15-year old Stabs Bully 11 Times at Bus Stop, Gets Away With It

[JWAN]

I cant side with the judge on this one, but then again I cant see this kid as being tried as an adult.
If the bully was actually in the act of beating this kid to death and he fought back and stabbed him 11 times because his own life was in danger then I could side 100% with the kid. That's self defense. As for stabbing someone who is just standing around, that's vigilantism. BFD (Big Fucking Difference)
Another example for the slow (or for all the non-US citizens who get all of their US Law courses from internet gutter snipes or the run of the mill "shit-for-brain" individuals):
Someone breaks into your house and they have a weapon and or you believe they are threatening your or your families life and you kill said home invader.
Self Defense. (legal)

If said person breaks into your home and they leave and you find them on the street later and you kill them them.
Vigilantism. (illegal)

I cant agree with this judge, this kid needs help, the best way to get him that help is in a juvenile detention facility and plenty of time with a counselor and probably heavy medication. (I say help because I can't relate to where he is at mentally, I can only assume that he was that disturbed by the bully.)

 

[Lunar Templar]

Call me a "piece of work" or even cold-blooded knife-wielding psychopath, "i can live with some one i don't know and probably won't have any contact with again..." thinking things about me that arent true. AT least I am not defending somone that systematically abused people younger and weaker than him for sh*ts and giggles.

and you are also dense it seems.

at no point did i say he should not have defended him self. that's putting words I'm my mouth.
I take issue with how it was dealt with. 11 stab wounds is excessive, one would have been enough to stop some one bigger then some high school jock.

You dont and CANT know that. Are there senarios where 1 stab would be enough? sure. But neither of us know if that senario played out that day. It's also entirely possilbe that Dylan saw Jorge pull out the knife and attacked him anyway, because both Jorge and the knife were small enough that he didnt feel scared at all by them. The 2 got tangled up in a melee and less than 30 seconds later when the 2 got untangled Dylan had 11 stab wounds. Jorge didnt have time or the opportunity to count how many times he stabbed out with the knife, and truely it would take a coroner, a exam table, and a thorough cleaning to count exactly how many stab wounds there were.

I agree that no one needs to die to end bullying. Jorge should've talked to an autority figure, and that person should've done what was necessary to stop Dylan's bullying. Once again, neither of us know if he did indeed try that or not.

Let's not forget, Dylan went out of his way to chase this boy down. Perhaps you think that Dylan had some justification in doing that? Any senario I can think of SHOULD have ALSO been resolved by contacting autorities and NOT THROUGH a fist fight. Dylan certainly shouldnt have charged at anyone holding any kind of knife unless they were a direct and imediate threat to someone else, and even then THAT situation would have been better handled by POLICE.

The simple fact of this story, a "moral" if you wish, is that if Dylan had not persued Jorge despite Jorge's attempts to avoid confrontation, if he had not also gotten off the bus early, if he hadnt attacked Jorge once he got off the bus; Dylan would still be alive. Then Jorge would have had to go out of his way to try to murder Dylan, if that was ever his intent in the 1st place.

funny, i actually agree with a good chunk of what you said.
*re-reads the article as your the second to bring up the 30 second thing* >.> where are you getting 30 seconds? its mentioned no where in ether the OP here to the link to the news story.

at any rate, if the knife is long enough to graze the heart, its long enough to do enough damage in 1 stroke to stop some one. I'm more concerned about the precedence this could end up setting. 'getting bullied? get a knife and stab him next time he mouths off, don't worry, the law says its OK' well, its one of the concerns, but that might be me over thinking things

 

[JWAN]

I do agree that a right to self-defence is necessary, but that doesn't excuse the fact that the kid was carrying a knife, to/in/from school none the less. It also doesn't excuse that he stabbed the other kid ELEVEN times.

Showing the knife to scare the kid? Yeah, that's good; all psychological, no physical damage. Threatening him to stay back? Yeah, go ahead, all psychological again. Hitting him once or twice after he attacks you? That IS physical self-defence. But stabbing him a total of ELEVEN times? That's just completely ridiculous and excessive. Self-defence is one thing but this is something else. The kid should have AT LEAST been charged with manslaughter.

Also in the article it says:

"legally entitled to meet force with force, even deadly force."

Is that really how it works in America?

What that means is that if someone is threatening your life by attacking you, you may fight back and if you believe that said attacker is trying to take your life you may use deadly force in the name of self preservation. Another example of this is. Short version, 2 people broke into this woman's house, she locked herself in her bedroom with her child, called 911 and when the intruders got into the room she felt that her child was in danger so she shot and killed one of the intruders.
http://news.yahoo.com/okla-woman-shoots-kills-intruder-911-operators-okay-091106413.html

In short, no that's not how it works, its what this Judge believed. However the parents can appeal the process so the case isn't over

 

[Sunrider]

From an objective standpoint, murdering someone is going really far.

From my personal point of view as someone who went through the same shit as he did (as a lot of people have, I'm not claiming to be special), I'm happy he got his revenge. Call me twisted or whatever you like, but I regret not cornering my bullies when they were alone and scarring them for life.

 

[BrassButtons]

I cant side with the judge on this one, but then again I cant see this kid as being tried as an adult.
If the bully was actually in the act of beating this kid to death and he fought back and stabbed him 11 times because his own life was in danger then I could side 100% with the kid. That's self defense. As for stabbing someone who is just standing around, that's vigilantism. BFD (Big Fucking Difference)

Dylan started the fight by punching Jorge in the head. That is potentially lethal force. So Jorge wasn't just stabbing some guy who was standing around--his life had already been placed in jeopardy. It's unlikely that the bullies said "well, we hit him once, let's go home." The fight was going to continue, and it could easily have led to Jorge's death.

 

[Madara XIII]

HA! America! Kiddies are now stabbing each other before school. With no adult fucking supervision. What the fuck?

I agree, all stabbings should be done under adult supervision.

Someone could get hurt.

I have not laughed this hard is so long XD

Seriously though, the kid doesn't need to be punished under the fact it wasn't murder, but self defense.
and 11 times seems a bit excessive, but given his circumstances and the phrase "Got fed up" seems more than enough to give us the idea that this kid cracked.

He had a right to defend himself, nuff said.
Should he get off scott-free?
Not really, considering he did kill the dude.

Saavedra attempted to get away once, witnesses said. He then stabbed Dylan Nuno 12 times in the chest and abdomen. Two of the blows caused fatal wounds, including one that nicked his heart.

Hmmm this does give a bit more insight to the decisions he made, but as I said, there should be some form of punishment.
Maybe community service or something, but nothing that would make his actions seem criminal.

 

[Madara XIII]

A bully deserves everything they get. Its called Karma. You cause one person enough misery, and they will inevitably snap.

Call me old fashioned, but I still see no reason to wish death upon others.
The bully was killed, but out of self defense, so I can't say he didn't have it coming, but wishing such malicious fates upon someone seems a bit harsh.

Secondly the whole Karma thing is only true because people give it power. It's nothing more than some idea that revenge can be justified in certain occasions by either the person or whatever powers that be.
Then again considering my faith in anything "supernatural" is about a strong as a piece of plywood, then yeah I'll just stick to the real fact that if you keep agitating a hornets nest you're going to get stung.
That's fact. Not Karma.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

I admit 12 stabbings is over the top, but considering the situation, and reaction, he probably never thought it out. He probably just kept stabbing in fear, like when you start kicking wildly.

The kid had a knife, but I doubt this was pre-meditated. The kid was probably gone to flash it to the bully to scare him off to avoid being attacked.

Not to mention how he avoided the fight, if he really was planning on stabbing the bully he would've gone to the fight and tryed to stab the guy before even being struck.

But then in the moment of being attacked, he quickly without thinking struck with the knife.

So, I can agree with the judge. Really, the bully got what he deserved. He didn't deserve death, but when you constantly mess with someone, you're either gone to get away with it, they're gone to seek help or they're gone to snap and take you down.

 

[BrassButtons]

and 11 times seems a bit excessive

Based on what? How often do people defending themselves with a knife normally stab their assailant?

He had a right to defend himself, nuff said.
Should he get off scott-free?
Not really, considering he did kill the dude.

Hmmm this does give a bit more insight to the decisions he made, but as I said, there should be some form of punishment.
Maybe community service or something, but nothing that would make his actions seem criminal.

Why does the fact that someone died mean Jorge needs punishment? Why punish a non-criminal for their non-crime? What would the purpose be?

 

[stutheninja]

Three things, guys. One: It doesn't take long to stab eleven times, especially under stress. It probably lasted no more than ten or fifteen seconds, at the most. Try it for yourself, hold your hand as if you had a knife in it and see how quick you can 'stab' your pillow eleven times. Then factor in how much faster people move when they perceive their lives in danger, and there ya go. The kid likely stopped when he saw the bully wasn't attacking him anymore. Two: The court of law has ruled it a self defense. That's the end of it. Three: Get off your high horses, shit like this happens all around the world. The only reason half of you are moaning about it is because of the country it happened in.

Totally agreed, having never really wielded a knife in anger against someone, i can't personally attest to how fast i can stab someone, but i would venture to would be fairly quickly. plus the court already ruled on it, and no appeal is in the works, so its done and over with, this doesnt set a bullying precedent, it reinforces laws on self defense if anything.

 

[Oztington]

dipshit bully deserved it

 

[JWAN]

I cant side with the judge on this one, but then again I cant see this kid as being tried as an adult.
If the bully was actually in the act of beating this kid to death and he fought back and stabbed him 11 times because his own life was in danger then I could side 100% with the kid. That's self defense. As for stabbing someone who is just standing around, that's vigilantism. BFD (Big Fucking Difference)

Dylan started the fight by punching Jorge in the head. That is potentially lethal force. So Jorge wasn't just stabbing some guy who was standing around--his life had already been placed in jeopardy. It's unlikely that the bullies said "well, we hit him once, let's go home." The fight was going to continue, and it could easily have led to Jorge's death.

Yea I wasn't clear in my post. I did not write that as well as I thought I did.
He got punched in the head, which I will admit can be lethal, but at that moment it was once and the likelihood of it being lethal, is not likely. Getting hit once in the head with a fist, to me, does not mean that I can stab the guy 12 times and get away with it scot-free. Jorge could have done a lot of other things BEFORE he resorted to the knife. But that's my opinion. I really cannot make an accurate judgement because I wasn't the one being nailed in the head. While Dylan could have continued the confrontation and your right, he would have, then I can see the knife as a viable option. Stab away until the threat is no longer a threat because your life is in danger.
Now if Jorge did actually try to get away from the fight and attempted to not get involved in a physical confrontation in the first place (and that's what the judge settled on with the evidence) and he was forced into the fight by Dylan then I do agree with the judge. Jorge was clearly outmatched and he had little choice but to use the knife as a force multiplier. Not smart, but neither was picking on someone until they snap. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I condone the stabbing but there are sometimes when everyone feels like snapping and if someone keeps egging them on and they do they can hardly be held at complete fault for the entirety of the situation.

 

[Madara XIII]

and 11 times seems a bit excessive

Based on what? How often do people defending themselves with a knife normally stab their assailant?

He had a right to defend himself, nuff said.
Should he get off scott-free?
Not really, considering he did kill the dude.

Hmmm this does give a bit more insight to the decisions he made, but as I said, there should be some form of punishment.
Maybe community service or something, but nothing that would make his actions seem criminal.

Why does the fact that someone died mean Jorge needs punishment? Why punish a non-criminal for their non-crime? What would the purpose be?

I'm only trying to find some neutral ground here.
First off the kid was carrying the knife before hand making this pre-meditated.
Whether he was intending to intimidate, cause harm or kill he is not completely in the right.
That's why I said maybe community service or just send him to a psychiatrist to relieve whatever mental stress that may occurred.
Not saying he's a criminal.

 

[Sperium 3000]

If the bully is dead, his family is also to blame. When he started acting like a jackass and bully people for no good reason, he was putting himself in danger as much as the other kid. Good riddance, I say.

 

[Rottweiler]

I live in Anchorage, Alaska.

And honestly...I cannot come to grips with the 'logic' behind blaming the weapon for everything. Having a weapon means absolutely nothing. Having a weapon for *defense* is as much 'premeditation for murder' as the US having National Guard soldiers equals 'Invasion of Mexico'.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

This news report makes me happy in ways that are likely cause for me to be committed.This kid is my new hero

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Ignoring the other shakier parts of your post. I take offense to this one, bringing a knife does not instantly equate to pre-meditated murder.

He made the decision to carry a lethal weapon with the intent of using it against someone. There's your calm planning of the later murder that makes it pre-meditated.

As for taking offense: bite me. I don't subscribe to the ideas of pro-violence, weapon use and legalised murder, period.

Because the number of people on this planet capable of keeping a clear head when they are being assaulted is quite small.

Not true, it's something that's taught, not born in. It's something I learned during various training that kicks in during such situations. Kickboxing, krav maga, security guard certification, various situations I was involved in in when I was still a kid and later on professionally.

That's exactly why weapon possesion and use must at all times be forbidden. The worst possible combination is people with lethal weapons but without the sense to use them. And like you pointed out correctly: very few people have that sense. Perhaps even none at all have it.

Since you're a certified security guard, I assume you carry a baton, mace, possibly a taser, or maybe even a gun? Going by your logic of "weapon = pre-med murder" I make that same accusation of you. You are a murderer, your victim just hasn't presented themselves yet. Eventually, someone will attack you, or you will attack them, and you will kill them. In fact, as you are trained in martial arts, you do not require a weapon. Your body should be considered an implement of murder by your logic, as you, yourself, are a weapon.

For someone who's not pro-violence, you certainly went out of your way to be proficient at it, even going into a career field that may be required to be violent. Rather interesting conflict of character. No, you sound more like someone who doesn't want your victims having a means of defending themselves from an imminent threat.

While I agree with you that this guy sounds like an idiot toolbox, you have made the same error of logic in your rebuttal. While his "informed opinion" is ridiculous and should be treated as so (ridiculed), your claim that he will someday kill someone is fallacious. Statistically, security guards are unlikely to kill anyone, especially since in most instances they aren't legally empowered to TOUCH you, much less beat or restrain you. Don't sink to his logical cesspool. Make your argument all the more structured in order to make your point.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

"legally entitled to meet force with force, even deadly force."
Is that really how it works in America?

Yes.

Little Zangrif? I love that guy

I'm glad you reminded me that we named the last kid who made the news for bully-destroying.

I officially motion that we, as the internet, give this kid his own nerd-flavored victory nickname

[HEADING=2]Ender[/HEADING]

 

[Christopher Parker]

To quote some other guy in this thread: nothing of value was lost. It's assholes like him who cause 90% of teenage suicides. Would those of you demanding murder charges have preferred that outcome? Or hell, would you have preferred the kid to need rushing to hospital as he gets kicked repeatedly in the sides, breaking several ribs, rupturing his spleen and various other potentially life threatening injuries?

Could he have run away? No. He tried that, remember? Could he have kicked the bully in the balls? Sure, but guess what: I got into a fight in school and got punched in the balls about midway through. Didn't even feel it until ten minutes after it was all over and the adrenaline had worn off. It hurt like hell then, sure, but it didn't stop me finishing the fight.

One last thing: I'm not particularly strong or tough. If someone attacked me who I thought could handle himself, I'd be picking up a weapon; a fist fight wouldn't be fair because I'd be damn near guaranteed to lose. I'm not going to deliberately fight a losing battle based on some random guy's notion of a fair fight because that, quite frankly, is fucking stupid.

 

[Insanity72]

"No this is something they teach you in self defense classes."

Huh. wasn't aware they taught self-defense in school these days.

It's usually not an in class thing but an after school event.

So after getting the shit beat out of him and potentially being fatally wounded himself, he should have gone and got self defense classes? He should have just accepted what looked like it would be a brutal beating? Wonderful.

No i'm not saying that at all and haven't said he should have once. (But most people who have been bullied for long term do start self defense). I'm saying it's not hard to keep you cool in a fight and it's not hard to keep away from the particularly bad vital points.

Did you not read the article? The first blow was a punch to the back of the head, and by your own admission, that would cause him to not think properly, rendering him incapable of making the decision to only target non-vital areas, right?

Saavedra attempted to get away once

^This, he got punched, then ran, would have had enough time to collect his thoughts then proceeded to stab him.

So, he doesn't have self defense classes, but he would totally know, while being terrified, where the vitals were and how to avoid them?

Even before i did self defense classes i knew where the particularly bad vitals are, it's not hard to realise.

Bullshit.

^This. As mentioned above, I have tried quite a few things. 6 people outright assaulting me for the hell of it in the class room for instance.

There is a big difference between getting assaulted by 6 people compared to a single person, If i was surrounded by 6 people who were attempting to beat me to a bloody pulp i would have done the same thing as you.

Then again, unless you have actually been in a fight where you honestly thought you were going to die.

If you actually think you are going to die then of course you aren't going to be thinking straight, if the other person has a gun or is threatening you with a knife, or being grouped on by 6 people with the intent to harm you. But in a 1 v 1 conflict, it's a lot different.