The Perfect Apolitical/Politics Free Video.

[Dwarvenhobble]

It's a packaged deal. How are you supposed to make X-Men with the message that "bigotry is bad" while not creating it to push said message?

well Yahtzee actually touched on this in his latest dev diary.


Often the theme becomes more clear as you're writing it while going in you mainly have a more vague idea.

The Xmen can be applied to any number of kind of bigotry or out group as such.

I mean some people even think Magneto was right

 

[BrawlMan]

Yes but better over nothing than fail to react to something.

Not always a good thing. Especially when people forget their own childish whining that it might as well never happened.

I mean the whole Steam censoring adult games really came out of left field before

That was a Steam problem. And last I checked, Steam has most of its games uncensored.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Funny none of those assholes complained about Advent Children Tifa back then. God that movie was confusing, dragged on, and way too over hyped. I saw it twice, never touched it again, and sold it to my local comic shop.

I shudder to think what state video game discourse would be in if the current YouTube punditry ecosystem existed 15 years ago

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Not always a good thing. Especially when people forget their own childish whining that it might as well never happened.

I dunno works as more ammo to prevent things next time.

That was a Steam problem. And last I checked, Steam has most of its games uncensored.

Yeh which was kind of solved by loud backlash lol

 

[Houseman]

Funny none of those assholes complained about Advent Children Tifa back then.

Her bust still looks pretty big in the leather outfit. About as big as you'd expect, based off the polygonal PS1 version as a reference (which isn't even a good reference). Why would there be any complaints?

Her remake version is definitely shrunken or constricted or however you want to view it, compared to both the ps1 version and the leather version.

"Because women having large boobs is bad! Women with big boobs don't really exist! It's just a male fantasy! This is a realistic game and she needs to constrict so that she doesn't have back problems! But suplexing enemies the size of buildings is fine because this is a fantasy world where magic exists."

 

[BrawlMan]

I shudder to think what state video game discourse would be in if the current YouTube punditry ecosystem existed 15 years ago

Would definitely suck, but in the early days (2006 for me was when I first even heard of YouTube) you have gamers fighting, arguing, harassing, or starting shit with other users. This includes non-gamers doing the same thing. So even back then it was not exactly right, but nowhere near bad as it is now. Because YouTube now is way worse by comparison.

Why would there be any complaints?

Because gamers like those are fickle and nickpick over any stupid minor details that can't make their minds.

Her remake version is definitely shrunken or constricted or however you want to view it, compared to both the ps1 version and the leather version.

Big deal. I've already seen the comparison and she still has big chest, smoking hot, and kick ass, so not much was loss. Too bad idiots like those over react and nothing better to do with their lives and complain about everything.

"Because women having large boobs is bad! Women with big boobs don't really exist! It's just a male fantasy! This is a realistic game and she needs to constrict so that she doesn't have back problems! But suplexing enemies the size of buildings is fine because this is a fantasy world where magic exists."

This a problem with all developers, publishers, reviewers, and the gamers themselves. When pull out the "realism" card out of convenience or to defend something really stupid. Especially when it is fantasy setting or something that claims to be realistic, when it is not even close. Everyone's suffered from this, no matter how small or mynute.

I dunno works as more ammo to prevent things next time.

Sometimes, yes; sometimes no. Especially when the complaining in question did not change anything in FFVII's case and coming off looking as immature brats. They did not get the final word on the decision making. So they won nothing, and actually a lost of things and too stupid to realize it. They got a game that was split into two parts, and conveniently forgot about that part or downplay it, because "DEY'RE TAKING AWAY MY BEWBS AND APPEALING TO THE SJWS!" is more important that a complete package. She ain't even yours to begin with b#tches. If she were real, Tifa is the type of woman who not even give assholes like that the time of day.

 

[Hawki]

Some thoughts:

If you're making art for art's sake, that's art.
If you're making art to push a message, that's propaganda.

There's plenty of art that has a core theme or idea behind it. A lot of literature does. I can't in good conscience call works like 1984 or Brave New World propaganda, even if they're 'message stories.'

Wikipedia says "Propaganda is communication that is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda..."

Is Sonic the Hedgehog environmentalist propaganda? How do we distinguish the two?
Test it by this criteria:
- Did you feel that the gameplay took a backseat to the message?
- Is the message "crammed in" so that it comes off as out of place or poorly written?
- Do you get a "both sides" look at things or are otherwise encouraged to think critically, or is there only "one right answer"?

Yes
Yes
No

We are in agreement. Sonic the Hedgehog is not environmentalist propaganda. It is a good example of "game first, message second"

So serious question, what's an example of a game where the message comes before the gameplay?

There's definitely games that are heavy handed with their messages (e.g. Metal Gear, BioShock), but they at least remain fun.

 

[BrawlMan]

There's plenty of art that has a core theme or idea behind it. A lot of literature does. I can't in good conscience call works like 1984 or Brave New World propaganda, even if they're 'message stories.'



Yes
Yes
No



So serious question, what's an example of a game where the message comes before the gameplay?

There's definitely games that are heavy handed with their messages (e.g. Metal Gear, BioShock), but they at least remain fun.

Thank you.

 

[FennecZephyr]

Her bust still looks pretty big in the leather outfit. About as big as you'd expect, based off the polygonal PS1 version as a reference (which isn't even a good reference). Why would there be any complaints?

Her remake version is definitely shrunken or constricted or however you want to view it, compared to both the ps1 version and the leather version.

"Because women having large boobs is bad! Women with big boobs don't really exist! It's just a male fantasy! This is a realistic game and she needs to constrict so that she doesn't have back problems! But suplexing enemies the size of buildings is fine because this is a fantasy world where magic exists."

Jesus fucking christ, dude. Don't you have a wife at home to go fuck or something?

Stop simping over fake polygon girls.

 

[Houseman]

Too bad idiots like those over react and nothing better to do with their lives and complain about everything.

The only problem I see here is that there is literally an "ethics" department making changes to their game, which goes against my ideals of "let artists make the art they want to make"

There's plenty of art that has a core theme or idea behind it

Go back and see my earlier posts until you understand how and why I'm using the word "to". I've explained it four times already, I'm not going to explain it a fifth time.

When you demonstrate that you understand what I'm saying, then we can come back to this discussion. I will not have my words twisted.

 

[BrawlMan]

The only problem I see here is that there is literally an "ethics" department making changes to their game, which goes against my ideals of "let artists make the art they want to make"

Big deal. It's not even that major of a change. Still a hot, sexy, woman with fan service kicking ass. Her breasts are still big, but just not comically large. As I mentioned before, the remake still has fan service; even more than the original. So nothing was lost in that department. You're getting upset over nothing.

 

[Silvanus]

The only problem I see here is that there is literally an "ethics" department making changes to their game, which goes against my ideals of "let artists make the art they want to make"

Is than any worse than all the other forms of executive meddling?

 

[happyninja42]

Jesus fucking christ, dude. Don't you have a wife at home to go fuck or something?

Stop simping over fake polygon girls.

One thing that actually just occurred to me but, isn't Tifa like a master fighter? I mean she's a martial artist, apparently powerful enough to PUNCH robots in the face, and they break, not her. So, I would assume she trains, and is as strong as your average MMA fighter, if not exponentially more so. And...none of them really have massive tits. It's kind of antithetical to the whole "I train non-stop to hone my body into a living weapon" type of diet/exercise that they would go through. Boobs are one of the first things to go naturally. So, it's frankly more realistic, not just on the concept of "most women have smaller boobs" (because my wife has massive ones, and she bitches about them daily), but from the standpoint of "Tifa is a powerful fighter" angle as well. Someone with her background isn't likely to have giant tits, at least not without some plastic surgery to compensate for the insane diet and exercise.

I mean women who have massive tits, and who regularly exercise, have to frequently wear like 2-3 sports bras, to keep the girls in check. Otherwise they flop around as they move, causing pain, and knocking them off balance. Again, my wife doesn't even exercise, has massive tits, and one sports bra is still not enough to actually give her the support she needs, while simultaneously keeping the girls in check and stationary.

So yeah, not even counting the "stop sexually objectifying game girls to massive tittied sex dolls", she makes more sense as a smaller chested woman, BECAUSE of what her character is and does.

 

[BrawlMan]

One thing that actually just occurred to me but, isn't Tifa like a master fighter? I mean she's a martial artist, apparently powerful enough to PUNCH robots in the face, and they break, not her. So, I would assume she trains, and is as strong as your average MMA fighter, if not exponentially more so. And...none of them really have massive tits. It's kind of antithetical to the whole "I train non-stop to hone my body into a living weapon" type of diet/exercise that they would go through. Boobs are one of the first things to go naturally. So, it's frankly more realistic, not just on the concept of "most women have smaller boobs" (because my wife has massive ones, and she bitches about them daily), but from the standpoint of "Tifa is a powerful fighter" angle as well. Someone with her background isn't likely to have giant tits, at least not without some plastic surgery to compensate for the insane diet and exercise.

I mean women who have massive tits, and who regularly exercise, have to frequently wear like 2-3 sports bras, to keep the girls in check. Otherwise they flop around as they move, causing pain, and knocking them off balance. Again, my wife doesn't even exercise, has massive tits, and one sports bra is still not enough to actually give her the support she needs, while simultaneously keeping the girls in check and stationary.

So yeah, not even counting the "stop sexually objectifying game girls to massive tittied sex dolls", she makes more sense as a smaller chested woman, BECAUSE of what her character is and does.

This is why you and I get along so well. Thinking about the practicality and the big picture.

 

[Houseman]

Is than any worse than all the other forms of executive meddling?

Nope. It's all bad.

So, I would assume she trains

How much training do you need to be able to do in order to suplex a monster the size of a 10-story building?
The correct answer is "no amount of training will allow you to do that. The only explanation for how that can happen is if we invoke the supernatural".

Magic exists in their world. We don't need to worry about explanations rooted in the physical. Otherwise you'd be calling for her to be the size of a skyscraper, since that's the only "physical" way that she can do the things she does. But you're not doing that because you're cherry-picking which rules you want to apply.

Maybe all she needs to do is wear magical clothing to be able to pull off those feats.

Normally, I would agree with you, if Tifa was a fighter in our world, she'd look like one. But she doesn't exist in our world, so why should we put OUR restrictions on her?
It's about internal consistency. Not realism.

 

[happyninja42]

This is why you and I get along so well. Thinking about the practicality and the big picture.

Hehe, well I try to be practical about things whenever I can. Especially regarding things as ultimately irrelevant as the cup size of a digital girl. I personally prefer the smaller size look, as 1. It does seem more realistic for someone with her lifestyle, and 2. I just like the smaller sizes in general. The thing anime forgets to tell you, is that tits as big as your typical anime 12 year old, would sag so fast, and so far. But all anime titties apparently come installed with anti-gravity devices, probably installed behind the nipples, given how much touching those in hentai cause the boobs to independently start orbiting. But, in reality, Tifa would be in pain when fighting with her OG jugs, and they'd flop down to near her belly button when out of her over the shoulder, boulder holders.

 

[happyninja42]

Nope. It's all bad.



How much training do you need to be able to do in order to suplex a monster the size of a 10-story building?
The correct answer is "no amount of training will allow you to do that. The only explanation for how that can happen is if we invoke the supernatural".

Magic exists in their world. We don't need to worry about explanations rooted in the physical. Otherwise you'd be calling for her to be the size of a skyscraper, since that's the only "physical" way that she can do the things she does. But you're not doing that because you're cherry-picking which rules you want to apply.

Maybe all she needs to do is wear magical clothing to be able to pull off those feats.

Normally, I would agree with you, if Tifa was a fighter in our world, she'd look like one. But she doesn't exist in our world, so why should we put OUR restrictions on her?
It's about internal consistency. Not realism.

.....internal consistency....of tits. THAT is the hill you are dying on? Fucking pathetic.

And also, this remake isn't about internal consistency. The entire plot of the game is rewriting the plot of the first one. So if they can upend shit like Aerith dying, and other things, and THAT'S ok, why is "oh and in this alternate universe Tifa isn't a Z-cup" somehow the line too far?

 

[BrawlMan]

This a problem with all developers, publishers, reviewers, and the gamers themselves. When pull out the "realism" card out of convenience or to defend something really stupid. Especially when it is fantasy setting or something that claims to be realistic, when it is not even close. Everyone's suffered from this, no matter how small or mynute.

How much training do you need to be able to do in order to suplex a monster the size of a 10-story building?
The correct answer is "no amount of training will allow you to do that. The only explanation for how that can happen is if we invoke the supernatural".

Magic exists in their world. We don't need to worry about explanations rooted in the physical.
Maybe all she needs to do is wear magical clothing to be able to pull off those feats.

Normally, I would agree with you, if Tifa was a fighter in our world, she'd look like one. But she doesn't exist in our world, so why should we put OUR restrictions on her?

Remember what I said earlier. You're doing it again. Finding flimsy justifications for why her breasts need to be that big. And it's a case of, because magic excuse. If you want big booby Tifa for that badly, your best bet is to start looking at porn right now. Because the developers and execs cannot give a shit about your hyperactive feelings on the matter. They're having too much fun sniffing that green. Both greens. And what's worse, while you are all worrying about that, they screwed you and the fans over by making you pay one game for the price of two. Have fun paying the remake of a game that was $50, and spending a total of $120 plus dollars when the second part comes out. If you want the full experience. Assuming you didn't pay top dollar for those dick measuring collectors editions.

 

[happyninja42]

Remember what I said earlier. You're doing it again. Finding flimsy justifications for why her blessings to be that big. And it's a case of, because magic excuse. If you want big booby Tifa for that badly, your best bet is to start looking at porn right now. Because the developers and execs cannot give a shit about your hyperactive feelings on the matter. They're having too much fun sniffing that green. Both greens. And what's worse, while you are all worrying about that, they screwed you and the fans over by making you pay one game for the price of two. Have fun paying the remake of a game that was $50, and spending a total of $120 plus dollars when the second part comes out. If you want the full experience. Assuming you didn't pay top dollar for those dick measuring collectors editions.

Or just wait for some mod that makes her tits adjustable. Given how many sexual mods I've seen for Claire for that RE2 remake highlighted on YT, it's only a matter of time. Actually, considering how much FF7 Remake style porn is already out there, the mods probably already exist. You know, for consistency's sake.

 

[Mister Mumbler]

It's objective, in that there is an objective answer to "what was the artist's intentions when making this?"
Just because the audience doesn't know the answer for certain, it doesn't make it subjective.

For example, there exists an objective secret recipe for KFC's chicken regardless of whether or not customers know what that recipe is.

But...how can it not be known and still be objective? Like, in the KFC example you gave, we know they have a secret blend because they tell us they have one. Could you provide an example of one of these propaganda games?