Final Fantasy 16

[CriticalGaming]

Capcom's "redemption arc" started with Mega Man 11, MHW, and RE7. Neither three games I was interested in; especially RE7, but it was a start of a nice return to form.

Those boycotting ain't accomplishing shit!

Here's why some players plan to boycott Final Fantasy 16

Some Final Fantasy players have revealed they plan to boycott Final Fantasy 16 due to the development team's "continuou…

www.eurogamer.net

Do people actually give a shit about this? Are there actually people so racist that they'll play a video game and gradually get more and more angry about all the fucking white people around here!?

Oh here is an idea let's boycott the japanese game because everyone on the dev team was japanese. We really need to talk to Japan about having entire employment staffs with nothing but Japanese people. They really should be held accountable for diversity and really consider hiring random people on the basis of birth location. Frankly it's sickening that lack of diversity in Japanese workplaces in 2023, they should seriously get with the times you know?

What's that? " Although Japan is a highly ethnically homogenous country – 98.5% of the population is Japanese – it is considered a tolerant country, welcoming of visitors. "

Oh that's not an excuse thats a whopping 1.5% of people to choose from, and frankly planes exist they could import people from another country to help spread diversity.

What's that? Slavery?

They should PAY people to come there and be different! How dare a foreign country not adhere to my personal standards of morality. Do this countries not realize that I'm trying to save them from a serious inclusion problem?

 

[Dreiko]

The people who'd boycott a main FF game over pathetic issues like this are ones who would never get it to begin with. They're being spotlighted to generate clicks by profiteering websites, no real FF fan or gamer in general cares what they do.

 

[BrawlMan]

Do people actually give a shit about this? Are there actually people so racist that they'll play a video game and gradually get more and more angry about all the fucking white people around here!?

Apparently 40 of them do. That is 2.9%

The rest of the 24.3% are not picking up the game, but it's not for the lack of diversity. They were never interested in the game to begin with, but they have no problem with people buying and enjoying the game at all. The 72.8% are picking up the game.

Oh here is an idea let's boycott the japanese game because everyone on the dev team was japanese. We really need to talk to Japan about having entire employment staffs with nothing but Japanese people. They really should be held accountable for diversity and really consider hiring random people on the basis of birth location. Frankly it's sickening that lack of diversity in Japanese workplaces in 2023, they should seriously get with the times you know?

What's that? " Although Japan is a highly ethnically homogenous country – 98.5% of the population is Japanese – it is considered a tolerant country, welcoming of visitors. "

Oh that's not an excuse thats a whopping 1.5% of people to choose from, and frankly planes exist they could import people from another country to help spread diversity.

What's that? Slavery?

They should PAY people to come there and be different! How dare a foreign country not adhere to my personal standards of morality. Do this countries not realize that I'm trying to save them from a serious inclusion problem?

Those idiots ain't even worth the one page length. Me personally, I'd save it for the racist and sexist asshole causing actual harm with the death threats, rape threats, and harassments for having colored people and women exists in positive roles. The one's "boycotting" do not matter at all.

I'll let this guy say the rest:

Urban Scholar

Don't quote my Black ass.

But this is just 1 game that will sell millions.

So if you boycott this game for what was said ouloud:

Will you apply the same arbitrary energy to the next game that'll do the same, but won't say it?

Here's a better question, if you care so much, will you apply that energy to focus/support Black and Brown developers not attached to AAA games?

Even better question.

Will you take this energy to real life and actually support Black people? Because DEI doesn't stop real life anti Blackness.

Also slow clap for you if you think this boycott moves the needle. Bravo to you

PS be fucking for real.

Will You Boycott Final Fantasy 16 Due to The Lack of Diversity & Minority Characters?

So despite notable criticism and backlash online regarding the lack of diversity in the game, and square's continuously questionable response to the topic, it seems a lot of people are still planning to purchase FF16. This feels...a little odd to me, because it would seem like the best way to...

www.resetera.com

 

[CriticalGaming]

The people who'd boycott a main FF game over pathetic issues like this are ones who would never get it to begin with. They're being spotlighted to generate clicks by profiteering websites, no real FF fan or gamer in general cares what they do.

People who create boycotts over stupid superficial reasons are not the people who would be playing the games to begin with, they just want to stand on a soapbox. That was Anita Sarkeesian's whole thing, she preached about the sexist problems in video games but never played those games herself nor bothered to do any lick of research into what she was talking about in the first place.

These people are nothing but grifters and faux outrage artists.

 

[Silvanus]

Been watching some FF16 streams.

The combat looks like Devil May Cry. Every sword swipe hitting a half dozen enemies, throwing them in the air. Stunlocking them, striking them 20 more times while they can't move, then flying around the arena to the next target. Flashy anime fighting, basically. Doesn't look like Final Fantasy at all.

 

[BrawlMan]

That was Anita Sarkeesian's whole thing, she preached about the sexist problems in video games but never played those games herself nor bothered to do any lick of research into what she was talking about in the first place.

Even before diving into video games, she didn't do much research when critiquing tv shows, movies, or even music videos. See here Powerpuff Girls analysis, or don't. I recommend you don't; assuming it's still on YT. Sarkeesian has pretty much become forgotten (most young people don't even know she exists), aside from certain people in the industry that try to make her "relevant". It's to the point that, most of her hardcore fan base abandoned her by the late 2010s, because they wanted to know where their money went into her videos. The budget didn't look improved at all, and she got very tight lipped about it.

Doesn't look like Final Fantasy at all.

To you. Not the first time I've heard that on a mainline FF game. I've been hearing that shit since FFXI or FFXII. Honestly, XVI feels more like an FF game than XIII or XV ever did.

 

[Silvanus]

Even before diving into video games, she didn't do much research when critiquing tv shows, movies, or even music videos. See here Powerpuff Girls analysis, or don't. I recommend you don't; assuming it's still on YT. Sarkeesian has pretty much become forgotten (most young people don't even know she exists), aside from certain people in the industry that try to make her "relevant". It's to the point that, most of her hardcore fan base abandoned her by the late 2010s, because they wanted to know where their money went into her videos. The budget didn't look improved at all, and she got very tight lipped about it.


To you. Not the first time I've heard that on a mainline FF game. I've been hearing that shit since FFXI or FFXII. Honestly, XVI feels more like an FF game than XIII or XV ever did.

So, more than two other games which also abandoned most of the series' gameplay staples, and were some of the weakest entries? That ain't saying much.

It's fine if they want to go in another direction. I find it a shame that this other direction: A) leaves behind the elements that got me to fall in love with the series; and B) makes the combat look interchangeable with 3 or 4 other existing series i already wasn't interested in, rather than being something distinct or characteristic.

Blech to homogenisation.

 

[BrawlMan]

So, more than two other games which also abandoned most of the series' gameplay staples, and were some of the weakest entries? That ain't saying much

I disagree. It says a lot, you got Final Fantasy fans to this no difference to how RPG fans or ffns came in to the 7th main line entry.

It's fine if they want to go in another direction. I find it a shame that this other direction: A) leaves behind the elements that got me to fall in love with the series; and B) makes the combat look interchangeable with 3 or 4 other existing series i already wasn't interested in, rather than being something distinct or characteristic.

Blech to homogenisation.

I highly doubt Square left everything behind. I'm sure you'll get your subtle references and call backs or different universe takes of previous monsters and gods. I wouldn't call FF 16 pure homogenization. 13, 14 (at least before rebooting it), even 15 or more homogenized than 16 will ever be. You can't say they're not doing something different. Yes, the game is way more action focused in before, it has DMC style combat. Homogenization is not a bad thing, when done right I see this as them getting it right, and going into a different direction it's clear that inspirations for this game are Berserk and Game of Thrones. I'm not the biggest fan of either, but I have greater respect for the former.

Look, I know you're in a minority on this, but there are other options, if you're not interested that there are plenty of indie games that either emulate or use the old FF style format. That's said, I still feel like a chance. I'll be straight with you: 13 my brother and I could barely get past the first disc. We stopped playing after that. 14 I didn't play, because I don't do MMOs I know the game got better after the whole rebooting thing and restructuring, but I still wasn't interested. 15 you need to buy 10 different pieces of media in order to understand the story. Costing well more than $60 to get the full experience. FF16 is the most I've been interested in a Final Fantasy for a very long time. So when I do get a PS5 this will be one of the tiles I'm interested in playing. I don't care much for a majority of turn based RPGs. I barely tolerated them as a kid or teenager, got sick and tired of them by the time I was 18.

 

[Dreiko]

Been watching some FF16 streams.

The combat looks like Devil May Cry. Every sword swipe hitting a half dozen enemies, throwing them in the air. Stunlocking them, striking them 20 more times while they can't move, then flying around the arena to the next target. Flashy anime fighting, basically. Doesn't look like Final Fantasy at all.

Ever play Dissidia or watch Advent Children? That's kinda the ideal they're going for with combat for their more actiony stuff, been doing so for a while. I think if you wanna go in that direction, instead of whatever XV was you just basically ape DMC. It's definitely different but the vision is consistent.

 

[Silvanus]

I disagree. It says a lot, you got Final Fantasy fans to this no difference to how RPG fans or ffns came in to the 7th main line entry.

Sorry, I don't quite understand this paragraph, can you rephrase?

I highly doubt Square left everything behind. I'm sure you'll get your subtle references and call backs or different universe takes of previous monsters and gods.

Well yeah, but subtle references aren't enough to fit something into a series. Like, if the next mainline Zelda came out as an archery FPS, but keeping a few references to Tektites and Gohma, I'd still say it wouldn't feel like what I fell in love with Zelda for.

I wouldn't call FF 16 pure homogenization. 13, 14 (at least before rebooting it), even 15 or more homogenized than 16 will ever be. You can't say they're not doing something different. Yes, the game is way more action focused in before, it has DMC style combat. Homogenization is not a bad thing, when done right I see this as them getting it right, and going into a different direction it's clear that inspirations for this game are Berserk and Game of Thrones. I'm not the biggest fan of either, but I have greater respect for the former.

Agree to disagree about homogenisation being a negative. Homogenisation means less variety, less choice, less diversity of experience.

Look, I know you're in a minority on this, but there are other options, if you're not interested that there are plenty of indie games that either emulate or use the old FF style format. That's said, I still feel like a chance. I'll be straight with you: 13 my brother and I could barely get past the first disc. We stopped playing after that. 14 I didn't play, because I don't do MMOs I know the game got better after the whole rebooting thing and restructuring, but I still wasn't interested. 15 you need to buy 10 different pieces of media in order to understand the story. Costing well more than $60 to get the full experience. FF16 is the most I've been interested in a Final Fantasy for a very long time. So when I do get a PS5 this will be one of the tiles I'm interested in playing. I don't care much for a majority of turn based RPGs. I barely tolerated them as a kid or teenager, got sick and tired of them by the time I was 18.

Of course I know there are other options. I'm not insisting they cater to me; I'm just explaining why my personal interest is dropping. That's what we're here for, isn't it? Discussion of preferences goes both ways.

And yeah, 13 and 15 I consider weak entries, and also lacking in the series' combat and gameplay staples. But this doesn't look like an antidote to the poor run of form; it looks like leaning into it.

 

[Silvanus]

Ever play Dissidia or watch Advent Children? That's kinda the ideal they're going for with combat for their more actiony stuff, been doing so for a while. I think if you wanna go in that direction, instead of whatever XV was you just basically ape DMC. It's definitely different but the vision is consistent.

I did play some Dissidia and saw Advent Children, and thought they were balls. Pure style over substance. The vision is consistent... with the weakest earlier installments, like Dissidia, Advent Children, and FF15. It's not at all consistent with the strongest entries, which I'd consider 4 - 10.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Honestly just skimming through some of these posts makes me glad I haven’t played Final Fantasy or Devil May Cry in decades and I’m just coming into FF16 on its own terms without all this internet gamer[gate] baggage.

 

[BrawlMan]

Sorry, I don't quite understand this paragraph, can you rephrase?

Stupid Google speak. I said, " It says a lot, when you get non-fans invested into a final fantasy title. This is no different from how a lot of people became RPG fans and Final Fantasy fans, because of FF7.

Well yeah, but subtle references aren't enough to fit something into a series. Like, if the next mainline Zelda came out as an archery FPS, but keeping a few references to Tektites and Gohma, I'd still say it wouldn't feel like what I fell in love with Zelda for.

Ymmv. That depends on the person, and I bet you most fans are not going to complain about it.

Agree to disagree about homogenisation being a negative. Homogenisation means less variety, less choice, less diversity of experience.

That is a Black and White eay looking at things. Now don't get me wrong, I don't like complete homogenization either, but I wouldn't call all of FF 16 100% homogenization. It takes on a more stylish action RPG approach. There's nothing wrong with that. Like Max said in one of his videos, only the very super hardcore FF fans are going to have a problem with this. A majority of other fans and non-fans do not.

Of course I know there are other options. I'm not insisting they cater to me; I'm just explaining why my personal interest is dropping. That's what we're here for, isn't it? Discussion of preferences goes both ways.

I never said no implied the discussion goes both ways. You can do whatever you want, but I feel you're going overboard and being too hard on it.

And yeah, 13 and 15 I consider weak entries, and also lacking in the series' combat and gameplay staples. But this doesn't look like an antidote to the poor run of form; it looks like leaning into it.

For you and a few hardcore? Yes. For most others? No.

Honestly just skimming through some of these posts makes me glad I haven’t played Final Fantasy or Devil May Cry in decades and I’m just coming into FF16 on its own terms without all this internet gamer[gate] baggage.

You played Bayonetta 1 through 3 recently, so you're not far off the mark when it comes to DMC. Also, gamergate has nothing to do with whatever's going on with FF16 right now.

 

[Silvanus]

Stupid Google speak. I said, " It says a lot, when you get non-fans invested into a final fantasy title. This is no different from how a lot of people became RPG fans and Final Fantasy fans, because of FF7.


Ymmv. That depends on the person, and I bet you most fans are not going to complain about it.


That is a Black and White eay looking at things. Now don't get me wrong, I don't like complete homogenization either, but I wouldn't call all of FS 16 100% homogenization. It takes on a more stylish action RPG approach. There's nothing wrong with that. Like Max said in one of his videos, only the very super hardcore FF fans are going to have a problem with this. A majority of other fans and non-fans do not.

I never said no implied the discussion goes both ways. You can do whatever you want, but I feel you're going overboard and being too hard on it.

For you and a few hardcore? Yes. Try most others? No.

OK, a lot of this is really just saying most people are gonna like it.

I don't really see the point of that argument-- what do I care if they do? Good for them, glad they're having fun. Criticisms rested on personal preference don't require majority approval.

There's nothing "hardcore" about enjoying ATB/ turn-based combat and disliking DMC-style combat. And there's nothing "hardcore" about falling in love with a series because it did one, then losing interest when it does the latter. Associating that with "hardcore", when nothing of the sort was expressed, is some odd reverse snobbery.

 

[BrawlMan]

I don't really see the point of that argument-- what do I care if they do? Good for them, glad they're having fun. Criticisms rested on personal preference don't require majority approval.

I never said it did. You can do whatever the hell you want. All I ask is that you give the game a chance, if you choose to do so. Be happy you're even getting a new main line Final Fantasy game that looks mostly polished, and was not in a constantly bad production cycle. You're also getting FF7 REBIRTH. Though I don't remember your exact feelings on that one.

 

[sXeth]

I'm prettysure every FF has probably had its share of divisiveness, all told. The ones before FF8 benefitting a lot from internet discourse not being a thing. I'm not sure how you could have a "hardcore" fandom given other then a few reused names and the publisher its basically retooled itself multiple times, changed writerrs/directors, art style, actual genre, and a dozen other things.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Doesn't look like Final Fantasy at all.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the game not looking like Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy has always had wild anime boy elements. In FF7 you jump out of a building with a motorcycle, you go skydiving, snowboarding with insane flips and jumps, they all have their anime moments in them.

Also I really think it's a misconception when people say things like "X game is a departure from the combat of the previous games." Because every FF game has done that since the very beginning. While they've been somewhat turn-based depending on how much you wanna fight about the ATB system, every game has had drastically different combat due to the system around it. Just calling them turn based doesn't really mean anything when you have Job systems, or Materia, or Junctioning, or gear abilities, or paradigms, or warp strikes, or blitz's. Every FF game has build combat off a different system that goes way beyond "turn based".

This game looks about as FF as any other game in the series to me, and the strict middle ages era means it fits more into the FF looks than FF7, 13, 15, 10, or 6.

So I'm wondering what exactly you're getting at.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I'm prettysure every FF has probably had its share of divisiveness, all told. The ones before FF8 benefitting a lot from internet discourse not being a thing. I'm not sure how you could have a "hardcore" fandom given other then a few reused names and the publisher its basically retooled itself multiple times, changed writerrs/directors, art style, actual genre, and a dozen other things.

Yeah I think there are more universally hated FF games, than universally liked. I'd say 13 is probably most hated and X is the most liked if I had to pick ones. But either way there is always debate.

 

[Silvanus]

I never said it did. You can do whatever the hell you want. All I ask is that you give the game a chance, if you choose to do so. Be happy you're even getting a new main line Final Fantasy game that looks mostly polished, and was not in a constantly bad production cycle. You're also getting FF7 REBIRTH. Though I don't remember your exact feelings on that one.

On FF7 Remake, I think the environments look stunning and I'll probably play them just to run around a well rendered Midgar. The combat looks more tactical than FF15 amd FF16. But it does irritate me that they're telling a very different story, which reads to me like fanfiction-- Sephiroth appealing to Cloud to join him in defying fate!? That would be absurdly out of character in the story of FF7, in which Sephiroth is scarcely aware of who Cloud even is.

 

[BrawlMan]

The combat looks more tactical than FF15 amd FF16.

Debatable with 16, but you do have more characters to deal with, and can actually. One ain't exactly better over the other, but a style of preference. The irony is that in FF7R, if you customize and mix up the right materia, you can have Cloud or Tifa a play like a DMC/Platinum games character.

But it does irritate me that they're telling a very different story, which reads to me like fanfiction-- Sephiroth appealing to Cloud to join him in defying fate!? That would be absurdly out of character in the story of FF7, in which Sephiroth is scarcely aware of who Cloud even is.

I don't mind doing a different approach to the story, but this is exactly why I didn't like them splitting the game into three parts in the first place. Who knows what's going on. For all we know Seph-Dog is probably just dicking around and trolling Cloud again. I wouldn't take everything the trailer says at face value.