Except the minorities in israel have the same rights as the jews. There is some racial discriminations but nothing like apartheid, its not even as bad as black people were treated in the US before civil rights.
You're going to have to look further back then that. One of the earliest incidents was the 1929 palistine riots. You are trying to simplify an incredibly complex situation.
Well, right now it seems like hamas has their support, according to polls. Which I am a bit hesitant to trust since A. hamas has a tendency to be as violent to other arabs as it does jews and B. seems like all the attack did was get them fucked.
So then the jews at the music festival were asking for it? You just want your brownie points for being a centrist.
No, they were simply raised in a country that told them the people on the otherside of the wall were sub-human and they didn't need to worry about how these people were being horribly mistreated and how they might seek some retaliation for that.
You might want to look up want that word means then.
Religious and ethnic minorities do not enjoy the same protections. For decades, Israel had discriminatory practices favouring Jewish applications for business. Then we have systemic discrimination in employment, policing, and dozens of other sectors, tacitly approved by Likud and other far-right governing parties. And then we have the fact that Israel routinely violates the legal rights of Gazans and citizens of the West Bank-- to the point of demolishing their homes, extrajudicially executing them in the streets, and cutting off their vital resources, even in peacetime.
www.pewresearch.org
As someone who studied this area in H.E., I can assure you I'm not.
Oh, polls! That's an adequate reason to consider an entire demographic complicit in the actions of their government, a militia who seized power with the assistance of their own declared enemy! Fucking No. Not to mention how collective punishment is itself a contravention of international law.
Sounds like exactly what I said about blacks in the US.
Seems like you are still trying to make it an easy to understand good/badguy kinda thing.
Don't give me that bullshit, I know you are not stupid.
Literally all you said about black Americans was about their experience pre-civil rights. So, uhrm, yeah, if you want to equate the situation of Palestinians with black Americans before civil rights, go right ahead-- that just destroys your claim that they have equal rights, though.
Because I objected to you characterising Israeli violence as solely a reaction to Palestinian violence? That's the opposite-- I'm refusing a naive good/bad approach you originally took.
On the contrary, it's very relevant: you're insinuating that the wider demographic can be held accountable for the actions of the government it didn't choose-- based on utterly flimsy reasoning-- and then taking it further to undermine sympathy for civilian targets of war crimes. That's obvious collective punishment bullshit.
it truly doesn't matter for this purpose whether that government was chosen as it was acting within its rights against an invader whose existence is founded upon the massacre and displacement of their people; Israel does not have a 'right to self defense' against Palestinian resistance while Palestinians have a right to resist irrespective of whether that resistance is undertaken as the result of a democratic process. The issue of blame for that resistance catastrophically misses the point.
Quit being a genocide apologist.
www.amnesty.org
No, I'm talking about arab israelies, not palastinians. Palestinians aren't citizens of israel. The live in an occupied region, which is one of the many reasons this is a really complex issue.
No, the thing that really annoys me is when people seem to be saying its one sided. Both sides are assholes to each other, but it seems like online, people handwave hamas and the palastinians being assholes, in favor of just blaming israel for everything. I do feel that palistinian or hamas violence does tend to instigate israeli violence more often, but that is because there are more watch dogs for israel and israel has to worry more about international pressure. We only saw israel go this far after a pretty big hamas attack and they are suffering for it on the international stage. You can argue if that is enough or not, but its some pushback, doesn't seem like hamas gets really any other then being called/handwaved as a terrorist organization.
Its also the history of warfare. Innocents will always be killed. For the situation in palastine its even more complicated since hamas loves to launch attacks from civilian areas and has a history of hiding fighters in civilian clothes and hiding weapons in civilian buildings. In an ideal world only bad people would be punished for bad actions, but thats not what happens in the real world.
I know you originally meant Arab Israelis. I widened the conversation to show another group of people, for whom Israel also has responsibility, who are routinely denied basic rights and protections.
If you look back through this thread you'll see that I've condemned Hamas as well. Whereas you, here and now, are the one acting as if its one-sided, and that one side should be largely absolved and the responsibility for both sides' actions should rest on the other.
This is not, and has never been, a valid excuse for war crimes.
Calm yourself down, because you're going too far with that (and because that's not what "dancing on someone's grave" means).
Without wanting to derail the thread, the situation in the UK in WW2 was, I believe, more complicated. Though a lot of that was which suburbs got funding for air defences and bomb shelters and the like.
I'm sure you'd describe it as an even-handed and fair one.
You can't build a house in the West Bank, the settlements are almost everywhere, and the IDF is bombing Gaza. In 20 years people will see the current-day IDF as a more recent South Africa.
