Ukraine

[meiam]

I don't think they themselves are useful idiot but useful idiots sure love to listen to them (and giving them money) so they play the part and don't give a shit about the consequence of their action.

I'm starting to think that a large portion of the population just need to believe in something outlandish and with religion retreating people like Carlson and Johnson are filling the gap. It's pretty scary and makes me wonder if the best case scenario isn't to turn them all into flat earther.

 

[Seanchaidh]

This would not have happened

did your crystal ball tell you that?

you seem to get yourself worked up over sets of questionable premises (often provided by western propaganda), upon which you found an overwrought righteous indignation. Naturally, it looks ridiculous to anyone who doesn't agree with your premises.

 

[CM156]

you seem to get yourself worked up over sets of questionable premises (often provided by western propaganda), upon which you found an overwrought righteous indignation. Naturally, it looks ridiculous to anyone who doesn't agree with your premises.

Everything you've just said here (minus the western propaganda part) applies far more to you than it does anyone else here.
You have to be taking the piss.

 

[Silvanus]

did your crystal ball tell you that?

Nope; it's just completely idiotic to believe that Ukraine is applying for NATO membership now by complete coincidence, unrelated to the fact that Russia has invaded it, sponsored an insurgency, sent disguised troops over its border for 6 years, invaded it again, and annexed it.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

Apparently Ukraine is pushing into Kherson territory. It's too early to tell but it seems like this offensive is also doing some work

Also this funny piece of information

This could be bullshit but if is true I have to ask what the fuck?

 

[Dalisclock]

Apparently Ukraine is pushing into Kherson territory. It's too early to tell but it seems like this offensive is also doing some work

Also this funny piece of information

This could be bullshit but if is true I have to ask what the fuck?

I'm not convinced Russia has any clue what the fuck they're doing at this point and Winter is coming. Contrary to popular belief, Russians can freeze in the Russian Winter and it's typically been a bane for INVADING armies because of the stretched/inadequate supply lines.

Now, members of the audience, what has Russia been having constant, mind boggling incompetent problems with this entire war? Logistics.
What are they doing? Invading a nation that very much fucking hates them right now and has literally no reason to ever stop fighting as long as the Russian military is there, considering the war crimes they've committed thus far.
And now they're tossing in thousands of poorly trained conscripts(many of whom probably do not want to be there) into the mix and expecting it's gonna make a difference at this point.

It's gonna be a rough fucking winter for Russia, that's all I'm saying. Congrats, Russia, you are the Nazis committed to poorly supplied invasion in intensely hostile territory. You learned jack shit from WW2.

 

[Terminal Blue]

So, this mobilization is turning out to be even more cruel and demoralizing than anyone expected.

So, the newly passed law that enables Russia to conscript during peacetime has a classified section. Obviously, noone outside the government knows what's in there, but general speculation at this point is that it's probably the actual criteria under which people can be conscripted, and probably explains something about why 40 year olds and disabled people are getting call-up notices.


You know it's bad when multiple Russian and pro-Russian officers, Russian state media commentators and senior figures within the Russian government all suddenly decide to grow balls and call this situation out for the shitshow it is..

The reason for what is happening, first and foremost, is not a lack of people but careless use of people—that is, how [poorly] the process is organized. If this approach stays in place, the shortage will be constant, no matter how many people you mobilize, and Russia will be hit by a wave of killed-in-action notices without getting its desired result, which will lead to a serious crisis.

That little gem of horrible truth is from Alexander Khodakovsky, chief of the DPR's security service and certified mass-murderer.

 

[Silvanus]

Russia has said it will begin consultations on where the borders of Russia in Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be. So they're not annexing the full territory (representing a slight climbdown) and there's currently... no official Russian policy on where the borders of their own country are.

In other news, Ramzan Kadyrov is sending his 3 sons-- aged 14, 15 and 16-- to fight on the front.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

In other news, Ramzan Kadyrov is sending his 3 sons-- aged 14, 15 and 16-- to fight on the front.

"I'll show the world how tough I am by putting my children in harm's way for no likely benefit!"

 

[Dalisclock]

"I'll show the world how tough I am by putting my children in harm's way for no likely benefit!"

Child Soldiers for the win!

Speaking of child soldier,

Sir Elon of the Musk has graced us with his take on the whole thing.

Zelenskyy vs. Musk on Twitter

Ukraine’s president tweets about Tesla founder.

www.politico.eu

The real question is: Is Putin paying him to Simp for Russia or is he doing this Pro Bono?

 

[SilentPony]

The real question is: Is Putin paying him to Simp for Russia or is he doing this Pro Bono?

Oh nothing so malevolent. Elon Musk is a fucking moron. His "success" comes from being born in an Emerald child slave mine owning family, and then buying Tesla, claiming all their ideas and products came from him, and then firing everyone who disagreed, and Tesla only survives because of massive government subsidies. Tesla itself hasn't turned a profit is years, and its only being kept open by politicians who fell for Elon's cult of personality that he's a real-life Tony Stark. The reality is he's about one iota smarter than Donald Trump, and is about as competent a businessman.

 

[CM156]

Child Soldiers for the win!

Speaking of child soldier,

Sir Elon of the Musk has graced us with his take on the whole thing.

Zelenskyy vs. Musk on Twitter

Ukraine’s president tweets about Tesla founder.

www.politico.eu

The real question is: Is Putin paying him to Simp for Russia or is he doing this Pro Bono?

I saw someone assert that Elon is an adherent of the "dead cat principle."
Essentially, if you're a figure of note, and something bad happens (like a stock price slump) do or say something outrageous so people write about that instead. It's like throwing a dead cat into a room.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

...and its only being kept open by politicians who fell for Elon's cult of personality that he's a real-life Tony Stark.

Don't forget his legions of nerd stans who think he'll get them into space so they can have sex with hot green-skinned space babes, just like Captain Kirk.

 

[SilentPony]

Don't forget his legions of nerd stans who think he'll get them into space so they can have sex with hot green-skinned space babes, just like Captain Kirk.

God one of the reasons I stopped watching Real Time with Bill Maher was because he's such a Musk deepthroater. Calling him the smartest man in the world, saying if anyone can solve climate change and the pandemic it was Musk, saying all his products are amazing and everything works 100% from the word go. Just over and over for an entire season just gave Elon a nice sloppy tit-wank and thanking him for the privilege of being alive at the same time.

And i don't get it. How can Bill, or indeed any of Musk's followers, look down and mock the Trumpers for falling for the okey doke, for believing the propaganda and open lies, and then turn around and fall to their knees is joyful sexual worship of a guy whose best achievement was being born white and rich in apartheid Africa.

 

[Dalisclock]

Oh nothing so malevolent. Elon Musk is a fucking moron. His "success" comes from being born in an Emerald child slave mine owning family, and then buying Tesla, claiming all their ideas and products came from him, and then firing everyone who disagreed, and Tesla only survives because of massive government subsidies. Tesla itself hasn't turned a profit is years, and its only being kept open by politicians who fell for Elon's cult of personality that he's a real-life Tony Stark. The reality is he's about one iota smarter than Donald Trump, and is about as competent a businessman.

Yeah, honestly, that's my take as well. He's yet another celebrity convinced he knows everything because he's rich and/or famous and unfortunately he has a lot of people who seem to believe that as well, feeding his ego. My sister used to be one of them but has fortunately snapped out of it a couple years back.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

And i don't get it. How can Bill, or indeed any of Musk's followers, look down and mock the Trumpers for falling for the okey doke, for believing the propaganda and open lies, and then turn around and fall to their knees is joyful sexual worship of a guy whose best achievement was being born white and rich in apartheid Africa.

A stunning lack of self-awareness, would be my guess.

 

[Gordon_4]

God one of the reasons I stopped watching Real Time with Bill Maher was because he's such a Musk deepthroater. Calling him the smartest man in the world, saying if anyone can solve climate change and the pandemic it was Musk, saying all his products are amazing and everything works 100% from the word go. Just over and over for an entire season just gave Elon a nice sloppy tit-wank and thanking him for the privilege of being alive at the same time.

And i don't get it. How can Bill, or indeed any of Musk's followers, look down and mock the Trumpers for falling for the okey doke, for believing the propaganda and open lies, and then turn around and fall to their knees is joyful sexual worship of a guy whose best achievement was being born white and rich in apartheid Africa.

Well, Musk only controls one possibly going to fail company and while his influence is rather obviously broad, it does seem to pale in comparison to the actual power that was for four years granted to the mad twat by virtue of the highest political office of THE global economic and military super power. Who’s supporters then attempted a coup d’état - poorly, thank fuck - when he lost re-election.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I kind of get from the outside perspective one group just seen like a bunch of overeager Star Trek nerds and one group the potential end of American Democracy as we know it.

 

[meiam]

It's awesome that Ukraine is making progress, but realistically what's the endgame here? Let say they push back and recapture all the territory and hold the border. Is there any universe where Putin just goes "Okay I failed" and just call it quit and doesn't use nuke? The argument is always that if Russia use nuke they'll be blown up in response, but Imagine Hitler had some nuke, would he really have just blown off his head in a bunker rather that throw all the nuke around in a hail mary? because he had nothing to lose?

It feel like the only realistic exit that doesn't involve millions of dead from nuke is for Russian to revolt (either the people or the crony ruling) and kill Putin and put all the blame on him. In that sense, maybe it would be better for other country to forbid Russian from leaving (rich and common people). By leaving they kinda act like a release valve, where everyone that oppose the mobilization/war are leaving rather than working to overthrow the government.

 

[warmachine]

Russian army high command have cushy homes and don't want to see their corrupt, gravy train life become command of an overcrowded bunker in a nuclear winter with most of the supplies missing. Putin is reportedly arresting officers, demoting them, and making military decisions himself. A general given orders to launch will decide a coup is a better idea.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Is there any universe where Putin just goes "Okay I failed" and just call it quit and doesn't use nuke?

I think the big positive in that situation is that Russia hasn't openly stated any of its objectives. The goal of the special military operation is to "de-Nazify" Ukraine, but that can really mean whatever anyone wants.

Like, Russian negotiators could go in and say "hey, we want out of this war and we'll give you a bunch of concessions, but could you make a public statement that Nazism is bad" and then declare that this is a victory and that Putin heroically forced the Ukrainians not to be Nazis any more.

Or, if you want to be a bit more serious, Ukraine could agree to expel some of the foreign far-right militants who went to fight there. Russian TV gets to run segments about how all these bad Western Nazis are being driven out of Ukraine. 100% success rate.

I mean, failing all else the government can just lie. Just make up some nebulous strategic goal and then claim the operation succeeded. The US has done that several times without even having the kind of media stranglehold the Russian government does.

The argument is always that if Russia use nuke they'll be blown up in response, but Imagine Hitler had some nuke, would he really have just blown off his head in a bunker rather that throw all the nuke around in a hail mary?

I mean, Hitler was very clearly a true believer. He absolutely did believe in the ideological principles his government espoused, and part of those principles was an intense valorization of self-sacrifice.

Putin is not a true believer. He's a corrupt, overgrown security service agent. The country he was born into is dead and he's spent the rest of his life feeding off the carcass. He's become one of the richest people on the planet by stealing from his own government. Moreover, Putin will survive losing this conflict. He has succeeded in eliminating all viable alternatives to his own rule and fostering a climate of political disengagement which severely limits any kind of effective organization against him. The balance of power within the nation might change a bit, but he's pretty much golden regardless.

There are people in the Russian government and military who are true believers and who would be extremely terrifying if they ended up in charge, like Igor Girkin. In that sense, Putin is useful because he serves as a check against the influence of those people.

Also, given that members of the strategic rocket forces have been encountered fighting on the frontline in Ukraine, it's also not clear what state the strategic deterrent is actually in. If the RVSN has been gutted for manpower, it's going to be kind of difficult to bring them to any kind of readiness quickly.