Funny events in anti-woke world
- Thread starter Agema
- Start date
The only movie that comes to mind with a villain protagonist that I haven't seen rightoids hold up as some kind of hero is Nightcrawler.
Deadpool was a villain before becoming an anti-hero. Wolverine also started as a villain too. Hiei, Ren Tao, Vegeta...we can go on all night.
About that....
It's funny how feeble the mind becomes, when it wants to forget. I bet you, if anyone showed them all of the males examples, the fuckwads would either count them as "exceptions" or "crappy examples".
Last edited:
I have not seen these people. I have seen all the others, but I have never seen Lou Bloom fans.
Well, some of them exists. This is is news to me too. I've never watched Nightcrawler, but I am more than aware of Lou.
Irrelevant side-note: I'd highly recommend Nightcrawler, its a great movie. Lou is a wretch, both pitiable and despicable, though it doesn't entirely surprise me to learn some people have completely misunderstood his character. But yeah, great movie, give it a watch.
Not that it undermines your overall point, but these two don't count on this list. They were both made to be heroes in their original source material, and you could tell Zuko was a good guy from episode 1.
Ah, don't want to block the discussion: But the examples given are not of villainous female characters but: Female villains, which got a feature after their use as a villain, and have them as a sympathetic protagonist. (Mostly decades later, with added backstories).
So, this post still stands.
I don't like it for other reasons. While the IDEA of making a movie/series about and centered on a well-known, iconic villain is a great idea (I freaking love villains - nearly always more entertaining as the "boring conservative hero"), i think the problem ist just this "we need to cram likeability into this, no moral grey. No hard questions."
We do have a few classic villain characters: reimagined, rebuild and male. The "Joker" Movie, for example. But i think a lot more of this weird inoffensive female disney-villain variety. Is there a inoffensive male "ex-villain" movie. Have to think about it.
Overall: i demand more movies straight up following (entertaining) evil people doing evil shit. Come on, don't you want a Cruella movie showing her murdering and cheating her way to the top by killing endangered exotic animals and throw her (strict but nice) boss under the bus for it? But we just got a defanged "Girl Boss with talent makes it against petty evil assholes". Also she has/likes some dogs Or dogs help her at the end... Eh
Last edited:
Zuko and Shadow started as villains before becoming heroes. Where they ended up doesn't change where they started.
And as I pointed out, this isn't limited to female villains. This happens to male villains as well and has been happening for much longer. People only notice it with female villains because there are few of them compared to their male counterparts (this applies to heroes as well).
Disney only started getting into this trend recently. They have a far longer history of making unsympathetic female villains. Ironically, Ursula wasn't even a villain in the original novel version of The Little Mermaid.
Loki, Joker and Venom come to mind as just a few examples. Loki and Venom faced less pushback than Cruella and Malificent, the biggest objection the Joker movie was that it would inspire more mass shootings.
And as I said, Sony has been trying to make heroes out of Spider-Man villains since 2016.
Also, in AtLA it's the male antagonist who gets redeemed and the female antagonist who succumbs to complete insane villiany, eventhough she is shown to have humanity.
The whole humanizing older villains has little to do with gender and everything to do with popularity and marketability. Both Maleficent and Cruella are very iconic villains with memorable looks, while Gaston and Frolo have an ickiness to them that makes them not the most appealing outside of their villain status.
And if you want a version of Frollo that is treated sympathetically in spite of his vile actions, you can just read the original novel version of The Hunchback of Notre Dame.
A heroic version of Gaston would basically just be Hercules, Eric or Philip and those guys don't have the baggage Gaston comes with.
Speaking of Hercules, the male villain in that movie was pretty much the most likeable and popular character there. Ironic considering who James Woods is, but I'm sure some Disney executive has crunched the numbers to gage if Hades' popularity could warrant somekind of prequel origin movie.
Hades prequel: “and it turned out Hades became evil because his dad ate him as a kid”
A heroic Hades would technically be more accurate to Greek mythology than what the movie gave us.
Hm, i thought Loki had protagonist-material from WAY before, back in the 80ies comics... but a quick search (I am not that into the comics, just had a friend "teaching me" in school, hehe) reveals that those stuff seems to have been cropping up after the modern movies (2012). Don't know... So yeah, it seems that would perfectly count. (Him getting a series where he is smoother, sympathetic and non-threatening after trying to conquer the world.)
But Venom for example already was envisioned as flexible and had his own comics. (I mean, yeah first villain, than antihero, then hero) - But way back before any movies. It seems more of the Zeitgeist of the rad/extreme/edgy 90ies. No sudden from-the-top demanding to reimagine that black evil spiderman-guy. More organic.
All it really does is prove how full of crap the sexist jackass is really are with your examples. I'm more or less said the same thing earlier. So nothing new, and it's just spoiled buttholes crying over nothing and feeling like they're owed something when they've already got what they wanted a million times over. They just want to forget or are that stupid and ignorant of the situations.
Zuko was a protagonist from the first episode. Shadow was a in a heroic pose on the cover of the game case. Their role in the plot was always to be heroes from the moment you first see them. Being a jerk for a part of the story does not make a character a villain.
Man you suck at this. It's called villain protagonist journey to hero or antihero. Even with these type of subjects you can't get it right.
Villains can be protagonists too.
What heroic pose?
The game's advertising outright refers to Shadow as evil.
Trying to destroy the world and framing someone else for your crimes is a bit more than "being a jerk".