Democrats already proposing austerity before DNC even ends

[lil devils x]

snip

You do realize that Biden came from a blue collar family right? His dad was a used car salesman and they lived in a multifamily household because they could not even afford their own place. No matter how you attempt to spin it, letting Trump win would be insanely worse for everyone right now. Hell Trump wanted to remove citzenship from the poor and sell them to Greenland he hates them so much.. We need the bills that are collecting dust that the democrats passed in the house passed. Biden WILL sign them. Your image there falls pretty flat in the face of reality.

 

[Eacaraxe]

You do realize that Biden came from a blue collar family right? His dad was a used car salesman and they lived in a multifamily household because they could not even afford their own place.

No matter how you attempt to spin it, letting Trump win would be insanely worse for everyone right now.

I saw what happened between January 20, 2009, and January 9, 2017. The Obama admin did jack shit to roll back any of the Bush administration's most egregious failures and libidinous urges; in fact, the Obama admin normalized and expanded upon them. You may see Biden as harm mitigation, I see Biden as harm obfuscation. And that's what all this is really about, "normalcy" as defined by "not having to hear about the country's problems any more". This is a referendum on aesthetics, not policy.

Trump isn't a damn thing but an honest Republican politician. He doesn't hide his bullshit. And that's what gets people's jimmies rustled.

We need the bills that are collecting dust that the democrats passed in the house passed. Biden WILL sign them. Your image there falls pretty flat in the face of reality.

All those bills that only ever seen to materialize when they have no realistic chance of being signed into law, so Democratic legislators can go back to their constituencies, lie about having done something, then blame the Republicans for their failure instead of taking the fight to Republicans and organizing direct action? The ones that always mysteriously, magically, seem to end up neutered and/or poison pilled when they do have a realistic chance of being signed into law?

Sorry, the notion Congressional Democrats are worth their weight in diarrhea died between January 3, 2007, and January 3, 2011.

 

[lil devils x]

Snip

Bullshit. That wasn't " an appeal to pity" you posted propaganda pushing the " elite liberal" BS that Democrats didn't care about blue collar votes when Biden isn't even a " elite liberal" candidate. He IS a blue collar candidate and has a history of fighting for blue collar workers so that entire line of attack was garbage.

Trump is the LEAST honest president we have ever had and I have no idea why you would think that the guy who can't open his mouth without lying should even exist in the same sentence with " honest". go ahead and compare their records, you need to get your facts straight before you shill for Trump:

PolitiFact | Donald Trump

PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter.

www.politifact.com

PolitiFact | Joe Biden

PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter.

www.politifact.com

‘Tsunami of untruths’: Trump has made 20,000 false or misleading claims – report

Washington Post’s Fact Checker says Trump hit the milestone on 9 July, a day on which he delivered 62 such claims

www.theguardian.com

Trump, according to his own " best people" is delusional, dangerous and refuses to acknowledge reality. This coming from Trump's most trusted advisors. Trump invented " alternative facts":for a reason. You claiming he is honest in any way is beyond laughable at this point.

I can't take anything you say seriously after claiming that Trump is an honest Republican.. Nope that destroyed all credibility. Not even other Republicans attempt to claim he is an honest Republican. He claims to have all positions on everything and can't open his mouth without lying. You would have to be living under a rock not to know this already.


What gets people' jimmies rustled" is that Trump is a delusional, dangerous conman that is using the government as a weapon against the people and his only focus in office is trying to fill his own pockets and self preservation. He ordered Fema to stop making payments to victims in California because he claimed they didn't support him and wanted to punish them and make them suffer, the postal service just testified that he was intentionally trying to slow down the mail to damage the election, His former chief of staff for the Department of Homeland security just told us he plans to use the Department of justice to contest the election because he does not plan on leaving the white house if he loses and is too unstable to be trusted with the NUKES. You really need to open your eyes here, THIS is what is coming from the " pro Trump republicans" and Trumps most trusted people right now. The man literally tried to strip citizenship from millions of Americans and trade them to Greenland because they were " dirty and poor" and he didn't want them to be a part of the US anymore. There is NOTHING Biden could do that could remotely touch ANY of this.

Bush was an honest republican, Trump is just a psychopath. That isn't an exaggeration here. You need to keep up with what his advisers are telling us Trump is doing here.

 

[deleted20220709]

DELETED

 

[SupahEwok]

Technically that's not blue collar. Blue collar tends to refer to manual labor, often in industry. A used car salesman is closer to a white collar, albeit lacking the high income one might associate with typical white collar work.

Even besides that, I'm not going to go so far as throwing around labels like "class traitor", but I'm not going to call an old man who has spent 40 years in the highest halls of government in both the legislative and the executive "blue collar" no matter his childhood.

 

[Eacaraxe]

Bullshit. That wasn't " an appeal to pity" you posted propaganda pushing the " elite liberal" BS that Democrats didn't care about blue collar votes when Biden isn't even a " elite liberal" candidate.

So, by your definition a United States Senator for 36 years, and a Vice President for eight, doesn't make one a policy elite. Got it. Doesn't matter where he came from or how he grew up, he still has a JD which means he's in the top 13.1% of US citizens by education, and we just have to ignore that. We're just supposed to doublethink around everything that happened in Joe Biden's life after the age of eleven, just because he wasn't Ivy League-educated or a Fulbright scholar.

And guess not, not one whit of that matters, because I'm focused on one thing alone: what he said and did in office. Please, point to anywhere in any post on this thread I called Biden "elite" or even "liberal" in the first place, because otherwise you're just pulling red herrings out your ass to try to change the subject away from Joe Biden's record. One, Biden's not liberal, he's a conservative; two, that he was "only" a multi-millionaire after leaving office in 2017 despite 44 years in federal politics just makes him a cheap date for the donor class.

He IS a blue collar candidate and has a history of fighting for blue collar workers so that entire line of attack was garbage.

Citation needed. Because I'd direct you to his NAFTA vote alone (which was 'yea') as proof positive of the exact opposite.

Trump is the LEAST honest president we have ever had and I have no idea why you would think that the guy who can't open his mouth without lying should even exist in the same sentence with " honest". go ahead and compare their records, you need to get your facts straight before you shill for Trump:

We've been through this before, I don't give a damn what stupid shit spews out of his mouth. I give a damn whether the stupid shit that spews out of his mouth is consistent with his policy, and guess what, it by and large is. He does the same shit as any other contemporary Republican would have done in his place, the difference between him and other Republicans is he doesn't polish the turds he feeds the American public.

That's what you don't get, what you doublethink and doublespeak around, and what you deliberately ignore. These Lincoln Project cocksuckers, Kasich, the McCain family, Bolton, Romney, all these pathologically dishonest and professionally-wrong assholes who claim to be "never Trump Republicans" don't have a problem with his overall policy. Not one whit. Half of them advocate for the exact same shit.

The one policy dust-up over the last four years in which these dumbfucks broke from Trump's policy -- not his rhetoric, his policy -- was the time he didn't start World War III with Iran.

Not one of those idiots is one iota less "fascist" than Trump. They just pretend they're not fascist. And that's why this election is a referendum on aesthetics, the choice between Biden and Trump boils down to whether we want to tell the truth to ourselves that we are, in fact, a fascist country and have been for years before Trump was ever inaugurated in the first place.

Bush was an honest republican, Trump is just a psychopath.

Nothing says "honesty in governance" like lying to start a war that racked up a civvie body count so high it would have been unequivocally called genocide had any other country did it, and covering up dozens of war crimes committed during it.

 

[Tireseas]

Even besides that, I'm not going to go so far as throwing around labels like "class traitor", but I'm not going to call an old man who has spent 40 years in the highest halls of government in both the legislative and the executive "blue collar" no matter his childhood.

That may be true, but his political brand remains solidly blue collar all the same.

There was a "blue collar caucus" in the congress at one point, where the members were effectively former blue collar workers, but it's all but non-existent due to multiple factors, not the least of which is the denigration of politician as a career generally and the persona time and labor costs of effectively running for election (money is also a factor, but I would argue that just taking the time-off necessary to campaign effectively, with low odds of even being nominated, is going to be more of a hurtle than just the money itself), it's all but nonexistent.

God, I miss footnotes...

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Even besides that, I'm not going to go so far as throwing around labels like "class traitor", but I'm not going to call an old man who has spent 40 years in the highest halls of government in both the legislative and the executive "blue collar" no matter his childhood.

I wanted to bring up Rockefeller and how he was a legit poor person in his youth but still became one of the richest men of his time. And most people don't consider that relevant when talking about him.

 

[Buyetyen]

No dude, we're not all going to protest vote because you had the sads.

 

[Seanchaidh]

I disagree that it "flies in the face of his entire career".

Your agreement is not required. Here he is in his own words:

Him being a moderate does not mean he is going to hurt the poor here.

It meant he would hurt those with student loans. It meant he would hurt black children (thankfully in a measure that failed) with his opposition to school integration by busing. It meant that he would hurt poor and black communities with the crime bill that he wrote and proposed several times and eventually did pass. It meant that he would hurt the poor with the 1996 welfare reform bill.

Hell, if he plans " austerity" for the wealthy on the other hand in order to provide the necessary services to the poor that he has been proposing and reduces corporate welfare, I am not seeing that as a bad thing.

That would be great. It's also 100% not happening.

Biden didn't come from wealth, he grew up in a multifamily household struggling to survive and understand what real people actually go through here to survive.

That just makes his political career all the more inexcusable.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

No dude, we're not all going to protest vote because you had the sads.

Buyetyen, out of curiosity, how does one pronounce your name?

 

[Buyetyen]

Buyetyen, out of curiosity, how does one pronounce your name?

Boo-YET-yen. It's Coptic, a nerdy little reference only I and like 4 other will ever get.

 

[lil devils x]

Technically that's not blue collar. Blue collar tends to refer to manual labor, often in industry. A used car salesman is closer to a white collar, albeit lacking the high income one might associate with typical white collar work.

When my brother was selling used cars, he had to actually repair the vehicles, to clean the cars, clean the shop and clean the parking lot as well. It is actually more blue collar than some may realize. Besides, they couldn't even afford a roof over their heads and had to move back in with Biden's grandparents to survive. I am not sure what selling used cars is like in other nations, but that is pretty standard for the US. Selling new cars on the other hand isn't blue collar, there is a big difference though between the two. Being a used car salesman in the US you pretty much are expected to be a mechanic, street cleaner, car wash and maid service as well, all blue collar jobs.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I'm not buying it. Biden is just trying to get support where he needs it from specific people who want to hear about " balanced budgets". Once he has their support, he is going to go back to his actual campaign plan that he has already made promises for. Once he is elected, he doesn't need their support anymore and he can go back to his plan all along. People really need to stop reading too much into these deals that come up every election campaign regardless of who is running. Reminds me of the nonsense they tried to put out about Bernie selling the people out and that was just as false as this nonsense is here. Like I said before:
Democrats have conservatives, Moderates, and progressives
Republicans have conservatives and far right.

For the democrats to win they have to bribe, beg borrow and steal all the conservative and moderate votes they can get their hands on to get the majority. THAT is exactly what Biden is doing right now. HE is doing what it takes to get the majority by any means possible. That does not suddenly mean he is going to be a traitor to his party simply because he IS doing what is needed to win the regions we have to gain to get a majority. He is at the point he has to do and say whatever it takes to get their support because without it, he will lose. That will have no impact on what will happen once he is actually in the white house, Instead all of those Bills the house passed that are collecting dust right now that will actually help the people? Remember those? Those will finally get passed.

Man, of all the things to click to see, this has to be the best. This puts a smile on my face and a spring in my step, seeing how much you have to deny reality to keep your little world going.

This is precisely what people were telling you was going to happen, based on historical evidence that this is exactly the kind of person Biden is. The only downside is that if Biden wins and thus, do all this, you'll still blame Republicans instead of acknowledging that this is what Biden does.

So in short, no, you're wrong.

 

[lil devils x]

So, by your definition a United States Senator for 36 years, and a Vice President for eight, doesn't make one a policy elite. Got it. Doesn't matter where he came from or how he grew up, he still has a JD which means he's in the top 13.1% of US citizens by education, and we just have to ignore that. We're just supposed to doublethink around everything that happened in Joe Biden's life after the age of eleven, just because he wasn't Ivy League-educated or a Fulbright scholar.

And guess not, not one whit of that matters, because I'm focused on one thing alone: what he said and did in office. Please, point to anywhere in any post on this thread I called Biden "elite" or even "liberal" in the first place, because otherwise you're just pulling red herrings out your ass to try to change the subject away from Joe Biden's record. One, Biden's not liberal, he's a conservative; two, that he was "only" a multi-millionaire after leaving office in 2017 despite 44 years in federal politics just makes him a cheap date for the donor class.


Citation needed. Because I'd direct you to his NAFTA vote alone (which was 'yea') as proof positive of the exact opposite.


We've been through this before, I don't give a damn what stupid shit spews out of his mouth. I give a damn whether the stupid shit that spews out of his mouth is consistent with his policy, and guess what, it by and large is. He does the same shit as any other contemporary Republican would have done in his place, the difference between him and other Republicans is he doesn't polish the turds he feeds the American public.

That's what you don't get, what you doublethink and doublespeak around, and what you deliberately ignore. These Lincoln Project cocksuckers, Kasich, the McCain family, Bolton, Romney, all these pathologically dishonest and professionally-wrong assholes who claim to be "never Trump Republicans" don't have a problem with his overall policy. Not one whit. Half of them advocate for the exact same shit.

The one policy dust-up over the last four years in which these dumbfucks broke from Trump's policy -- not his rhetoric, his policy -- was the time he didn't start World War III with Iran.

Not one of those idiots is one iota less "fascist" than Trump. They just pretend they're not fascist. And that's why this election is a referendum on aesthetics, the choice between Biden and Trump boils down to whether we want to tell the truth to ourselves that we are, in fact, a fascist country and have been for years before Trump was ever inaugurated in the first place.


Nothing says "honesty in governance" like lying to start a war that racked up a civvie body count so high it would have been unequivocally called genocide had any other country did it, and covering up dozens of war crimes committed during it.

1) This isn't what Trump just "says", it is what he DID. Trump IS using the department of justice to attack his political foes and is planning on using them to contest the election.
2)Trump DID order FEMA to stop giving money to victims in California because he said they didn't support him so they deserved to be punished for it.
3)Trump repeatedly ordered the department of homeland security to take away children from their parents at the border after being order by the courts to stop doing so. He literally claimed his "magical authorities" allowed him to ignore the court order and do it anyways.
4) Trump ordered the treasury department to withhold funding for the US postal service if they failed to comply with his demands deliberately undermining their legal obligations to not comply with his illegal demands.
5)Trump has been ordering his justice department to investigate conspiracy theories, his opponents and is blatantly abusing power.

Don't pretend like he is " all talk", this is what he is actually doing here that is the problem, and worse. Just keep waiting.. we are expecting a parade of people who have worked for him to finally speak up in coming weeks.

Bush didn't lie in order to invade Iraq, US intelligence did. Bush was ridiculed by other republicans because he insisted upon spending millions on dropping leaflets warning the people that they needed to evacuate because the bombs were coming. Other republicans thought it was a waste of time and took away their element of surprise and endangered our own troops by warning them, but Bush insisted anyhow. Bush saved countless civilian lives by insisting upon doing that in advance of the attack. I am not going to pretend that we should have ever been in Iraq. I am not going to pretend that war isn't horrific and there aren't massive civilian casualties, but I am also not going to lie about what actually happened here. Bush was still a terrible republican and president, but lets not pretend he is anywhere near as bad as Trump. Trump is a literal psychopath. He is delusional, dangerous and unfit for office. Trump just doing normal republican bad things would be one thing, that isn't what we are facing here. Normal republicans do not have so many of their trusted advisors coming out of their administration telling us that the president is not sane. Trump's closest supporters are the ones telling us he is insane here. The generals are telling us he is unfit for office. There is nothing normal about that and failing to act would necessarily be disastrous.

 

[lil devils x]

Man, of all the things to click to see, this has to be the best. This puts a smile on my face and a spring in my step, seeing how much you have to deny reality to keep your little world going.

This is precisely what people were telling you was going to happen, based on historical evidence that this is exactly the kind of person Biden is. The only downside is that if Biden wins and thus, do all this, you'll still blame Republicans instead of acknowledging that this is what Biden does.

So in short, no, you're wrong.

The historical evidence we have is that he has fought for blue collar workers for decades. That is why the unions love him so much. " saying no your wrong" and pretending like Trump isn't unfit for office is failing to acknowledge reality here. Of course I don't agree with everything Biden has done. I don't agree with most of what he has done. But it isn't like he is going to try and sell the "dirty poor" to Greenland, use the Department of justice as a weapon against the people or withhold FEMA funding to victims because they didn't praise him enough as Trump has actually done here. We only have two choices Biden, who is far from an ideal candidate. HE is definitely no Bernie or Warren or Trump, a psychopath who is psychopath whose advisors are all telling us he is insane, dangerous and unfit for office. Not removing Trump from office at this point would be risking the lives of everyone here. It isn't like we have any other choices here. I honestly would rather have warren than any of the others, her plans are even better than Bernie's, but I didn't get that option so I am going to do as both Bernie and Warren request and at least give them a chance to get something done over the next 4 years.

 

[Eacaraxe]

Don't pretend like he is " all talk", this is what he is actually doing here that is the problem, and worse. Just keep waiting.. we are expecting a parade of people who have worked for him to finally speak up in coming weeks.

He said he'd do all that and he did. Stop lying and putting words in my mouth. My arguments are in plain English, and if you're either too blindly partisan, consumed by Orwellian doublethink, or too plain damn dishonest to parse my words as they're written, that's on you.

Bush didn't lie in order to invade Iraq, US intelligence did.

Bullshit he didn't, US intelligence were the ones who debunked the story about the aluminum tubes and yellowcake, and the Curveball allegations about mobile chemical weapons factories, to begin with. The orders to suppress it and develop a plan of action for justifying the invasion of Iraq, manufacturing evidence and using known-to-be-false information if necessary, came straight from the Oval Office. Bush told Rumsfeld to do it personally. We know the timeline of this, down to the day each development happened, down to the minute in some cases.

Plans For Iraq Attack Began On 9/11

Exclusive: Rumsfeld Sought Plan For Iraq Strike Hours After 9/11 Attack

www.cbsnews.com

That note was written at 2:40 pm on September, 11, 2001. The fucking bodies weren't even cold and WTC7 wasn't even on the ground before the Bush administration was looking to use the attack as an excuse to invade Iraq. Despite knowing indisputably Hussein had no connection to Bin Laden and there was no connection between the Iraqi government and al-Qaeda. This was told by Richard Clarke to Bush, personally, on September 12, 2001, and every US intelligence agency concurred with Clarke's report on no connection existing between Iraq and 9/11.

Clarke’s Challenge

Richard Clarke’s apology to America for 9/11, and his best-selling book, Against All Enemies, which criticizes the White House’s obsession with invading Iraq, have made him famous, wealthy, and a hero to many. But the former “counterterrorism czar,” who went into government three decades ago to...

www.vanityfair.com

Lie by Lie: A Timeline of How We Got Into Iraq

Mushroom clouds, duct tape, Judy Miller, Curveball. Recalling how Americans were sold a bogus case for invasion.

www.motherjones.com

What Donald Rumsfeld knew we didn’t know about Iraq

A new document reveals gaps of intelligence on WMD. Why didn’t Pentagon chief share it?

www.politico.eu

Stop lying.

 

[Buyetyen]

Stop lying.

Free advice: accusing people of lying when evidence suggests they're just mistaken does not make you the good guy in the equation.

 

[Eacaraxe]

Free advice: accusing people of lying when evidence suggests they're just mistaken does not make you the good guy in the equation.

News flash: I don't give a hot damn what you think about how I react to people lying about the Iraq War.

Not when the topic of discussion has been so thoroughly debunked and covered not just in politics-junkie circles, but the mainstream media at large for nineteen years predating the Iraq invasion itself, that it is indeed common household knowledge and has been a decisive factor in the past four consecutive Presidential elections. Not when someone is pushing back at a time when Bush's legacy is being actively whitewashed by contrast to Trump, and in that specific context, using the specific lies pushed by neoconservative revisionists to do it, and in no small part to run interference on behalf of Biden who was the war's chief celebrant on the Democratic side of the aisle.

Lying about the Iraq War is something of a red line for me, which I won't entertain under any circumstance regardless which asshole is in office or what the political bent of the speaker is.

 

[Buyetyen]

No. I really don't think I will.

Then you don't get to complain when other people decide that you're a jerk and interacting with you just isn't worth it.

Lying about the Iraq War is something of a red line for me, which I won't entertain under any circumstance regardless which asshole is in office or what the political bent of the speaker is.

Every boor has an excuse.