279: Wussy RPG Girls

[aithilin]

It's the shameless stereotypying of genders that turns a lot of people off of video games. I've found that there's rarely a happy medium of well-written, well-characterized heroines to keep my interest in games.

Jade (Beyond Good and Evil) was awesome-- fought, took initiative, and wasn't the least bit passive about anything thrown at her-- but I'm hard-pressed to think of any others. As much as I loved Chrono Trigger, even Lucca was second string in the story, and she was the most realistically defined woman in the game. In the sequel, Kid and Harle are still passive-if-badass women who always take the back seat while the male lead drives. It's rarely any better than Western games that constantly have women limited to the realm of "distant/radio support" or "blatant boob fanservice."

It's not a "trend" in games to have a passive "heroine". It's the standard, and while it sells, and the promise of virtual sex and boobs can help promote games, then it stays the norm.

Excellent article.

 

[Meemaimoh]

Final Fantasy XIII conspicuously avoided giving Lightning even slightly feminine traits, perhaps for fear they would still carry that ancient connotation of weakness.

I hope you write more of these articles, lightning was a HORRIBLE character among other bad characters in a bad linear game that I wouldn't even call a final fantasy game.

That's an interesting point of view, coming from someone who makes it a point to boisterously advertise their gender.

Huh? I know nothing about Chrissyluky, though her avatar tells me that you are probably right, but I have to know: what train of thought did you follow to come to the conclusion that it had even the least bit to do with her ability to perceive the quality of a character?

I believe that the best way to write a female character is to simply put, just treat them as another characer, not T and A, not the infinite feminist movement leader, not as a damsel in distress, simply write for them as you would a man and aside from some new chest hair they should be fine.

Could not have said it better, except I would clarify that women should not be written as if they were men, merely approached as people like many male characters are.

But not all. No, not all. Most male characters are as poorly written as the female ones, if for different reasons. My main problem with JRPGs is that most of them seem to write not just females but all characters from a short list of stereotypical builds. That's lazy and incompetent writing.

(WRPGs do the same, mind you, just to a slightly lesser degree.)

 

[boholikeu]

Like it or not women do *tend* not to be as aggressive or combative as men, and to gravitate towards certain kinds of professions. Nobody holds guns to the head of young girls and says "play with dolls", "enjoy Barbie Horse Adventuers", and similar things despite what feminists might imply. Sure there are plenty of exceptions, tomboys and the like who are interested in all the same thing guys are, but there is some truth to the simple fact that where boys are interested in action, combat, and adventure, you have girls enjoying their "Disney Princess" products.

I think you're missing the point here. The characters the article is talking about aren't "wussy" because they are effeminate; they are wussy because they are pretty much the antithesis of everything a hero is supposed to be. Unless you're prepared to make the statement that girls are genetically predisposed against being heroic, your evidence doesn't really refute anything in the article.

I'm sad that people approach female characters, especially JRPG characters in such a dichotomous manner. A female character that commits the sin of displaying femininity must be crucified as a bad character. A female character that defies femininity is automatically a good character.

I don't really think that's the case here unless you consider self-sacrifice an aspect of femininity...

I must say I can pretty much disagree with most everything in the article. "In Japan...women were seen as inherently fragile and their 'heroism' was defined by their maidenly virtue..." Citation, please! I'm sorry, is this author talking about the Japan that exists in our world? Or is she talking about Europe? Or is she, in fact, talking about the Japan that Westerners think they know about but, in fact, don't have a clue about. For example, in the Tokugawa period, is she talking about samurai? Ainu? Peasants? Merchants? Imperial? Courtesan? Each strata of Japanese society had different expectations of their women, and absolutely NO class of women in Japan (in any era) were ever expected to let their "heroism" rest solely on their 'maidenly virtue'.

Also, her reference to the Onna Daigaku - really? One could make the same argument about the Bible being a guidebook for proper womanly behavior for the same time period in Europe, but historical study shows that although many people wrote about the Bible as an guide for proper behavior, the vast majority of the society didn't actually hold women to that ideal save through lip service. You'd think she only knows about Japanese culture from one or two books and not from actual historical study... If that's the case, then I challenge you to think about this: how accurate are Disney movies and Looney Tunes at portraying gender roles in the West? If you only read Shakespeare, what would your expectation be of women in Renaissance Padua? If you only read historical romance novels, how would you describe a typical woman of 19th century England? Did all women in the middle of the twentieth century really live and die by the Emily Post guide to etiquette?

Well, for what it's worth, I've taken a few college level courses on Japanese history here in Japan, and most of what the article has to say about women in medieval Japan matches what the professor said. I'm not saying you're wrong, but if you are going to criticize the article's sources at least provide some studies that back up your own claims.

 

[DreadfulSorry]

One female character (who I suppose you could place in the Princess archetype) that I actually LIKED was Yuna from FFX. When I first played the game I was just beginning high school, and suffered from almost as much negative self esteem as Yuna did. I could relate to her as a character, and the fact that she was still able to wield some pretty incredible power helped me feel a little better about my own weaknesses; it made me think, "Maybe there are some things that I'm great at too."
When I re-played FFX years later, after I had begun to find my place in the world and was beginning to leave behind my old, timid self, I found myself getting annoyed with Yuna. But then, I started to notice the significant growth her character experiences throughout the game, and I was able to appreciate it as almost mirroring my own.
I think in the end all women, just like men, have their strong and their weak sides. Alice and Lightning are two extremes that just don't do any women true justice, but characters like Yuna who experience believable growth and change ring truer than any of these archetypal female models.
(And let's just pretend FFX-2 never happened, shall we?)

 

[Vortigar]

To anyone putting up counter examples:
You're right, the matter isn't cut and dry.

But the article doesn't state that.

These girls (very rarely women, Quistis comes close and then you find out she's 19...) are supposed to be the heroine, as in the female hero, yet practically never actually do anything heroic. They're incentives, plot-devices and its always the guy that has to actually get the job done. That's why they're princesses.

Getting captured and generally victimized simply adds to the argument that they're not heroes but rather (as implied) victims. Whining a lot doesn't help matters either.

And these are also girls who set out to be adventurers. They're supposed to be dedicated to the goal of the party enough to leave their life behind and risk their lives on a daily basis. Yet they're usually about as far from adventurous as you can get.

The article then, explains this by stating that this is ingrained into Japanese culture. It's not that different in the West, but that doesn't change that its true. Its traditional to see the woman as subservient and this rings on in video games. Not the most innovative things I've ever heard but the comparison with the traditions of Kabuki, which largely invented the Japanese character stereotypes, are at least interesting.

 

[Scarlett81]

Long time reader first time poster, so hello everyone!

I am amazed no one has mentioned any of the original Phantasy Star games (I - IV). Maybe it's a generational thing?

For example, in PSI we have Alis Landale, who takes up her brother's cause, saves the planet and becomes Queen! And this was originally released on Sega Master system, dating it somewhere between, what, 1986 - 1988? Plus, Alis's characterization was not overally agressive and I don't believe she punched anyone the whole time.

PS2 is a bit weaker for references but I would say Shir and Anna, who are two supporting characters. Likewise, in PS3 many of the supporting females are strong in their own right, if not well developed. Lena, who helps you rescue the princess after springing you out of jail, Sairi (her daughter) and Kara were all strong female roles.

Finally, PSIV...I would argue Alys Bragwin is an exceptionally strong character. She can be a teeny bit overbearing sometimes but you can see she has a softer side. Also, some who played this excellent game may argue she falls into the "sacficial lamb" category because she dies saving the protagonist. Point, but she chooses to in a split second, not bemoaning her fate or being set up as some of "saviour of the universe". Rika, the next main female in the game has many strong points - she is smart, a strong fighter and despite her childlike qualities, matures well through the game.

Btw, many have brought up excellent points and I am enjoying the discussion.

 

[Amazon warrior]

So....

Need a competent proof-reader for Escapist articles? I edit in both British and American English. References on request.

 

[Fleaman]

Estelle is pretty much a wussy staff chick to a T; princess, heals, gets captured and used as a battery, is a nice person, and so on. But she plays the trope so straight that I find her endearing anyway, even when I did grumble and roll my eyes at the kidnapping arc. It helps that I think her voice work is so cute. (Male weeaboo speaking, if that provides context.)

Can't really stand Colette though. Actually, I don't know anyone who can. I feel like she embodies the archetype SO MUCH and is just SO sugary sweet that there's no way there isn't some kind of calculated intent behind it all. Like she must be deconstructing something

Also, she tanks like an Abrams. So, that's a bit of a departure.

 

[MrChainsawNinja]

I read the article all the way through and thought it was a rather interesting assessment of modern day JRPGs. It was successful at bringing to my attention how the "distressed damsel", in trope terms, is often tossed in one way or another in this genre.

My one complaint, however, is the poor representation of the character of Alice in your article and your criticism of the writers behind the story. I believe she becomes far stronger than anyone in the rest of the game. The curse you mention that causes her to suffer and "writhe" was taken on by her own will to spare the main character. Even so, she endures the pain and suffering and assists the party when fighting the final boss. She does not get set aside and put in the corner. She does not get removed from the party. She does not suffer from being a useless character in the game. Game mechanics-wise she is not weakened at all. In fact, she proves to be one of the more powerful characters to have in your party. She makes it quite apparent she possess traits of bravery and stoicism. She dismisses any concern the party has for her as she tells them that the time of reckoning is before them and that they must move on in order to save the world.

If you were to look deeper into the Shadow Hearts series as a whole all of the primary female characters could not be caught in a situation where they were entirely helpless. Sticking to the first game you reference, Margarette, the super spy, is completely self sufficient and proves to be intelligent. In the beginning she proves that she is completely independent, and when she joins the party it is often by her actions that the party escapes great peril.

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

Holy Crap! I njust realized the title picture was from Shadow Hearts! You have made my day!

OT: Preety interestin g read, there.

 

[A random person]

Japan still has a highly patriarchal society.

This is news to who now?

You'd be surprised, I've run into people who strongly believe it's feminized and that's why they're having a population crisis (one criticism was, seriously, "feminism makes population pyramids shaped like rockets." Because a pyramidal population structure totally won't have a dependency ratio the size of the sun).

Yeah, I've been to scary parts of the internet.

 

[Darkauthor81]

For me - JRPG's have been kind of stagnating in medieval Japanese culture for a long time and it's starting to look rather sad on their part. I'd welcome any recommendations for JRPG's that break the mould, but I've been let down before. I'd need to see a total overhaul before I'd even consider playing another JRPG game.

Play Odin Sphere if you haven't already. It's an action/rpg with 3 of the 5 playable characters are ass kicking women leading armies bent on domination and/or revenge. One of them is actually punished for treason by being forced to become a house wife. Play it on a ps3 though, not a ps2, if you can because on a ps2 the game is hampered by slow downs when too many characters are on screen. It also has gorgeous 2d graphics and a great story line where you play through the same period of time with each character and see the events unfold through their unique perspectives. Only after you've played them all do you get a complete picture of the events.

 

[Darkauthor81]

Japan still has a highly patriarchal society.

This is news to who now?

You'd be surprised, I've run into people who strongly believe it's feminized and that's why they're having a population crisis (one criticism was, seriously, "feminism makes population pyramids shaped like rockets." Because a pyramidal population structure totally won't have a dependency ratio the size of the sun).

Yeah, I've been to scary parts of the internet.

Feminism causes population decrease actually. Women who are empowered, get educated, and get jobs, usually don't opt to have more than 1 or 2 children as opposed to traditional women roles which are to obediently pump out as many babies as possible.

A society needs a birth rate of 2.5 to maintain their population numbers. The more femenized and educated a country becomes the more their number drops. Several European countries have birth rates below 2.5 and would have shrinking populations except for immigrants from third world countries bent on having armies of children. America has a stable population rate of 2.4. While we are very feminist we are lacking in the education side of things.

As feminism and education takes hold in more and more cultures, world population will start to (thankfully) decline from the fast approaching breaking point where we don't have the water to sustain ourselves.

ALSO! I have a Japanese female friend who was born and raised here in America. I'll tell you the horror story of her brush with her home country's culture.

Her parents moved to America when she was about 1 or 2 years old because her father was transferred to his company's American branch. They loved and embraced American culture and she was raised very much like any American child would be. Then one day they received word from her very traditionalist grandfather.

He didn't think she'd find a good husband in America. So he found her one and arranged for them to get married. Her betrothed was on his way to America to meet her and finalize the arrangement.

She loved her grandfather and did not want to offend him so she decided to agree to meet this man and act as American as possible so that he would become uninterested in her. So she interrupted his monologues about how promising his job was and how she would produce him sons with questions. She walked ahead of him instead of behind him. Ate with silverware. And cussed. Until eventually he was so disgusted with her he left. Her grandfather soon contacted her saying how ashamed he was of her. Again, she loved her grandfather and decided to go to Japan to apologize to him directly.

She didn't know to stay away from the subway trains during the afternoon rush as work let out. She was packed into a car like a sardine with her cousins who were giving her a tour around some part of Tokyo. One of the many business men she was pressed up against decided he wanted to grope her. She screamed and thrashed until the train stopped and let them off. Her cousins were furious with her for screaming and explained that when stuff like that happened you quietly endure it. It's not ladylike to cause a scene.

She now hates Japan and will never go back there.

To say Japan is a feminized country is so utterly moronic it gives me an aneurysm.

 

[boholikeu]

I'm sad that people approach female characters, especially JRPG characters in such a dichotomous manner. A female character that commits the sin of displaying femininity must be crucified as a bad character. A female character that defies femininity is automatically a good character.

I don't really think that's the case here unless you consider self-sacrifice an aspect of femininity...

No, not really. And that's not even close to what I was trying to say...I don't really feel like I want to go back and point it out again, I'll just ask you to re-read what I wrote.

Let me rephrase my point: just what about the article approaches female characters in the "dichotomous manner" that you described?

The article doesn't even talk about femininity. The "wussy" qualities it talks about are whining, depression, and self-sacrifice, not actual effeminate things like wearing dresses or liking shopping. Unless you consider the first three traits to be "displays of femininity" I really don't see how you can accuse the author of falling into the usual effeminate=bad butch=good dichotomy.

Also, for the record, I agree with you that the above dichotomy is way too common in debates like this, but you seem to use it as a catch-all argument against feminists in general (it's not). You bring it up in nearly every discussion about gender politics here on the Escapist, but half the time the other side isn't actually doing what you're accusing them of.

 

[MassiveGeek]

I approve of this article.

I think this is the reason why I like Heather in SH3 so much. She's not a wuss - but neither is she extremely bad ass. Heather's just a teenage girl who stumbled into a situation that is both frightening and insane, yet she refuses to go to her knees before it; she fights back. I dare say she's one of the best female heroine's I've ever seen.

 

[A random person]

snip for space

The implication I was making is that the people I've run into think said population decrease is a bad thing (fun fact: being on the verge of exceeding China population-wise isn't something for India to brag about). Also, I'd say their population drop has more to do with their baby boom than anything (because that much density really would put you off kids), and they serve more as an example of why you should keep your birth rates consistent than anything.

As for moronicness, welcome to internet branches of the men's rights movement.

 

[Stuntkid]

Quote from article:
"And just in case being weak and boring isn't compelling enough, JRPGs go through the trouble of making the her emotionally pathetic, too. Sometimes she was tortured in her childhood, like Yulie from Wild Arms 4 or Atoli from the .//hack series. And she frequently suffers from low self-esteem, fretting that she's a "burden" on the party or blaming herself for events that are beyond her control."

You know, Japan has done this not just to RPGs
*cough* Other M */cough*

 

[Jake Martinez]

Well this post has certainly generated a lot of responses!

One thing I would like to point out, even though its unlikely that it will get across to most people at this late stage, is that the author is slightly confusing the issue.

For example, there is a distinct difference between sexisim in regards to if the issue is that you do not have the ability to make a *choice* about your behavior or role in society and for instance, what those behaviors or roles are. The author, in making the parallel between a female choosing to exhibit culturally male behavior as the litmus test, is defining the issue as "unless the female can freely exhibit stereotypical enforced male behavior, the society in question is sexist." as if the behavior itself (and in many case this is not true...) is actually a *desired* behavior.

To reinforce the point, just look at the "working woman" phenomena of second wave feminism in the united states, where success was defined as a woman adopting culturally stereotypical male aspirations and behaviors in regards to the work place, that were (and are) in fact actually *damaging* behaviors for a person in question regardless of their gender. We've wised up a lot since then and have adopted better policies instead like flexible working hours and expectations around home/work life balance that instead of forcing women to act like men in order to have success, allow them to balance certain biological imperatives (like for instance, reproduction - hello, this is a big deal!) with being able to have success in the work place.

Finally, the really great thing about the new approach and way of thinking (and I hesitate to call it new, since it really is more mainstream first wave feminism, unpolluted by second and third wave gender/identity politics) is that the benefits carry on to everyone in society regardless of their gender or aspirations. Case in point - today, as a man, it's far more acceptable for me to take time off work to be with my kids or my family than it was 40 years ago. In fact, where I work, we actually get paid paternity leave, which is really an amazing concession if you think about it for the work place, and it was all brought about by instead of warping women to fit into the work place, modifying the workplace so that it enabled women to contribute more, while respecting that in a very basic and biological way, the genders are different.