A Group of 270 Scientists, Doctors, etc. Submit Open Letter to Spotify Regarding Joe Rogan (JRE)

Gergar12

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Then why do parents that are obese have their kids becoming obese far more often than parents that aren't obese? Parents feed kids food you know. And the vaccines are stopping infections?
In my opinion, I think if you have type 2 diabetes. You have a lack of self-control and love surgery foods too much to the detriment of all other food. There was a time when I ate lots of sweets, you know what I did to counter that, I dranked lots of hot water, and ate lots vegetables, and salads as well as fruits.

A ripped banana, mango or strawberry, or lettuce taste great and sometimes better than Oreos.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Not nearly the same thing, but i appreciate rhetorical contortionism.
Spread is still spread regardless of pathway. I'm not going to feel any less compassion for a non-immune covid patient as I do for a patient in the hospital because they drank a gallon of pop every day. Both can be avoided just the same.


Yeah, only two diseases have been effectively eradicated, though a large number more have been rendered non-issues in a lot of countries.

What's your point?
The point is to no longer have something be "a thing" vs eradicated. Covid is no longer a thing to worry about anymore than the flu if you have acquired immunity. I don't care about catching covid anymore, and my immune system gets rid of it faster than the flu or normal head cold.


Viruses are different, but that is a non-statement. I asked for the material differences that make Covid so uniquely impossible to handle, and was told that no other viruses are as contagious/ spread before they're symptomatic... and then I provided a laundry list of other viruses which ARE just as contagious (or more so), and which are symptomatic before they're symptomatic.

So what differences are you talking about?
And which of those viruses have we been able to keep localized and stop prior to vaccines being invented? I don't believe you ever replied to my last post from the other covid thread. You basically argued that something like measles could be keep localized and stopped from spreading without vaccines. Just like we couldn't stop measles from spreading or the flu from spreading, we can't stop covid from spreading when there's no vaccine (the vaccine has turned it into a cold). Trying to keep covid from mass spreading like say ebola or the 1st sars was basically impossible.

Do you know how many infectious diseases and viruses flare up in one country, then burn out or remain relatively localised without becoming a global pandemic? Its a lot. Including coronaviruses a lot more closely related to Covid-19 than the common cold. When the surrounding circumstances aren't so very, very useful for viral transmission and dispersal.

A lot of the death and devastation of the last 2 years was avoidable. The "inevitable" narrative exists solely to let people off the hook for the greed and complacency that turned a disaster into an utter worldwide catastrophe.
How many of those viruses that flare up and stay localized spread as fast as covid and are infectious PRIOR to symptoms? Not a single one.
Measles, bacterial meningitis, rubella, erythema, hepatitis A can all be infectious prior to symptoms. Several are extremely highly contagious.
How the fuck you gonna use measles of an example of something that was ever controlled prior to vaccination?
"It's only killing 4 - 10,000 people per day! Isn't that few enough!?"

No, oddly enough.
How many that are dying have acquired immunity?
 

Phoenixmgs

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Yes, and who is it on this forum ruining that proper messaging telling everyone they don't need to get vaccinated, if not you?



Firstly, Fauci did not have the advantage all the knowledge and that Joe Rogan did, nor the hindsight you did. Secondly, it's also deeply hypocritical coming from you who resists all lockdowns, masks, etc. Thirdly, again, you are trying to trash the reputations of public health experts trying to encourage vaccination and talking up kooks supporting snake oil: it's hardly proper messaging and education, is it?

Your entire view over this is whirl of incoherent, self-unaware complaints and criticisms.
I only ever have said those with natural immunity don't need to get vaxxed because that's what the data says. Also, if you don't think natural immunity is good enough, then by basic logic, you don't think the vax is good enough either because vaccines just create the same (not exactly the same obviously but close enough) immunity as getting the virus without the danger of getting the virus.

I fucking knew the virus was here in February, it was fucking obvious. I was decently worried about going to Galloping Ghost Arcade (biggest in America) and C2E2 convention the last or 2nd to last weekend of February 2020. But I did already know that it mainly affected older people and also figured it was the last chance to do such things for awhile. If I was 50+, I totally wouldn't have done either of those things. If I can infer those basic things, Fauci of all people should be able to as well. It's like getting mad at politicians for selling stock before the lockdowns and stuff because they had "insider" information (yes, politicians having insider info is a major issue but not for covid). If you didn't know that covid was coming (and soon), you weren't paying attention at all, the writing was on the walls.

I couldn't care less about the reputations of public health experts, I care about the truth and what actually makes sense. If Joe Rogan says something that is wrong I'll point it out just the same as Fauci. John Ioannidis, one of the 10 currently most cited scientists across all disciplines, was basically demonized for his covid stances and he has been proven right on most of his stances over time. And he said all of that without the power of hindsight. He was one of the first to point out that Theranos was bullshit. John Ioannidis is just a kook I guess...

Please show me a risk-benefit analysis that shows lockdowns actually saved more life because that doesn't exist. Show me a randomized trial that masks work because that doesn't exist.

Funny how you won't answer my question about which message cost more lives because it's Fauci's message that cost more lives than Rogan's and it ain't even fucking close.


In my opinion, I think if you have type 2 diabetes. You have a lack of self-control and love surgery foods too much to the detriment of all other food. There was a time when I ate lots of sweets, you know what I did to counter that, I dranked lots of hot water, and ate lots vegetables, and salads as well as fruits.

A ripped banana, mango or strawberry, or lettuce taste great and sometimes better than Oreos.
I grew up in a household that drank nothing but pop and when you grow up with something as 2nd nature as that that is actually really bad, it's hard to both realize that it's bad and also give it up. I think I gave up pop because of doctor that was on The Daily Show awhile back (at least 15 years and I can never find the interview when I try to search for it) that wrote a book about sugar being basically poison. If he's right, then I should definitely give up pop and if he's wrong and I give up pop, I at least give up probably like a 1,000 empty calories a day. I just gave up pop cold turkey after that, I still very occasionally have a pop but over time I enjoy it less and less every time I have one. The only sugar I drink regularly now is a 52 ouncer of the slightly sweet Gold Peak tea on the weekend to basically get a new jug to fill up with water for the week. I usually drink 2 52 ounce bottles of water a day.
 

MrCalavera

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Spread is still spread regardless of pathway. I'm not going to feel any less compassion for a non-immune covid patient as I do for a patient in the hospital because they drank a gallon of pop every day. Both can be avoided just the same.
No they fucking can't.
A guy sneezing on me can't infect me with Big Mac.
 

Phoenixmgs

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No they fucking can't.
A guy sneezing on me can't infect me with Big Mac.
The vaccine stops serious disease so it doesn't even matter if you get infected. You have to power to get the vaccine just like you have the power to not drink pop. Vaccinated spread it basically just as much so it doesn't matter if the guy that sneezed on you is vaccinated or not anyway.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Why oops? One doesn't need to be a medical doctor to know that misinformation is bad for society.
How would they know if the medical information said by a doctor is medical misinformation if they're not a medical doctor? There's been tons of instances of what is information later becomes misinformation and what starts out as misinformation becomes information. Discussion of said things is healthy and that's what Joe Rogan's show provides whether it's Dr. Malone or Dr. Gupta, I'm sure both said things that are wrong (I haven't listened to either of the episodes). Censorship is bad period. Telling people that they can't have something only makes them want it more, removing/banning of some information only makes the conspiracy stronger. What's better than removing something is other doctors explaining why said doctor is wrong with evidence and stronger arguments, not making them go away.
 
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bluegate

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How would they know if the medical information said by a doctor is medical misinformation if they're not a medical doctor? There's been tons of instances of what is information later becomes misinformation and what starts out as misinformation becomes information. Discussion of said things is healthy and that's what Joe Rogan's show provides whether it's Dr. Malone or Dr. Gupta, I'm sure both said things that are wrong (I haven't listened to either of the episodes). Censorship is bad period. Telling people that they can't have something only makes them want it more, removing/banning of some information only makes the conspiracy stronger. What's better than removing something is other doctors explaining why said doctor is wrong with evidence and stronger arguments, not making them go away.
Ha, funny coming from you.

We've seen time and again that evidence and stronger arguments don't mean shit to people.

Also, "Censorship is bad period", ha, no, just no.
 

Trunkage

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How would they know if the medical information said by a doctor is medical misinformation if they're not a medical doctor? There's been tons of instances of what is information later becomes misinformation and what starts out as misinformation becomes information. Discussion of said things is healthy and that's what Joe Rogan's show provides whether it's Dr. Malone or Dr. Gupta, I'm sure both said things that are wrong (I haven't listened to either of the episodes). Censorship is bad period. Telling people that they can't have something only makes them want it more, removing/banning of some information only makes the conspiracy stronger. What's better than removing something is other doctors explaining why said doctor is wrong with evidence and stronger arguments, not making them go away.
Just to be clear, Facebook and YouTube make it REAL easy to stay on their platform. You just have to not pretend anything is a miracle cure. Even the vaccine. Just say your vaccine, ass bleach or horse paste MAY help with Covid, instead of WILL

What might also help with your case is to not make up that you were made mRNA a thing. (He definitely helped, he didnt do the whole thing.) Or not pretending people are intellectually raping him. Or not threatening people because THEY partially helped the mRNA vaccine be a thing and they got the spotlight he clearly thinks he deserves. Or not still using a poorly written article to back up your point when it has been edited (after the researchers complained about their data being misidentified) to show that no longer supports your claim.

Or... not going on Bannon's podcast.

There's a of nots there and I didn't even get to the other guy
 
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Agema

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I only ever have said those with natural immunity don't need to get vaxxed because that's what the data says.

Also, if you don't think natural immunity is good enough, then by basic logic, you don't think the vax is good enough either because vaccines just create the same (not exactly the same obviously but close enough) immunity as getting the virus without the danger of getting the virus.
It is unclear how much protection any form of immunity (vaccine or covid infection) provides. Natural immunity may be more variable than the vaccine. There is evidence immunity weakens over time irrespective of source of immunity, plus that it varies by individual. It is thus a reasonable thing to ask people to vaccinate to take fewer chances. In particular, even if there is enough immunity to protect the individual, a stronger response should reduce that individual's infectiousness to others.

Secondly, good messaging means clarity and simplicity. "Get vaccinated" is the clearest and simplest it gets. Aside from genuine medical exemptions, the more you muddy the waters, the more it confuses and provides gaps for people to justify opting out.

I couldn't care less about the reputations of public health experts, I care about the truth and what actually makes sense.
Which is a shame considering you've spouted so much rampant bullshit over the last few years.

The reputations of public health experts are really important, because trust is essential to convincing people. It is not that Fauci is faultless, it is understanding that he has done his best to pass on evidence-based knowledge in good faith for the public good. Fauci is being heavily smeared because he offended against the cult of Trump for disagreeing with their orange god, by anti-government fanatics, and cranks with stupid ideas about what's good for people and think they know better. The result of this smear campaign is to greatly reduce the effectiveness of someone who (as far as I can see) is a well-meaning and responsible public servant.

Please show me a risk-benefit analysis that shows lockdowns actually saved more life because that doesn't exist.
What cost-benefit analyses actually show and what their limitations are has been pointed out to you multiple times. You don't read, you don't care. They're just another piece of flotsam you cling to whilst pretending the ship you've been sailing hasn't long since sunk.

Show me a randomized trial that masks work because that doesn't exist.
The mask argument is all but over, and you are on the losing side. Give it up. You've been moving goalposts and trying to discount evidence as it suits you for months, and it's just pathetic watching you squirm.

Funny how you won't answer my question about which message cost more lives
Because it's not usefully answerable. It's the pointless bleating of someone who doesn't understand how stuff works.

People would have died irrespective of what Fauci said: there is no counterfactual to work out how much difference what he said makes. Remembering here particularly that Fauci is a government advisor, and advisors do not decide policy. In terms of Joe Rogan, it is in practice impossible to separate out what effect he has from all the other societal inputs going into people's opinion.

My general stance though is that I have more respect for people who make the wrong decision because they don't have enough information to know better, and people who make the wrong decisions when they do have the information to know better. In which case, Fauci is leagues ahead of Rogan.
 

Silvanus

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The point is to no longer have something be "a thing" vs eradicated. Covid is no longer a thing to worry about anymore than the flu if you have acquired immunity. I don't care about catching covid anymore, and my immune system gets rid of it faster than the flu or normal head cold.
If you compare the life lost to Covid in a year to Flu, Covid usually beats it by about 4 to 5 times. This is just one of those tiresome old soundbites that gets thrown out time and again, and disproved time and again.

We already know you don't give a shit. You've made that abundantly clear over the last few months. Others, with elderly or vulnerable friends & relatives, probably feel differently.

And which of those viruses have we been able to keep localized and stop prior to vaccines being invented? I don't believe you ever replied to my last post from the other covid thread. You basically argued that something like measles could be keep localized and stopped from spreading without vaccines. Just like we couldn't stop measles from spreading or the flu from spreading, we can't stop covid from spreading when there's no vaccine (the vaccine has turned it into a cold). Trying to keep covid from mass spreading like say ebola or the 1st sars was basically impossible.
Obviously it is possible to put successful containment measures in place before a vaccine is developed. We locked down a lot of countries in ~March 2020 precisely for the purpose of buying time for a vaccine to be developed. And transmission plummeted. So we obviously can, and did, prevent spread before a vaccine.

...And then we went and removed those restrictions early, and lo-and-behold, transmission spiked again and got out of hand.

How many that are dying have acquired immunity?
"How many" isn't a good metric; we should be looking at death rates to accommodate for group sizes. And this depends hugely on circumstances country-to-country. In some, the unvaccinated are less than 1/10 as likely to die from it; in others, it's closer to 1/3.

Either way, plenty of people with some level of immunity (either from prior infection or from vaccination) are still dying. Many hundreds a day; thousands a week.
 

BrawlMan

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If you compare the life lost to Covid in a year to Flu, Covid usually beats it by about 4 to 5 times. This is just one of those tiresome old soundbites that gets thrown out time and again, and disproved time and again.
You forgot that you're talking to wannabe medical armchairs "expert". Nothing but shit comes out of his mouth. I don't even know why anyone bothers with him on the thread at this point.
 

Silvanus

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You forgot that you're talking to wannabe medical armchairs "expert". Nothing but shit comes out of his mouth. I don't even know why anyone bothers with him on the thread at this point.
At this point, as far as I'm concerned, I'm responding for the benefit of anyone else who might be reading along, who might otherwise be taken in by some of the claims if they were to go unchallenged.
 

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The Rogue Wolf

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At this point, as far as I'm concerned, I'm responding for the benefit of anyone else who might be reading along, who might otherwise be taken in by some of the claims if they were to go unchallenged.
I think it's blatantly obvious to anyone who reads back more than half a page that all of his arguments come from a core belief that we are all evil for not being willing to die for his convenience. I have him on ignore because it only makes me angry to experience his arrogance.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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It should be made clear to anyone refusing the vaccine at this point what the consequences will be if they get COVID and die: they will be ridiculed from beyond the grave, and if they are remembered, it will be as an idiot. If admitting they were wrong, duped by conmen and shysters, and reversing their opinion is too painful to them that they would rather risk dying, that's their decision. Let their deaths be on their own heads.

The willfully unvaccinated are far more likely to end up in the hospital with COVID complications. This is putting a strain on the medical system and harming people who need routine care. In a more fair world, we wouldn't be postponing surgeries for early stages of cancer to make room for the unvaccinated in hospitals.
If there is a mandate for anything, it should at least be that people who are medically able to get vaccinated and refuse, then wind up needing hospitalization from COVID, should be considered low priority over people with other life threatening conditions (although as Thaluikhain pointed out even those conditions should perhaps be more critically examined as well). Even now there simply isn’t enough space/personnel for everyone, and something’s got to give. My sister-in-law is a nurse dealing with this every shift yet. It isn’t just media spouting bs.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions

https://www.wxyz.com/news/coronavir...l-says-unvaccinated-patients-are-filling-beds

Doing what we can as a community by curbing the spread via responsible social practices, getting vaccinated, wearing masks when close contact indoors, etc. are collectively the best chance at mitigating the virus and seeing “normal” again.
 
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