A question for PC Gamers. Why all the hostility towards console gamers/gaming?
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Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory a budget "moe" J-RPG for niche crowd, like me. (hey that almost rhymes)Flowen said:
I have a counter question. Where are you seeing this? I almost never see actual hate here on the escapist which is one of the only gaming communities I regularly frequent.
Here on the escapist anyone expressing "hate" generally does so as an attempt at humor. The whole pc gaming master race is used as a joke and lets be honest anyone using it seriously is just very silly.
That said what genreally happens is PC gamers frustrations are confused for hatred for console gamers and consoles. To give an example, we get a lot of bad ports. Stupid things like narrow Field of view options (which can make some gamers sick after prolonged play), no mouse control in menus, and forced mouse acceleration can make some games unplayable on our platform. So we spend $20-60 for games that are unplayable (and in most cases that we cant get a refund for) due to lazy porting and many PC gamers (myself included) have just had enough of these horrible ports. This has been confused as hatred for consoles and console gamers but in my own case I dont really care about consoles and console gamers. I just want to play the games I buy on my system without any nonsense attached.
Now I still think that PC is a superior platform for a lot of reasons. Backwards compatibility, customizable hardware & software, cheaper games, a much larger variety of games, and many good free games being a few of them. However consoles have the pick up and play option as their major advantage. At the end of the day I want people to play what they want to play on whatever system they want to play it on. Its their money and I have no right to tell them how they should spend it
Here on the escapist anyone expressing "hate" generally does so as an attempt at humor. The whole pc gaming master race is used as a joke and lets be honest anyone using it seriously is just very silly.
That said what genreally happens is PC gamers frustrations are confused for hatred for console gamers and consoles. To give an example, we get a lot of bad ports. Stupid things like narrow Field of view options (which can make some gamers sick after prolonged play), no mouse control in menus, and forced mouse acceleration can make some games unplayable on our platform. So we spend $20-60 for games that are unplayable (and in most cases that we cant get a refund for) due to lazy porting and many PC gamers (myself included) have just had enough of these horrible ports. This has been confused as hatred for consoles and console gamers but in my own case I dont really care about consoles and console gamers. I just want to play the games I buy on my system without any nonsense attached.
Now I still think that PC is a superior platform for a lot of reasons. Backwards compatibility, customizable hardware & software, cheaper games, a much larger variety of games, and many good free games being a few of them. However consoles have the pick up and play option as their major advantage. At the end of the day I want people to play what they want to play on whatever system they want to play it on. Its their money and I have no right to tell them how they should spend it
I don't hate console games/gamers, I hate the inherently closed nature of consoles, the corporations behind them and the general ignorance that comes from people regarding technology in general.
PC gaming is objectively better due to it's vast options of peripherals, large library, game longevity, visuals and performance. But the moment you start to mention just how old and outdated some fanboys precious corporate game box is, they flip their shit and call you an elitist, because they don't actually know what that word means.
Basically Joccaren has the best answer.
PC gaming is objectively better due to it's vast options of peripherals, large library, game longevity, visuals and performance. But the moment you start to mention just how old and outdated some fanboys precious corporate game box is, they flip their shit and call you an elitist, because they don't actually know what that word means.
Basically Joccaren has the best answer.
As a PC gamer, I hold absolutely no hatred for consoles or their players. I just personally prefer PC to consoles.
I DO, however, hold a special little tumor of seething contempt in my heart for console gamers who go on and on about how PC gamers are arrogant, or about how PC gaming is dying.
I DO, however, hold a special little tumor of seething contempt in my heart for console gamers who go on and on about how PC gamers are arrogant, or about how PC gaming is dying.
I'm sorry but saying "PC gaming is objectively better" is just not true. In my case "vast options of peripherals" that i don't care about, "large library" that doesn't have any games that i'm interested in. So in the end i have pretty decent pc and still majority of games i buy i play on PS3, because PC doesn't have those games. For me PS3 is subjectively better platform for games. PC gaming would be objectively better if it had every console exclusive and was better hardware with mods and stuff, but as it stands now there is no objectively better platform for games.Waaghpowa said:
Excuse my hostility, but WHY ALL THE GODDAMN THREADS ABOUT THIS TOPIC IN PARTICULAR!?
Seriously, I answer this question like 5 times a month it seems.
One, it's about misconceptions. PC gaming is not that cocking hard, a 600 dollar rig will play any new game, anything more is just to make the pixels shinier. The rest is just basic maintenance you should be doing on any normal computer anyway.
Two, controls. Console controllers have a limited amount of buttons, so some things have to be contextual and annoying, like one button to leap out of cover and pick something up depending on the situation. This is absolutely unnecessary to do when porting a game over to PC because I do not have a shortage of keys. I'd rather have to remember more keys than occasionally miss the summon fiery apocalypse button because it shares a key with the contextual jump button. If two functions must share the same key, let me hit shift to decide which one I want at the time.
Three will rapidly disappear with this new console generation being based off the same basic architecture as modern PCs, but, the weird console architectures seriously screwed with the porting process, turning what could have been a weeks worth of work into months to do properly and it can be severely fucked up, turning a good game into an unplayable miasma in the worst case scenario.
Other issues like dumbing down and appealing to a wider audience effect the console and PC gamer the same. Also, the majority of my problems aren't things you do, merely you being catered to and the rest of us left to mod sense back into our games if we must. At it's heart, we're just kind of angry you don't realize that you are catered to, occasionally to our detriment.
Seriously, I answer this question like 5 times a month it seems.
One, it's about misconceptions. PC gaming is not that cocking hard, a 600 dollar rig will play any new game, anything more is just to make the pixels shinier. The rest is just basic maintenance you should be doing on any normal computer anyway.
Two, controls. Console controllers have a limited amount of buttons, so some things have to be contextual and annoying, like one button to leap out of cover and pick something up depending on the situation. This is absolutely unnecessary to do when porting a game over to PC because I do not have a shortage of keys. I'd rather have to remember more keys than occasionally miss the summon fiery apocalypse button because it shares a key with the contextual jump button. If two functions must share the same key, let me hit shift to decide which one I want at the time.
Three will rapidly disappear with this new console generation being based off the same basic architecture as modern PCs, but, the weird console architectures seriously screwed with the porting process, turning what could have been a weeks worth of work into months to do properly and it can be severely fucked up, turning a good game into an unplayable miasma in the worst case scenario.
Other issues like dumbing down and appealing to a wider audience effect the console and PC gamer the same. Also, the majority of my problems aren't things you do, merely you being catered to and the rest of us left to mod sense back into our games if we must. At it's heart, we're just kind of angry you don't realize that you are catered to, occasionally to our detriment.
I don't think it's hate for the more sane people, I only get confused and start asking questions when people start saying it's cheaper to play on console. Or the amazingly fun one where it's insisted you need to upgrade every 2 months or something.
Okay, so your start up cost is slightly higher on PC, the sales on the games however are insane and even a month or so later you can get a game for half price.
I'm not so much a "PC Gamer" as PC is something I rely on for many things, my art, games, media, staying in touch with friends, doing work, learning new things.
Thinking about it after typing that out, I think the reason others may give console players a hard time is very, very simple.
The PC is in the same boat as the rest of the consoles and it's a fight, for some reason people have to insist 'their platform is better'.
Do what makes you happy, PC works incredibly well for me and has saved me so much more money vs maintaining my previous 360.
Okay, so your start up cost is slightly higher on PC, the sales on the games however are insane and even a month or so later you can get a game for half price.
I'm not so much a "PC Gamer" as PC is something I rely on for many things, my art, games, media, staying in touch with friends, doing work, learning new things.
Thinking about it after typing that out, I think the reason others may give console players a hard time is very, very simple.
The PC is in the same boat as the rest of the consoles and it's a fight, for some reason people have to insist 'their platform is better'.
Do what makes you happy, PC works incredibly well for me and has saved me so much more money vs maintaining my previous 360.
While the rest of your post is great (I'd almost say absolutely brilliant), I had to quote out the above part, because that is simply the one point where you are drastically incorrect.Reise said:
While the first Crysis indeed did look great, that's only half of what it was renowned for. The other part it was renowned for was the fact that pretty much no PC at the time could run it at a consistent FPS at maximum settings. Crysis was put up on a pedastal, because it could be considered (too use a phrase by Yahtzee) 'a ritualistic trial by fire for their processor' (or rather, computers overall). It was the game pretty much everyone used to benchmark their gaming PC's, hence the 'Can it play crysis' joke.
However, the reason for this isn't that Crysis was a graphical marvel that many mistakingly think it is. Yes it looked great and had a lot of impressive effects (lens flares, sunshafts), but the truth of the matter was that the engine was in fact horribly optimized. Pretty much all of the features in their engine was put in on the premise that 'If you have the PC to run this, it will be cool', with little thought being given to any actual performance budget.
And this is where Crysis 2 - running on the CryEngine 3 - actually came in with improvement. You said something very incorrect in your post which was the Crysis 2 looked inferior to Crysis 1. While it did have some shortcomings compared to the original such as lower texture resolutions (which was later retified) and an initial lack of DX11 features, it still looked better. Anyone who says otherwise needs to go back, play both games and notice the differences. The LOD handling in CryEngine 3 is miles better than in CryEngine 2 (especially in regards to objects who completely fade out once you get some distance from them), and the same goes for the weather effects and color grading (which was far more vibrant on CryEngine 3). Most importantly, however, the engine was way better optimized than its predecessor, and ran well even on midrange PC's while still looking good. Try churning the settings for the original Crysis to the lowest, and see how it looks (hint: it basically looks like crap).
The reason that Crysis 2 got so much heat from PC gamers was that the customization options was removed and so was the DX11 features (as well as other few minor quips like the texture resolution i mentioned earlier). Not only was the graphic settings beyond resolution, AA, VSYNC and 3D reduces to 3 options (named Hardcore, Advanced, Gamer), but the option to tweak these settings in the console was also removed. This infuriated a lot of people, which is understandable, because the original crysis could be tweaked in a million ways, and there are actually some great configs out there for the first crysis that can push the settings beyond the maximum in the options menu, or even make the game run better on low-end PC's without making it look totally like the 'crap' i mentioned in the end of the last paragraph. But again, these things were all brought back in a later patch, and the hate died down.
But the TL/DR point of all this drivel i just spouted is that Crysis 2 and Crysis 3 following it is actually one of the games that has benefitted from being designed for consoles too. It made them finally realize that an engine doesn't need to just look impressive and have a lot of impressive features, but it also needs to run well at the same time, which the original failed at. Now the games only needs to make up for all of the other shortcomings they have (like the terrible storytelling), but at least they ended up with a solid engine which they even licence out, so that we can get a lot of great looking games that run well, both for console and PC's
One thing, eventually, through the power of emulation and the nature of abandonware, you will be able to play PS3 exclusives on the PC(can already play PS2 games there, I think, the major titles in the very least).Arina Love said:
That being said, exclusives are the one best reason to choose any platform. I like RTS games, and consoles are just generally shit to play RTS games on. All the other freedom like modding is just icing on the cake.
Geez, another one.
#Q: Console games are dumber: simplified for the controls, for the technically inept,
#W: Consoles obstruct technical implementation, development
#E: Control differences: not a matter of preference but a large contributor to market division
#R: Consoles are closed platforms: reduced lack of ownership, required knowledge (see #Q)
#T: The term "PC Gamer" carries, or used to carry, an additional meaning of being a hardware enthusiast.
#Y: We don't care about your games, we don't care about your hardware, we don't care about you, because you lack knowledge in both.
In short - hardware (and software) proficiency plays a bigger part than you consolers think. You call it elitism, we call it not being in the 6th grade at 16.
GTAV does look like shit - good art though - because it's crammed onto a decade old hardware system.
#Q: Console games are dumber: simplified for the controls, for the technically inept,
#W: Consoles obstruct technical implementation, development
#E: Control differences: not a matter of preference but a large contributor to market division
#R: Consoles are closed platforms: reduced lack of ownership, required knowledge (see #Q)
#T: The term "PC Gamer" carries, or used to carry, an additional meaning of being a hardware enthusiast.
#Y: We don't care about your games, we don't care about your hardware, we don't care about you, because you lack knowledge in both.
In short - hardware (and software) proficiency plays a bigger part than you consolers think. You call it elitism, we call it not being in the 6th grade at 16.
GTAV does look like shit - good art though - because it's crammed onto a decade old hardware system.
Speaking as someone who grew up playing games on home computers and as someone who used to program games for home computers, I have no clue. I've seen this as well and it's really just silly. If I had to guess I'd say that it's maybe because of the shift of attention in recent years. Back in the day it used to be that the personal computer was where all the really great games were at. All the really note worthy developers made their games on the PC first then maybe dropped them to console later. But these days, consoles seem to get the most attention from everyone.ParsonOSX said:
It's also important to note that PC gaming started many of the genres that are the most popular now even in console gaming. Y'know all your Calls of Duty and Modern Warfares can trace their roots back to Counter-Strike a mod of Half-Life which was an overhaul of the Quake 2 engine which was basically a big upgrade from the game DOOM, which came from Wolf3D. All PC games. There are other examples but I chose the first person shooter because it's the most popular.
Of coarse, none of this really matters. It's just plain silly to resent someone because of the type of game they like to play. I was there at the ground floor when personal computers were just beginning to be a "thing" but I'm just fine with people playing whatever games they wanna play.
I mean, geez, what's next? Am I gonna walk into a bar one day to hear "Curse those dart-playing jerks! We only play pool around THESE parts!".
Arina Love said:
Do I need to tell you what the definition of objective is? You seem to know what subjective means. What you prefer does not necessarily mean better nor worse. If you prefer something, then it means it's better subjectively, meaning pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual: a subjective evaluation.
Objective means: not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.
PC gaming is objectively because of the shear amount of freedom and options it allows. Just because you prefer something else, doesn't make the statement false, nor you for having that preference.
A 8 oz porterhouse steak is objectively better than a whopper from Burger King, but I prefer to have the whopper from time to time.
A Lamborghini is objectively better than my Mazda 3 sedan, but it doesn't stop me from liking it.
Need I go on?
Yeh emulation is great, playing Xenoblade in 1080p is one of the reasons i said to myself "yes that 1000$ on a PC is money well spent". Exclusives is only thing i look when buying a hardware everything else is irrelevant to me, if PC will emulate PS4 i will buy rig that will handle PS4 emulation, but until then i'm looking forward to new console gen and fresh exclusive.WouldYouKindly said:
http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirated-games-of-2011-111230/Mcoffey said:
PC's have roughly 3 times the piracy rate as described in that article.
And from page 4 of this bit on piracy; http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_4.html
"Piracy of the PC versions is orders of magnitude above that of the console versions in the cases we examined. For example Call of Duty 4 has five times as many downloads on the PC version as it does on the XBox 360 and PS3 versions combined."
Even the big console release is getting PC-pirated way more. Don't kid yourself. The piracy is not irrelevant. Nobody is trying to stop piracy, but delaying the PC release is a common-sense way to help diminish it. PC is where most of the piracy is and I'm glad GTA V is delaying it even if I don't get to play it for a few months. It'll get a few more people to cough up at the very least. PC is the better platform, but PC gamers are causing most of the piracy problems themselves.
Because Microsoft, Sony and even Nintendo pay developers and publishers more money than a single person could hope to see in their lifetime, for an exclusive title. They stifle creativity just so they can say "You can only play 'X' on our console and none other!"
That shear amount of freedom and options it allows benefit is subjective, gaming platform all about what games it can play everything else is irrelevant. Fact is PC doesn't have games some people want to play, theretofore making it inferior platform for these people.Waaghpowa said:
from that same article; "Console games are much harder to pirate than PC versions, as the console hardware needs to be modified."Desert Punk said:
If I were Rockstar I'd be doing the same thing.
PCs are better for most things, which is why I run a PC exlusively and forget about the consoles, but piracy isn't one of those things.
Who are you talking about? I know tons of guys who love their "PC" but they sure as hell can't afford to go around buying consoles. I suppose it's different depending on where you live, though. But I'm still trying to save up for a GTX 650 card just so I can play freaking Space Hulk and Natural Selection 2. I'm sure as heck not gonna waste my money on a PS4, or whatever, when my computer already does everything that I would want from a console even without the upgrade.T_ConX said:
I do, however, agree with you on one thing. This us and them attitude is just absurd. I don't know anyone (outside of internet assdom) who is all like "PC gaming pride. WOOO!". If I had the money to burn on a new console as well as upgrades for my machine, I would spend that money in a heartbeat and be happy about it.