Trump Town Hall Disaster

[lil devils x]

And the millions who won't have health insurance under either administration? The alternative for them is to just die.

Who is that? Biden is bringing a public option, lowering the age of Medicare, increasing the Medicaid expansion AND the subsidies to further fill the holes in his plan. We just need to get enough seats in the senate to pass it. I tried to tell you what was in it in the other thread, I guess you didn't pay attention. He is trying to plug all the holes in the ACA so everyone gets covered this time. You have no idea how much this means to so many right now. This is EXACTLY what we need to happen to be able to shift to M4A.
The only way that all those covered by the ACA now and those who would be covered by this are going to "just die" is if we let Trump get elected because then we will have nothing and no way to pass this at all. Those congressional seats are so important right now, we really need people campaigning like mad to flip them.

Under Biden's current plan, he would allow more people with higher incomes to qualify for the same subsides that allow my brother to get free healthcare under the ACA. That is so important in states where they didn't get a Medicaid expansion, like Texas.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Who is that?

About 3/4 of the 21 million citizens who are currently uninsured would remain uninsured if Biden's plan is implemented as advertised.

As to credibility: Obama campaigned on a public option plan in 2008 and proceeded to not even attempt to include a public option in the ACA with 60 Democratic seats in the Senate and a House majority.

 

[Agema]

About 3/4 of the 21 million citizens who are currently uninsured would remain uninsured if Biden's plan is implemented as advertised.

As to credibility: Obama campaigned on a public option plan in 2008 and proceeded to not even attempt to include a public option in the ACA with 60 Democratic seats in the Senate and a House majority.

59 Democratic seats and an unusually obstructive ex-Democratic Party arsehole. And there would have been a handful of party senators who'd have sunk it if the Republicans filibustered it anyway.

 

[Buyetyen]

Out of curiosity, were you one of the people crying on election day?

Your fake concern, as always, is truly heartwarming.

To be frank, yes, I am affected by all of these things. I just don't delude myself into thinking that one right wing rapist politician who supports police brutality and corporations is any better then another.

Cynicism is a lazy excuse for inaction.

 

[lil devils x]

About 3/4 of the 21 million citizens who are currently uninsured would remain uninsured if Biden's plan is implemented as advertised.

As to credibility: Obama campaigned on a public option plan in 2008 and proceeded to not even attempt to include a public option in the ACA with 60 Democratic seats in the Senate and a House majority.

When you start doing the numbers here, It leaves out illegal immigrants that do not qualify for Medicaid, and those that fall " in between" that will actually have money freed up for insurance that isn't being calculated into this by the separate tax credit that lowers rent+ utilities to be under 30% of their income which will actually free up more than enough for their health insurance+ extra for many of those families falling " in between" This on top of the public option bringing prices down.

When people are assessing the healthcare plan, they are not taking into account Biden's other tax credits at the same time that will impact this, as reducing people's rent+ utilities to be under 30% of their income helps them in so many areas that are not currently being addressed, not just healthcare. You have to look at all of his policies, because to address healthcare you have to address the other issues impacting their income and being able to afford to pay for it as well.

 

[ObsidianJones]

You will never reform the capitalist society in which you live by working through the system that they themselves created. The reason that voting is pointless is because they have disenfranchised you, whether you vote or not. You have access to the illusion of choice. Whether biden or trump wins, the richest americans will continue to get richer at the expense of the poorest. You don't have any real choice at all. Your leaders are chosen for you. They take part in a system that's artificially designed to maintain the status quo, and to give none establishment candidates a non existent path to success. The platforms the two candidates select are also chosen by upper elites. You then vote every two to four years, and think that you have input into the system. Even if your side wins, you never really get what you were promised. But it's blamed on the other side.

This isn't a representative democracy, it's a total farce. There is no victory through this system. The only way to win is to not play at all. Burn the system down in its entirety, and replace it with something new.

This is frankly the saddest thing I have ever seen on this forum and it is the closest I have ever been to truly losing my cool.

Has anyone, EVER, taken care of a Bully by just ignoring them? That after you play dead, they think you're no fun any more and they just walk away, cursing under their breath that you took away their power by not 'participating properly'?

Has any hate group gone up to a minority, woman, or religious group, threaten them with bodily harm and/or death... only to be thwarted when that group walks away? To the point where they stop and say "What are we doing with our lives? We should just disband".

And has any despot government (Say.... oh, I don't know... Russia) not receive the actual votes to keep them in power, shrug their shoulders, and let the new duly elected regime come in without any fuss?

To 'not play' means less resistance to the usurping of the land. You don't 'win' when you abdicate the only power you have available to you, even if you think it's not strong enough.

Because if it wasn't truly strong enough, Operation Redmap wouldn't have even been an idea in the Republicans' mindset. There would be no need for it. You don't make grabs for power (that end up working) if there's no real benefit to you.

Your misinformation is yours alone. Fine. Whatever. And yes, I also don't believe in this government. I don't even want to live in this country any more. But I sure as hell know we got here through votes. Through propaganda and misinformation, kind of like what you're doing now. Minorities, weed, fear of Religion being taken from them, and women gaining too much power that led scared Republicans to continually vote against their own interest to where fearmongering was the only rule of the day, leading to not politician's getting into office, ruling with sensibility, but demagogues who only clung to power by throwing out a new fear every so often.

We need to be more active to change. Through vote, through protest, through unrest if necessary.

Be shackled if you want. We'll be here changing what we can. And if it benefits you, you're welcome. If it doesn't? Why didn't you fight to make it better as well?

 

[Tireseas]

When you start doing the numbers here, It leaves out illegal immigrants that do not qualify for Medicaid, and those that fall " in between" that will actually have money freed up for insurance that isn't being calculated into this by the separate tax credit that lowers rent+ utilities to be under 30% of their income which will actually free up more than enough for their health insurance+ extra for many of those families falling " in between" This on top of the public option bringing prices down.

When people are assessing the healthcare plan, they are not taking into account Biden's other tax credits at the same time that will impact this, as reducing people's rent+ utilities to be under 30% of their income helps them in so many areas that are not currently being addressed, not just healthcare. You have to look at all of his policies, because to address healthcare you have to address the other issues impacting their income and being able to afford to pay for it as well.

There's also, you know, the issues of trans people's rights, the utter ignoring of first peoples sovereignty and land rights, climate change, democratic reforms, etc.

And, you know, that Trump is the essential fascist and that even if we can't agree on the alternative we should get him and the rest of the now-nearly-completely subsumed GOP as effectively the party of the fascists.

 

[fOx]

So your plan is to silence your voice entirely and just go suffer and die quietly while no one notices and the system still goes on without you? That is the entire GOP plan for you regardless. No one is tearing the system down and if they did, it would just end in a power struggle between the elites and their for profit paid for military/police they use against anyone who disagrees with them. The poor will only be crushed worse than they ever have under your plan here.

Reality is we can only change the system we are in by outvoting the other parties. There IS victory, but you have to start on the local, state and congressional level in order to control the electoral college instead of focusing on just the presidency. It can happen, but no one ever said it would be easy. In the meantime, we have to keep as many people alive to live to the next fight to do so, thus we have to choose the only path available to do that.

Not voting doesn't tear anything down. The GOP is thrilled that you are giving the what they want. They want to be able to ignore you entirely and go on about their business without you interrupting them at all. You are doing their voter suppression FOR THEM and they don't even have to try! You are like a freebie to them.

I, for one have benefitted tremendously from the democrats passing the ACA, my preexisting conditions are covered and my premiums are not as high as they would have been without it. My brother has been receiving his healthcare through the ACA even though he is unemployed and the subsidies have been covering his premiums entirely so he hasn't had to pay any monthly fees at all, or a deductible while still being able to have his insurance cover most of his medication costs, he would not have access to this at all without the ACA. Many of my patients, too would not have access to their medications and treatments without the ACA and it has proven invaluable for millions during the pandemic who would have difficulty being able to receive treatment without it.

Obama's housing programs too have been helpful to those struggling, thus why Homelessness was at it's lowest point in a decade when trump took office, of course he has been steadfastly working at reversing that since he took office since it has been rising every single year since 2016.

Before you go and claim" they are doing nothing for the poor, the sick , the minorities, the disabled" you may want to check with those who actually are relying on these very programs to stay alive right now because without them, they will die. Your claims of " they don't care and are not going to help" are pretty well empty when the very things they did do were the difference between life and death for so many already. Of course it wasn't " enough" but it sure beats the hell out of what people are being put through under Trumps intention of trying to destroy all of these things that people need to stay alive right now. One choice keeps more people alive right now, the other choice means their deaths, THAT is a pretty BIG difference to those who really want to stay alive through the next four years, including myself.

Trump's empty promise of " pre existing conditions will be covered" is just that, It is empty because he makes no promise of keeping them covered at the same rate as everyone else , as the subsidies he is trying to get rid of are what allow that to happen at all. There is no way to keep them covered at the current low rates under his " death pools for the sick" he and the GOP are pushing to cover preexisting conditions. People will then go back to the lottery system of who lives and who dies and lose access to regular care by our physicians and be forced back into charity services and free clinics. Most people just died because only a few were selected to receive help to live. It was horrible and inhumane and that is what faces us under Trump. That may not matter to you, but my life, my families lives, my friends lives, my patients lives all mean more to me than that.

You see they ALREADY HAVE DONE for us, and they will do more. You just have to stop letting the GOP come in and break everything every time they get a chance. We WERE actually improving in many areas before they let them make it worse again.

How in earth do you think that you are going to stop the GOP from breaking everything? It's a two party system, their victory is always an election or two away. Your just pushing a boulder up a hill if you think that's going to change. So what's your solution? Hope for a situation where things are moderately tolerable for a couple of years, until the republicans win again? It's a joke. Anything you have, you have because the political elite decided to throw you a few bones. You shouldn't be grateful, you should be angry. Because your entitled to so much more. Medical care should be free, and it should be for everyone. Biden's plan is, itself, a joke. I can't wait for the return of the healthcare mandate, their either punishes the poorest Americans for not having health insurance, or forces them to get plans that have such high premiums, that they have no reason to use the insurance at all unless they're literally dying. Whatever biden is promising you will be neutered by the time it passes, and then it will be repealed again in four to eight years. You aren't going to "stop them from breaking things." Especially when the democrat's are the ones helping to break things in the first place. Stop being grateful for crumbs from the billionaires table. You deserve to sit at the table yourself. You deserve medicare for all. Other countries do it.

As it stands, the democrats are a right wing corporatist party that only cares about pleasing its wealthiest donors. If they give you anything at all, and when they do its rare and little, they do so only to stop you from eating them for a few more years. The two party system has disenfranchised you of representation. I'm not just saying that you shouldn't vote. I'm saying that your vote doesn't matter, because the 1% has already decided what the policies will be without your knowledge or input. You've bees indoctrinated and brainwashed into thinking that you are part of a representative democracy, and you aren't. Better, by far, to overthrow the bourgeoise and replace it with an egalitarian communist society that actually benefits its citizens and meets their needs. Anyone who says that this is impossible is lying to you.

 

[fOx]

This is frankly the saddest thing I have ever seen on this forum and it is the closest I have ever been to truly losing my cool.

Has anyone, EVER, taken care of a Bully by just ignoring them? That after you play dead, they think you're no fun any more and they just walk away, cursing under their breath that you took away their power by not 'participating properly'?

Has any hate group gone up to a minority, woman, or religious group, threaten them with bodily harm and/or death... only to be thwarted when that group walks away? To the point where they stop and say "What are we doing with our lives? We should just disband".

And has any despot government (Say.... oh, I don't know... Russia) not receive the actual votes to keep them in power, shrug their shoulders, and let the new duly elected regime come in without any fuss?

To 'not play' means less resistance to the usurping of the land. You don't 'win' when you abdicate the only power you have available to you, even if you think it's not strong enough.

Because if it wasn't truly strong enough, Operation Redmap wouldn't have even been an idea in the Republicans' mindset. There would be no need for it. You don't make grabs for power (that end up working) if there's no real benefit to you.

Your misinformation is yours alone. Fine. Whatever. And yes, I also don't believe in this government. I don't even want to live in this country any more. But I sure as hell know we got here through votes. Through propaganda and misinformation, kind of like what you're doing now. Minorities, weed, fear of Religion being taken from them, and women gaining too much power that led scared Republicans to continually vote against their own interest to where fearmongering was the only rule of the day, leading to not politician's getting into office, ruling with sensibility, but demagogues who only clung to power by throwing out a new fear every so often.

We need to be more active to change. Through vote, through protest, through unrest if necessary.

Be shackled if you want. We'll be here changing what we can. And if it benefits you, you're welcome. If it doesn't? Why didn't you fight to make it better as well?

I'm not saying to do nothing. I'm saying that the solution isn't voting or taking part in the system. Destroy the system and replace it. Biden's idea of police reform is to have them "shoot protestors in the leg" while promising to give them an increase of funding in the hunreds of millions of dollars. In fact, he said that he supports the police more then trump does. Given that he's hired kamala harris to replace him as soon as he gets elected, I believe him.

Destroy the system. Destroy the bourgeoise. Replace it with something better.

Edit: To put it another way, biden is the one laughing while trump kicks you. But maybe he'll kick you a little softer when it's his turn, and only in the leg. Unless he misses, and lands a little higher. And your solution is to thank him for the honor.

 

[Buyetyen]

How in earth do you think that you are going to stop the GOP from breaking everything? It's a two party system, their victory is always an election or two away. Your just pushing a boulder up a hill if you think that's going to change.

And if you prefer to give up and wallow in cynicism, that is your prerogative. It is that of mine and others to keep struggling until we no longer draw breath.

 

[fOx]

And if you prefer to give up and wallow in cynicism, that is your prerogative. It is that of mine and others to keep struggling until we no longer draw breath.

who said anything about giving up? none of you are listening. i said we should replace the system with a communist regime.

 

[Buyetyen]

who said anything about giving up? none of you are listening. i said we should replace the system with a communist regime.

And then you expect the rest of us to come up with the how and do all the work. So again, you're giving up.

 

[fOx]

And then you expect the rest of us to come up with the how and do all the work. So again, you're giving up.

Who says I'm not politically active?

 

[Buyetyen]

Who says I'm not politically active?

You whine that you have no skin in the game, so none of it matters. Then you whine that it matters and people aren't doing something about it the right way. Now you're whining that people assume you're politically inactive because you say shit like, "I have no skin in the game."

Please pick one and stick with it because otherwise I'm getting some weird mixed signals from you.

 

[Gergar12]

Oh my god. When Biden visited Michigan, He didn't even visit African Americans in Flint or Detroit or anywhere. I was wrong when I called his team smart. They are a bunch of elitist clowns. Biden had a 16 point lead in Michigan. and it dropped to 8 points in the Detriot Free Press Poll.


I am not a Political Science American Politics major, but even I know that's dumb. He went to a rally with more secret service agents, then steelworkers/attendees, he went to another rally where Trump protesters outnumbered his own attendees.



Why can't Biden bring the competance he did against Bernie, but against Trump.

 

[fOx]

You whine that you have no skin in the game, so none of it matters. Then you whine that it matters and people aren't doing something about it the right way. Now you're whining that people assume you're politically inactive because you say shit like, "I have no skin in the game."

Please pick one and stick with it because otherwise I'm getting some weird mixed signals from you.

Well, let me put it this way: I don't care which candidate wins, because my personal circumstances, and the state if the country, won't change either way. I don't care, because im divorced from the political system. Im politically active, in that i support protests and communist demonstrations and organization.

 

[Worgen]

So your plan is to silence your voice entirely and just go suffer and die quietly while no one notices and the system still goes on without you? That is the entire GOP plan for you regardless. No one is tearing the system down and if they did, it would just end in a power struggle between the elites and their for profit paid for military/police they use against anyone who disagrees with them. The poor will only be crushed worse than they ever have under your plan here.

Oh cmon lil Devils, Fox is a black gay artist. Its well known that minorities and artists do fantastically during a revolution.

 

[Buyetyen]

Well, let me put it this way: I don't care which candidate wins, because my personal circumstances, and the state if the country, won't change either way. I don't care, because im divorced from the political system. Im politically active, in that i support protests and communist demonstrations and organization.

And I have a lot to lose in the case of a Trump victory. I want to push the country left, and that is not mutually exclusive with making a tactical decision during a disappointing election cycle. If you choose not to take part in the election cycle, that means by extension that all your ideas about how one side or the other should be doing it this time around has about as much weight as the breath it takes you to say it.

 

[ObsidianJones]

I'm not saying to do nothing. I'm saying that the solution isn't voting or taking part in the system. Destroy the system and replace it. Biden's idea of police reform is to have them "shoot protestors in the leg" while promising to give them an increase of funding in the hunreds of millions of dollars. In fact, he said that he supports the police more then trump does. Given that he's hired kamala harris to replace him as soon as he gets elected, I believe him.

Destroy the system. Destroy the bourgeoise. Replace it with something better.

Edit: To put it another way, biden is the one laughing while trump kicks you. But maybe he'll kick you a little softer when it's his turn, and only in the leg. Unless he misses, and lands a little higher. And your solution is to thank him for the honor.

Ok, because you squared up and tried to explain your position more, I'm going to pull back now and engage.

Frankly, it's increasingly hard to consider a lot of your polls anything but trolls. I get not trusting the system. I get it not working for us so we have to replace it. We're on the same wavelength there.

But this is what is tripping us up.

This isn't a representative democracy, it's a total farce. There is no victory through this system. The only way to win is to not play at all. Burn the system down in its entirety, and replace it with something new.

Frankly, this is conversation that's gotten us in this mess in the first place. This is similiar dogma that the non voters in 2016 and some of the Trump voters used to cast their vote towards Trump. "Hey, it doesn't matter. Do whatever you can to bring down the government, even elect a fool like Trump. Damn the collateral damage".

Meanwhile, this is the collateral damage

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

I'm on that list. So are my family members.

Revolutions do not always have to have a high body count, but actions up until now have led to one.

Also when Buyetyen said this.

You whine that you have no skin in the game, so none of it matters. Then you whine that it matters and people aren't doing something about it the right way. Now you're whining that people assume you're politically inactive because you say shit like, "I have no skin in the game."

Please pick one and stick with it because otherwise I'm getting some weird mixed signals from you.

Well, let me put it this way: I don't care which candidate wins, because my personal circumstances, and the state if the country, won't change either way. I don't care, because im divorced from the political system. Im politically active, in that i support protests and communist demonstrations and organization.

And you know what? I get this. I can actually understand every part of what you're saying, even if we go down different paths. But do you know what I don't care about?

Air Jordans. I don't know why people would spend so much on sneakers. They are footwear. They keep your feet safe. They don't make you rich.

I have a lot more to say on sneakers. But you know why you didn't know that I don't care about them? I don't talk about them. All the time. About how much they don't mean anything to me.

Again, I'm down with you here. This government is a joke. It doesn't represent its citizens in any meaningful way. We must combat it. But like Buyetyen said, the disinterest and apathy that you're expressing is sounding a lot like what we've seen before. And Trump and this division is the result. I think we're all hyper vigilant now

 

[Breakdown]

When I saw the thread title I assumed a town hall had collapsed on top of Trump. Oh well.