What? Are you fucking kidding me? New York Times posts an article advocating against free speech.

ObsidianJones

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Unfounded accusations are sill unfounded accusations unless you have evidence to back them up. You are just making up stuff and then claiming it has to be true because rich people own news agencies and social media when those have nothing at all to do with one another. Just making up stuff and saying " rich people" doesn't suddenly make anything you said even remotely true. If you are going to accuse them of something, accuse them of something they actually did here. There is plenty of evidence for that. But just making up crap doesn't make any of what you said true. If you are going to make the accusation PROVE it is happening, and I am not seeing you do that at all here.

You are not even making specific accusation against any individual or group, it is just as bad as Trump's " shadow people on planes that control the streets" BS that he completely made up as well.

It is like SHADOW PEOPLE OMGAWD!

God DAMNIT, Lil! If you brought the Shadow People here, I'm tripping you before I'm running away!
 

ralfy

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Unfounded accusations are sill unfounded accusations unless you have evidence to back them up. You are just making up stuff and then claiming it has to be true because rich people own news agencies and social media when those have nothing at all to do with one another. Just making up stuff and saying " rich people" doesn't suddenly make anything you said even remotely true. If you are going to accuse them of something, accuse them of something they actually did here. There is plenty of evidence for that. But just making up crap doesn't make any of what you said true. If you are going to make the accusation PROVE it is happening, and I am not seeing you do that at all here.

You are not even making specific accusation against any individual or group, it is just as bad as Trump's " shadow people on planes that control the streets" BS that he completely made up as well.

It is like SHADOW PEOPLE OMGAWD!

Which should come from the FBI, right?

And the same arguments can be said, ironically, in favor of both Biden and Trump.

So much for "shadow people." Pot, meet kettle!
 
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lil devils x

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Similar to the claim of Russian interference during the elections.
Russia DID interfere with the elections and according to the feds they are interfering their the elections now as well. Russia interferes with elections all over the world, not just the US though. How do you think Russia obtained Crimea? Trump's campaign chair helped get the guy elected who gave Crimea to Russia. Seriously, how anyone thinks this wasn't isn't an issue is beyond me at this point. You don't acknowledge the issues we have a TON of actual data on and then make unfounded claims on things you have no evidence of. Too funny.


.
 

lil devils x

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Which should come from the FBI, right?

And the same arguments can be said, ironically, in favor of both Biden and Trump.

So much for "shadow people." Pot, meet kettle!
You are making zero sense and providing zero evidence of anything you say here.
 

Iron

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Russia DID interfere with the elections and according to the feds they are interfering their the elections now as well. Russia interferes with elections all over the world, not just the US though. How do you think Russia obtained Crimea? Trump's campaign chair helped get the guy elected who gave Crimea to Russia. Seriously, how anyone thinks this wasn't isn't an issue is beyond me at this point. You don't acknowledge the issues we have a TON of actual data on and then make unfounded claims on things you have no evidence of. Too funny.


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Who would they interfere in favor of, since both are under current sanctions by Donnie?

You are making zero sense and providing zero evidence of anything you say here.
evidence =/= wikipedia
 

Agema

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Who would they interfere in favor of, since both are under current sanctions by Donnie?
They're not necessarily interfering in favour of anyone that specifically. They're just shit-stirring as hard and frantically as possible, because the more the USA descends into domestic chaos, the less it will do on the global stage leaving countries like Iran and Russia more free to do as they please. Although they probably favour Trump, because he exemplifies the sort of chaos that they want, setting Americans against each other.
 

Thaluikhain

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Although they probably favour Trump, because he exemplifies the sort of chaos that they want, setting Americans against each other.
Not to mention, setting the US against Europe. NATO being there in large part as a response to any threats from Russia (by whatever name).
 

Iron

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They're not necessarily interfering in favour of anyone that specifically. They're just shit-stirring as hard and frantically as possible, because the more the USA descends into domestic chaos, the less it will do on the global stage leaving countries like Iran and Russia more free to do as they please. Although they probably favour Trump, because he exemplifies the sort of chaos that they want, setting Americans against each other.
Okay now the claim that they prefer Trump makes more sense to me, because I know that he shafted both through sanctions (both state and persons).

Not to mention, setting the US against Europe. NATO being there in large part as a response to any threats from Russia (by whatever name).
yet NATO did fuck all to stop Russian aggression against Georgia in '08.
 

Agema

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Okay now the claim that they prefer Trump makes more sense to me, because I know that he shafted both through sanctions (both state and persons).
The heaviest sanctions really date from Obama. The Trump administration has added a few more for various infractions, although Trump personally has an expressed a desire to end them. (We might note that Russia has been a significant source of money for Trump's to finance his businesses for years, and he was working hard at a project in Moscow before his presidency.) We can probably be sure that Russia will think it's done better with Trump than it would have done with Clinton.

My take on Trump is that he is a largely disinterested leader. He's completely self-absorbed, so all he really cares about is self-gain and how he appears to others: as a result he leaves governance to flunkies, and involves himself mostly only when he perceives benefit to himself. We can see evidence of this in his debates - he can't discuss anything in depth, and that's because he doesn't know any detail, and he doesn't know because he doesn't care about it and doesn't do it. So in terms of Russia the State Dept. will go do their thing, and although Trump will grumble and would probably like to end sanctions for the sake of his businesses, it would be far too costly for his image as president given his existing Russia woes politically to push it as policy.

What foreign leaders are looking at with Trump is his evident hostility to a lot of international norms. He's alienating allies, he's been negative about NATO, undermined the WTO, he supports the break-up of the EU: fracturing of the alliances and systems which the West dominated the postwar global scene. Iran, for instance, is a prime example. Rather than co-ordinate a joint response, Trump just wanted what he wanted and seriously split the US and EU to do it. In the long run, this loss of trust and co-ordination weakens the USA and EU and their allies - and other countries take advantage. So Iran might struggle under Trump's crosshairs for a few years, but letting him swing a wrecking ball at the USA's reputation is a benefit for decades to come.

yet NATO did fuck all to stop Russian aggression against Georgia in '08.
It had no obligation to, and it's hard to see what it could meaningfully have done anyway.
 
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ralfy

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Russia DID interfere with the elections and according to the feds they are interfering their the elections now as well. Russia interferes with elections all over the world, not just the US though. How do you think Russia obtained Crimea? Trump's campaign chair helped get the guy elected who gave Crimea to Russia. Seriously, how anyone thinks this wasn't isn't an issue is beyond me at this point. You don't acknowledge the issues we have a TON of actual data on and then make unfounded claims on things you have no evidence of. Too funny.


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And we should find similar about Biden.


 

lil devils x

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And we should find similar about Biden.


That is not the same thing. Not by a long shot. Trump's campaign manager literally helped give Russia Crimea and was paid by Russia to do it and Ukraine is trying to charge him with treason.. That is not anywhere near the same thing as Biden's son introducing some Guy to his dad. False equivalency.

There is no topping Trump's violations of the emoluments clause and nepotism going on with him right now, by ANY administration in the history of the US. Ivanka and Trumps Trademarks in China? Ivanka sitting in daddy's chair at G-20? Trump hiring Ivanka to work at in his administration? Trump's constant flow of foreign money? There is nothing Biden could have done at this point to even come close here. Trump pays more in taxes to other countries than he does to the US!
 
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lil devils x

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You should read up on the latest news.
I have been, you are not providing the latest news. Sources matter.
FOX/ Breitbart/ Heritage foundation/ isn't a source of anything but ridicule.
"Mixed factually and borderline Questionable based on poor sourcing and the spreading of conspiracy theories that later must be retracted after being widely shared. "
Isn't a source.


  • "Overall, we rate Fox News strongly Right-Biased due to editorial positions and story selection that favors the right. We also rate them Mixed factually and borderline Questionable based on poor sourcing and the spreading of conspiracy theories that later must be retracted after being widely shared. Further, Fox News would be rated a Questionable source based on numerous failed fact checks by hosts and pundits, however, straight news reporting is generally reliable, therefore we rate them Mixed for factual reporting."

 
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ralfy

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That is not the same thing. Not by a long shot. Trump's campaign manager literally helped give Russia Crimea and was paid by Russia to do it and Ukraine is trying to charge him with treason.. That is not anywhere near the same thing as Biden's son introducing some Guy to his dad. False equivalency.

There is no topping Trump's violations of the emoluments clause and nepotism going on with him right now, by ANY administration in the history of the US. Ivanka and Trumps Trademarks in China? Ivanka sitting in daddy's chair at G-20? Trump hiring Ivanka to work at in his administration? Trump's constant flow of foreign money? There is nothing Biden could have done at this point to even come close here. Trump pays more in taxes to other countries than he does to the US!
Here we go again! Trump is worse than Biden, and your conclusions on the latter are made even before an investigation on the "laptop from hell" has started. So much for false equivalencies!

Little by little, you're going to realize that not just Trump but his opponents (and not just Biden) have been engaged in such deals, and worse.
 

ralfy

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I have been, you are not providing the latest news. Sources matter.
FOX/ Breitbart/ Heritage foundation/ isn't a source of anything but ridicule.
"Mixed factually and borderline Questionable based on poor sourcing and the spreading of conspiracy theories that later must be retracted after being widely shared. "
Isn't a source.


  • "Overall, we rate Fox News strongly Right-Biased due to editorial positions and story selection that favors the right. We also rate them Mixed factually and borderline Questionable based on poor sourcing and the spreading of conspiracy theories that later must be retracted after being widely shared. Further, Fox News would be rated a Questionable source based on numerous failed fact checks by hosts and pundits, however, straight news reporting is generally reliable, therefore we rate them Mixed for factual reporting."

Based on the same source, CNN is left but has mixed results, too!