtuber's struggling on Melania. You'll see that the people who really struggle are the people basically using heavy weapons and jumping r2 spam. Fought that way, she's nuts. But if you watch someone play her using weapon arts alone she's a much different fight. Add a summon there and she's even more of a push over.

I would say that the hardest bosses are the early game bosses where the player is unlikely to have any real build worthy equipment. Which is perhaps why Margit is so overtuned feeling, because they want the player to pay attention to all the new tools available and use them.

Yeah I fought Margit once, then went to Caelid and found rotten stray ash summons to poison his ass. Basically sat back and waited out the last half of his health. Same with Godrick, had him within one bloody hit straight melee when he said “Nope”, then came back and slammed him with rock sling. I’ve played enough of these games the “hard way” to not feel bad about doing this in the slightest, and appreciate that there are now much easier ways to beat shit down if you seek them out.

There have been a ton of other bosses I’ve melee’d in the meantime anyways, and I’ve approached failed attempt numbers close to earlier FROM games already in at least a couple of these instances. Hell I don’t even have mimic tear or farmed levels yet but it doesn’t bother me. I’ll do some of that at some point sooner than later I suppose before hitting up Mogh since between Mt Gilmir and Leyndell I’d imagine late game won’t be much farther off and I’ll probably be better off in the mid 100’s at least.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

I've arrived at the Mountaintop of the Giants. I believe this is where the internet consensus is that the difficulty spikes. But I've also been rune-farming like mad hurling points towards Vigor in a desperate attempt to stay alive occassinally 1 second longer *shrug*

 

[CriticalGaming]

Any game that is complex enough to be really engaging will probably have more than one possible way of playing it, including some the developers didn't think of. Fromsoft probably didn't think about people using Comet Azur with Cerulean Hidden Tear to one-shot the hardest bosses in Elden Ring with an infinite laser beam.

I think this would hold up if there weren't a shit load of other possibilities to do pretty much the same thing. Comet is flashy, but it's hardly the only thing in the game that melts stuff. I will also note that the comet spell can be rather slow which is part of the reason why I think a lot of the enemies are very very fast and jumpy, to purposefully try and add challenge to the lazer.

If the game created that experience, how do you have a playstyle?

By picking the option that the player finds most enjoyable. The game provides Experience A, B, or C, and the player can chose which they like best but those three experiences are already provided, the choice is which experience you want not creating your own. Minecraft is a game where you create your own experience because it's limits are your imagination for the most part.

A game that simply expected you to solve a series of escalating challenges by finding the solution the developer intended would not be a souls game. It would not even be a roleplaying game, because what defines a roleplaying game is the ability of the player to express themselves through making choices about the character they are playing. It would be a puzzle game, and not even a very good puzzle game.

But souls games are puzzle games. They just aren't linear puzzles. Every boss asks you to get the number 4. You can do 1+3, 1+1+1+1, 2+2, 4+0, etc etc etc. The bosses are puzzles with many answers. Your skill with the controls are how you solve the puzzle.

Yes, I actually agreed with this.

However, I don't think it actually matters what the intended way to play the game is. I think the concept of an intended way to play the game is kind of dumb. You decide how to play the game using the mechanics and tools you are given. It depends what you want to get out of it and what matters to you.

Also, even if the intended way of playing the game was naked SL1 using only fists, the vast majority of players just wouldn't be able to do that and if the game forced them to, they would stop playing. Even a game that is intended to be a difficult, hardcore experience has to be able to be played long enough to learn how to play it in the "intended" way, which means either adding variable difficulty or adding ways of playing the game which make it possible for players who can't play the game in the intended way to make progress anyway and, ultimately, to learn how to play in the intended way. Games have to be designed around players of varying skill levels, a game which expects you to walk in and already know how to play it is a game that most players won't bother getting into because it doesn't respect their time.

Speculating about how you were meant to play Elden Ring seems kind of weird because, even if we leave out emergent gameplay, we can't possibly know what is intended and what is just part of the scaffolding needed to support the intended way of playing. At the end of the day, I don't think it matters what is intended and what isn't. If you find a way to play that you enjoy and doesn't ruin the experience for you, just do that.

Well the reason I say "intended" is because a lot of these systems are forced into the players hands. Here's summons, here's some weapon arts, here's trinkets that make your stuff better, there are things you can infer through the design of the game.

Take an FPS game. You COULD run around an melee everything and everyone to death. But I think we can agree you are intended to use the guns the game provides, wouldn't you say?

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

So after nearly three months now, is it mostly correct to say ER is or isn't Dark Souls 4 lol?

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

So after nearly three months now, is it mostly correct to say ER is or isn't Dark Souls 4 lol?

To me it is 100% Dark Souls 4. It is EXACTLY how I felt playing Dark Soul 3... kind of cool, often frustrating in both good and bad ways. The core combat and movement is identical and IMO the differences that ER have, like jumping and the horse, are just minor fluff things, they don't fundamentally change the way I feel playing or experiencing it. It's still the same thing with stats and weapons and obscure "quests" and two kinds of magic and "you can play how you want except anyway level half your poins in health."

This isn't Bloodborne or Sekiro where there is enough difference in vibe or mechanics to set it apart. Bloodborne's gothic themes and lack of real "builds" and shields makes it not Dark Souls 2.5. Sekiro's posture mechanic and pure single player experience makes it not Dark Souls 4. But Elden Ring? It's Dark Souls 4. But everything is far apart so you need a horse to get around.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Riding around Mountaintop of the Giants and dying to everything, this is what its color palette reminds me of (big up to any fellow prog rock heads):

 

[BrawlMan]

So after nearly three months now, is it mostly correct to say ER is or isn't Dark Souls 4 lol?

It's Dark Souls 4. Even some reviewers who praised the game up and down, called it as such.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

To me it is 100% Dark Souls 4. It is EXACTLY how I felt playing Dark Soul 3... kind of cool, often frustrating in both good and bad ways. The core combat and movement is identical and IMO the differences that ER have, like jumping and the horse, are just minor fluff things, they don't fundamentally change the way I feel playing or experiencing it. It's still the same thing with stats and weapons and obscure "quests" and two kinds of magic and "you can play how you want except anyway level half your poins in health."

This isn't Bloodborne or Sekiro where there is enough difference in vibe or mechanics to set it apart. Bloodborne's gothic themes and lack of real "builds" and shields makes it not Dark Souls 2.5. Sekiro's posture mechanic and pure single player experience makes it not Dark Souls 4. But Elden Ring? It's Dark Souls 4. But everything is far apart so you need a horse to get around.

I personally think just having an actual jump being viable to combat or anything else now is a bigger plus than any previous SoulsBorne game tweak. I mean, I could accept it before since that’s just how it was, but then Sekiro came along and it’s like wow, yes more of that please. Granted, ER isn’t an action game but I’m really liking the added tweaks to combat. There’s a lot more different ways to tackle stuff now even without ashes and even stealth is viable. So it’s like a blend of (most) of the best parts of all past games, plus another layer or two of fresh mechanics.

Sadly based off everyone in the world sucking their dick over this game, I feel like were are going to see the next game go in much of this same direction.

Gamerant of all places kinda seems to lean in the opposite direction of that and shares your sentiment a bit -

https://gamerant.com/fromsoftware-open-world-design-linearity-elden-ring-dark-souls-comparison/amp/

They make the case of FROM perfecting the art of (mostly) linear progression. I think if ER wasn’t open world though it would need to be a hub design like Demon’s or Bloodborne, and with a few key places contained in each. Otherwise it would just seem weird to hodge-podge different settings together into a condensed but still open playing space.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I think if ER wasn’t open world though it would need to be a hub design like Demon’s or Bloodborne, and with a few key places contained in each.

Every game except Sekiro had a hub. Firelink, Majula, The Dream, The Nexus, take your pick.

That's why I say I think it could have been better served to have a large open world hub area that branches off into more linear sequences. Like if Limgrave split off and led to the other various levels in the game like Lyndell, Nokron, whatever. And after each level the player could be brought back to limgrave to choose a different path as well as have more paths and optional areas available to them, like access to a coffin that leads down.....