Maybe if the Russians look deep into themselves they'll find that the T14 has always been there, in their hearts.
Ukraine
- Thread starter Silvanus
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Sooooo confirm Prigozhin is megatron? DOes that make Putin starscream and Zelenskyy Optimus Prime?
- May 6, 2020
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I don't know much about Tranformers lore.
But doesn't Starscream keep betraying people? If so, Prigozhin is a better fit.,
Yep, as did I-- including much more damning stuff, considering some of it comes directly from founders and commanders. For a company many times the size, receiving enormously higher state funding, and engaged in many more offensive manoeuvres around the world, all of which you've dismissed or excused.
If you think Russia gives a solitary fuck about "de-Nazifying", while simultaneously being the world's foremost financier and employer of neo-Nazis by a gigantic margin, you're deluding yourself.
I am not so sure that what you are describing as 'the tip of the iceberg' is not actually 'scraping the bottom of the barrel'. In any case, we should expect a larger organization that is equally problematic in some certain way to have proportionately more evidence of that problem. No?
Quibbling over details aside, you think we should give money and weapons to one group of Nazis. I think it should be zero. That's the difference between us on this issue.
No, the difference is that you are happy to sell out over 40 million people to be invaded and dominated by neighbouring a Nazi regime just because a few hundred of those 40 million formed a neo-Nazi militia. The rest of us think your priorities are fucked.
if you have to so severely downplay the extent of Ukraine's Nazi problem to make your point, maybe it just isn't worth making.
Yeah, commanding officers stating multiple times, "I'm a Nazi, I'm a Nazi" is really reaching.
Proportionately more has been provided, and proportionately more is available-- I posted a fraction of what a search brought up.
Then of course, we also have the utter depravity exhibited by the other factions under Russian command. Concentration camps for gay people run by the Kadyrovites; mass torture of civilians in Bucha and a dozen other towns; intentional targeting of civilian areas, hospitals and schools, on a scale unseen in Europe since WW2; a litany of sickening war crimes, far outstripping a hundredfold anything the AFU has ever approached.
It's not a competition of who's worse. The point is that it shows the Russian invasion has nothing to do with that. Its always been an excuse, from the very beginning, to justify annexation and slaughter.
Well no, I think we should give money and weapons to the AFU specifically for defence of its own territory from imperial invasion.
Meanwhile, you have zero problem with the Russian state providing >£3 billion to a neo-Nazi company for the purpose of invading the territory of others.
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Honestly, even if the Ukraine was full of Nazis (it is not), it still would be appropriate to help them fight a freaking invasion instead of letting Russia renormalize conquest.
Take a look in the mirror and think about Russia, buddy.
When you think a whole country needs to be punished for its small fascist minority by handing it over to the dominance of a fascist imperialist state intent on destroying its culture, your view of the situation is hopelessly broken.
Stop pretending you care who lives in Ukraine. Your position here is based on the US, if Ukraine was a communist utopia that was friendly to the US, you'd still side with Russia.
didn't say it was a reach. said it might be scraping the barrel-- different concepts, though it is possible for some things to be both.Yeah, commanding officers stating multiple times, "I'm a Nazi, I'm a Nazi" is really reaching.
I see a lot of AFU Nazism without even using a search engine. That suggests a difference in scale. And I've said it before, but so many of these supposedly unique sources about "Wagner" all seem to use the same pictures of the same people as far as I've seen. Putting a bunch of mirrors facing the same bit of evidence does not actually multiply it.
And yet you keep posting disputed allegations of war crimes as if they are fact.
obvious non sequitur
I don't live in Russia. I do live in the place that provides Ukraine the vast majority of its defense spending, that participated in the overthrow of its government by right-wing militias, and has sought to provoke Russia by arming and training the armed forces of Ukraine to the purpose of destroying Russian-speaking separatist movements and taking over Russia's Black Sea naval base.
Their government literally advertises their "small number" of neo-Nazis as great heroes. Constantly. And a large number of the people fleeing the war in Ukraine fled to Russia. You want them to keep dying in a war that for Ukraine looks like a pointless affectation unless the sole consideration is the number of Russian dead regardless of the cost in Ukrainian lives.
If Ukraine was a communist utopia, it wouldn't be friendly to the US for very long if ever. The US and friends would be attempting to overthrow it if not invade it outright. They do the same even to tepid social democrats like Lula or Morales. And no such government is the result of a US-supported coup like the Maidan. From a contradiction anything can follow: your hypothetical situation would entail a world so different that any consideration of what my politics would be in that world yields just a series of questions and no answers. Opposition to the United States is not at all foundational to my politics: it is contingent on the history and actions of the United States and its ruling class. The history and actions of the United States foreclose the possibility that a communist utopia would be friendly to it for any significant length of time.
In the real world, Ukraine bans its communist and socialist parties, television stations, and so forth, jails its communist organizers and the people live in terror of neo-Nazi militias turned police departments and army units. Just like Victoria Nuland wanted.
You don't live in Ukraine either.
Weirdly, the justness or otherwise of the global geopolitical order is not actually conditional on where you personally happen to live. You're not the moral axis around which the world revolves. You're not actually important at all, you're just American. Contrary to what you may have been taught, those two things are not in any way synonymous.
I could accept that this is perhaps an argument of political utility, except it's clearly not. You have stated many, many times that you do not believe you live in a democracy, and thus the actions of your government do not matter since you have no more capacity to influence them than you do Russia's government.
Your government, for that matter, are not the secret masters of the world and you are not the rebel alliance fighting to bring them down. Here in reality, your government is a bunch of rich old men who can't see beyond the few years of life they have left, and you will live the rest of your miserable existence in a capitalist hellscape without making a single bit of difference to anyone except maybe the people who love you, and even then only because they don't matter either.
It could be worse though. You could live in Ukraine, or Russia.
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Right, except... everyone else isn't seeing it just cropping up for them in their feeds.
I'd say this is probably a direct result of the online environments you spend time in, and the content you interact with, influencing what gets presented to you.
Disputed by the perpetrator, just like any war crime.
We have troves of documentary evidence, independent researchers, and direct survivor testimony. But yes, it's easy to consider anything "disputed" if you automatically dismiss all supportive evidence as propaganda, and assume all survivors are crisis actors.
I also find it quite funny that you would say this, when you posted that video of corpses thrown into a pit and confidently attributed it to Ukrainian forces... because someone on Twitter had said so. And then the longer version of the video emerged (which that Twitter fella must have edited) showing the perpetrators wearing Russian military uniforms.
You're repeating the Russian government line that the invasion was prompted by the presence of a neo-Nazi contingent in Ukraine. It is directly relevant to point out that the Russian government has no issue with neo-Nazis, and in fact employs and finances them more than any other world power, and that from this we can conclude that line is a smokescreen for other motives.
Luckily for you-- the Russian government would long ago have 'disappeared' you if you were vocal about left wing causes there.
The rest of the paragraph is just a regurgitation of the same old narrative.
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You aren't actually denying the point though, that the people of Ukraine are irrelevant to your opinions here. "The history and actions of the United States" are determining your position. Based on what you've said, if Ukraine was a communist utopia, you'd still declare it fascist because your worldview doesn't allow the possibility of the US allying with communists, but that still makes the actual people there irrelevant and your position based off the US rather than Ukraine.