Our Covid Response

[Silvanus]

A new symptom occurring 3 months after a covid infection doesn't mean covid caused said symptom.

If you want to dismiss 10 positive relationships between serology and long-term sickness as pure coincidence, that's your prerogative... but keep in mind that several other studies have also found biological indicators in LC sufferers that connect it to covid.

Why would you get symptoms from nothing? Nope, I've reiterated it many times, I'm using the same definition of long covid as the study used.

What do you mean "get symptoms from nothing"? You were the one originally saying people without acute respiratory infections were just as likely to have those long-term symptoms.

It's on you to prove your claim, which you haven't.

- Positive relationships in the data between 10 LC symptoms and positive serology for Covid.
- Biological indicators found linking it to covid.

He conveniently did a recap of the pandemic and his stances have been about as spot-on as you can get

No, his stances are about as reflective of your own positions as you can get. Hence why you're posting his guff.

Complacency, thy name is Phoenixmgs.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

You're hilariously delusional.

A summary of the study....
"Compared with 384 uninfected control subjects, those who tested positive for Covid had greater overall brain shrinkage and more grey matter shrinkage, particularly in areas linked to smell. For example, those who had Covid lost an additional 1.8% of the parahippocampal gyrus, a key region for smell, and an additional 0.8% of the cerebellum, compared with control subjects."


The citations used in the article you dismiss.

"There is strong evidence of brain-related abnormalities in COVID-19"1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13.

1. Paterson, R. W. et al. The emerging spectrum of COVID-19 neurology: clinical, radiological and laboratory findings. Brain 143, 3104–3120 (2020).
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3. Yang, A. C. et al. Dysregulation of brain and choroid plexus cell types in severe COVID-19. Nature 595, 565–571 (2021).
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16. Lechien, J. R. et al. Olfactory and gustatory dysfunctions as a clinical presentation of mild-to-moderate forms of the coronavirus disease (COVID-19): a multicenter European study. Eur. Arch. Otorhinolaryngol. 277, 2251–2261 (2020).
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Where's your equivalent in flat earth evidence?

And the quality of that study...? Did they do the proper adjustments because it's normal for people to leave brain matter as you age thus if the control group's average age was different...? I wonder why nobody is talking about covid shrinking people's brain like anywhere, not even the fear-mongering mainstream media has ever had that as a talking point.

If you want to dismiss 10 positive relationships between serology and long-term sickness as pure coincidence, that's your prerogative... but keep in mind that several other studies have also found biological indicators in LC sufferers that connect it to covid.



What do you mean "get symptoms from nothing"? You were the one originally saying people without acute respiratory infections were just as likely to have those long-term symptoms.



- Positive relationships in the data between 10 LC symptoms and positive serology for Covid.
- Biological indicators found linking it to covid.



No, his stances are about as reflective of your own positions as you can get. Hence why you're posting his guff.

Complacency, thy name is Phoenixmgs.

They aren't positive when you make adjustments. Of course in raw data you're gonna have these relationships pointing to covid because covid was the dominant viral infection in that time so you have to make adjustments. It's like averaging out a covid fatality among a population and telling a 10 year old they are at the same risk from covid as an 80 year old, that's completely not true at all. Are you saying you know more than these people that do this professionally?

I never said that.

The better studies are showing covid isn't anything special or unique to covid. The study I linked showed that as you look at symptoms when they happen and don't just use poor methods like ICD codes and administrative data, you see rather different things.

He knows the science. When have you proven a single thing he said that has been wrong. You link me to some hit-piece that has poor logic and does literally the same thing that they are accusing Prasad of doing. For example, explain to me how there is any proof of the CDC's claim that any mask is better than no mask. Where is there a real-world random study saying cloth masks actually work? That is what Prasad is asking for, actual evidence to support said claim. It doesn't mean that cloth masks for sure have no effect, it's that there's no evidence that cloth masks have any effect, thus you can't make that claim because there is no evidence to support that claim.

You're only posting stuff that's reflective of your own positions. When have you once changed your stance on anything with regards to covid because shit has changed a lot. Did you at least give up saying the vaccines stop transmission (that you were so gung ho about a month or so back)? Pfizer literally had to come out and say they never did a study about covid transmission and there's no study saying the vaccines do stop transmission while there's tons and tons and tons of real-world data saying they don't stop transmission. Will you at least admit outside masking is beyond stupid (and always has been) and say that schools should've never been closed?

 

[Silvanus]

They aren't positive when you make adjustments. Of course in raw data you're gonna have these relationships pointing to covid because covid was the dominant viral infection in that time so you have to make adjustments. It's like averaging out a covid fatality among a population and telling a 10 year old they are at the same risk from covid as an 80 year old, that's completely not true at all. Are you saying you know more than these people that do this professionally?

Firstly, you insist you know better than professional researchers all the time.

Secondly, you're making a clearly flawed assumption about what the adjustment actually was. They stated its a positive relationship between covid serology and long-term symptoms. So merely adjusting for covid's dominant position wouldn't explain that.

I never said that.

You repeatedly said it's nothing to do with covid.

The better studies are showing covid isn't anything special or unique to covid. The study I linked showed that as you look at symptoms when they happen and don't just use poor methods like ICD codes and administrative data, you see rather different things.

Nobody said long-term respiratory symptoms are unique to covid. But you said they were nothing to do with it. Which literally no study-- even your own-- have said.

He knows the science. When have you proven a single thing he said that has been wrong.

Ah, the same refrain you came out with for Paul Offit. "When has he ever been wrong?!"

Then, when i showed you a time when he was definitely and massively wrong that even he admits, you just endlessly handwave it and gripe that it doesn't count.

I'm not playing that game again. The article I provided already showed several instances of him using shoddy science.

 

[tippy2k2]

FYI for Americanos

I don't get why the government is so fucking bad at this though. They stopped doing the program because...shut up and now they're restarting the program and shipping them out on December 19th, just in time for many people to have their holiday parties and shit be done and over with by the time they get their tests.

 

[tstorm823]

FYI for Americanos

I don't get why the government is so fucking bad at this though. They stopped doing the program because...shut up and now they're restarting the program and shipping them out on December 19th, just in time for many people to have their holiday parties and shit be done and over with by the time they get their tests.

They stopped doing the program because it accomplished literally nothing. They brought it back because the companies that make the tests wanted money.

 

[tippy2k2]

They stopped doing the program because it accomplished literally nothing. They brought it back because the companies that make the tests wanted money.

I know two people alone in my life (that I know of for sure) that had gotten Covid but felt fine that the test showed they had it so peddle your stupid ass bullshit to someone else

 

[tstorm823]

I know two people alone in my life (that I know of for sure) that had gotten Covid but felt fine that the test showed they had it so peddle your stupid ass bullshit to someone else

Sounds like you know two people who probably upended their lives for a week or two for absolutely no benefit.

 

[Cheetodust]

Sounds like you know two people who probably upended their lives for a week or two for absolutely no benefit.

Well personally I'm glad I did a test and found I had covid last christmas. Would have really sucked to have killed my mother. But y'know, worrying about other people's health isn't very Christian.

 

[Cheetodust]

Firstly, you insist you know better than professional researchers all the time.

Secondly, you're making a clearly flawed assumption about what the adjustment actually was. They stated its a positive relationship between covid serology and long-term symptoms. So merely adjusting for covid's dominant position wouldn't explain that.



You repeatedly said it's nothing to do with covid.



Nobody said long-term respiratory symptoms are unique to covid. But you said they were nothing to do with it. Which literally no study-- even your own-- have said.



Ah, the same refrain you came out with for Paul Offit. "When has he ever been wrong?!"

Then, when i showed you a time when he was definitely and massively wrong that even he admits, you just endlessly handwave it and gripe that it doesn't count.

I'm not playing that game again. The article I provided already showed several instances of him using shoddy science.

Having fun?

 

[tippy2k2]

Well personally I'm glad I did a test and found I had covid last christmas. Would have really sucked to have killed my mother. But y'know, worrying about other people's health isn't very Christian.

Hey now, if the choice is between being inconvenienced for a week or two or potentially killing my mum, the choice is obvious (or in my case, giving Covid to my coworker whose husband has cancer but hey, MY convenience is the important thing here)!

I haven't been in this thread in a long while so I guess I never saw how absolutely fucking bonkers Covid deniers have gotten here. It's legitimately fucking disgusting.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I haven't been in this thread in a long while so I guess I never saw how absolutely fucking bonkers Covid deniers have gotten here. It's legitimately fucking disgusting.

Yeah, it's a weird one. The people spreading hatred about marginalised groups they are never going to be part of, that's sorta understandable, but the people trying to stop measures to reduce the severity of a pandemic that could kill them seems rather odd. I'd almost feel better if they turned out to be working for space lizards or something, that'd make more sense.

 

[tippy2k2]

Yeah, it's a weird one. The people spreading hatred about marginalised groups they are never going to be part of, that's sorta understandable, but the people trying to stop measures to reduce the severity of a pandemic that could kill them seems rather odd. I'd almost feel better if they turned out to be working for space lizards or something, that'd make more sense.

Like...you don't want the vax or to mask up, fine. I think you're playing with fire but ultimately that's your call and unless the government steps in to enforce it (actually enforce it, not that Mickey Mouse bullshit they've done in the past), there's nothing I can do.

But I at least thought that "if you are sick and you know for a fact that you have a sickness that you can pass along to others so stay home" was considered basic courtesy and not yet another MA FREEDUM hill to die on. As the meme goes, my bar was low but holy shit...

 

[BrawlMan]

But y'know, worrying about other people's health isn't very Christian.

Depends on who you're talking about. Besides, worrying about others isn't just a Christian thing, but a human thing. I get your sentiments and frustration. I make sure to get all of my shots every year to not only protect myself, but to protect my family, friends, and coworkers. Last month, I did both my flu shot and covid shot at the same time.

I know there's a lot of jack asses out there that hide behind religion not to be decent people, not do the right thing, or make up any justifications why they think themselves in the right. It isn't just people of Christian faith either, but they're the most vocal about it. Yet, there are plenty of others that know and gondo the right thing. Me being one of them. You are on that list as well someone doing the right and sensible thing.

 

[tstorm823]

Well personally I'm glad I did a test and found I had covid last christmas.

Were you sick? Then you should have stayed away with or without a test until you felt better.
Were you 100% asymptomatic? The chance of spread is low.
Were the people you would have spread it to vaccinated? The chance is even lower, and the risk is approaching completely negligible.

There's not reason to treat this different than the flu at this point. Like, there is no sense in going "wow, I feel really sick, better take a covid test to find out if I should stay away from public spaces."

 

[Buyetyen]

Were you sick? Then you should have stayed away with or without a test until you felt better.
Were you 100% asymptomatic? The chance of spread is low.
Were the people you would have spread it to vaccinated? The chance is even lower, and the risk is approaching completely negligible.

There's not reason to treat this different than the flu at this point. Like, there is no sense in going "wow, I feel really sick, better take a covid test to find out if I should stay away from public spaces."

Dude, could you not simp for a virus, please?

 

[Cheetodust]

Were you sick? Then you should have stayed away with or without a test until you felt better.
Were you 100% asymptomatic? The chance of spread is low.
Were the people you would have spread it to vaccinated? The chance is even lower, and the risk is approaching completely negligible.

There's not reason to treat this different than the flu at this point. Like, there is no sense in going "wow, I feel really sick, better take a covid test to find out if I should stay away from public spaces."

I developed symptoms 3 days after my test. So 3 days after I would have returned home.

Yes she was vaccinated. So was I. Still caught covid.

My mother is also elderly and immuno-compromised.

Again, would have really sucked to kill my mother even if it's a risk you're willing to take.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Were the people you would have spread it to vaccinated? The chance is even lower, and the risk is approaching completely negligible.

It's... interesting how cavalier you are with other peoples' lives.

 

[tstorm823]

It's... interesting how cavalier you are with other peoples' lives.

I'm not. I'm just treating this virus with the same level of concern that we treat everything else. Cars kill a huge number of people, but each individual car ride is of negligible risk. We accept tiny risks for major convenience all the time, not doing so is paranoia. That's chance of Cheeto's mom getting covid had that test not been taken is not high, people without symptoms statistically spread to about half a person, and the overwhelming majority of those transmissions are people you actively live with, leaving maybe a 10% chance you give it to someone you don't live with. The chance of death after catching it is like 1 in 100,000 among the vaccinated. It is literally a one-in-a-million risk even assuming you have covid to kill someone without having symptoms yourself. Taking someone on a one-day ski trip is as likely to kill them. Taking out that assumption that you have covid, the vast majority of people at any given moment are not infected. Now we're talking closer to 1 in a billion odds. A person who feels healthy and has no reason to think they have covid is at least as likely to win the Powerball as they are to kill someone with covid.

Shame me all you want, but healthy people taking covid tests because there are powerball level odds someone might die is wholly irrational. Quarantining people without symptoms for a week almost certainly has more dire downstream effects than that. The chance of Cheeto's mom dying of covid from the visit is genuinely comparable to the probability of her having a housefire that Cheeto could have been there to put out.

 

[BrawlMan]

I'm just treating this virus with the same level of concern that we treat everything else.

No you are not.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

I'm not. I'm just treating this virus with the same level of concern that we treat everything else. Cars kill a huge number of people, but each individual car ride is of negligible risk. We accept tiny risks for major convenience all the time, not doing so is paranoia. That's chance of Cheeto's mom getting covid had that test not been taken is not high, people without symptoms statistically spread to about half a person, and the overwhelming majority of those transmissions are people you actively live with, leaving maybe a 10% chance you give it to someone you don't live with. The chance of death after catching it is like 1 in 100,000 among the vaccinated. It is literally a one-in-a-million risk even assuming you have covid to kill someone without having symptoms yourself. Taking someone on a one-day ski trip is as likely to kill them. Taking out that assumption that you have covid, the vast majority of people at any given moment are not infected. Now we're talking closer to 1 in a billion odds. A person who feels healthy and has no reason to think they have covid is at least as likely to win the Powerball as they are to kill someone with covid.

Shame me all you want, but healthy people taking covid tests because there are powerball level odds someone might die is wholly irrational. Quarantining people without symptoms for a week almost certainly has more dire downstream effects than that. The chance of Cheeto's mom dying of covid from the visit is genuinely comparable to the probability of her having a housefire that Cheeto could have been there to put out.

I want to know what sources you draw all these assertions from. And don't pull your "proof is an unreasonable standard" bullshit this time.